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[Redpyramidhead]

Originally Posted by Kaena

You know Mark i'm somewhat disappointed in you..after all that whole chat we had that day when i asked you to call..well you know who..and after all you said to me, i thought you would post something more intelligent or more of an adult..but now you're turning this subject into a depression issue and that's not what this is about..this is about the drug use..and about that "normal state"..maybe there isn't one..i sure as hell don't know what it is as well..but i don't turn my life worse by using drugs.

Life is full of dissapointments. But I don't feel you shoud be dissappointed in me. Our common friend that we were both worried about that night n that i promised you I would call is an abuser of a very hardcore drug. I promised I would call not just for you but for me as well becaue I love this guy like a bro. So yes, I talked to him about it. I do not feel like a hypocrite for smoking marijuana because I do not believe marijuana to be as horrible as cocaine. Sure, if one abuses marijuana ot the extent it does nothing for them anymore, it may act as a gateway drug to something such as cocaine or acid or whatever. But, I trust my ability to use marijuana in moderation. I have for a little over a year now and have not increased my overall frequency in usage. I know that if I use it more than a couple instances a month it causes negative effects on me and I do not enjoy it as much.

Native Americans used marijuana in rituals. They were very spiritually balanced people who were able to limit their use to special occasions. I do not claim to be as spiritually balanced as a culture who was raised that way in a completely different environment or anywhere near for that matter, but I understand that it is possible for me to reach that point some day. I will be criticized for my very liberal beliefs abotu weed. I just hope I have not alienated friends this way. But, I am not going to keep it to myself.

_RED_ stuff

[merylsilverburg]

Originally Posted by Kaena

I honestly would like to know how is it that a person can have more fun being completly out of her/himself and have much more fun than being in a "normal" state..where you can be aware of everything..in my opinion that's what makes things fun..i honestly don't understand..and i do try to but it just doesn't make sense.

Like what goodman said, being out of a person's normal state of self gives them a release; because of the affect of the drug/drink, it can alter their personality or make them feel good. So, that would be their interpretation of "fun." They feel they can have a good time only if their mind/body feels like its having a good time too...for some, having their mental state in "awareness mode" can disrupt whatever makes them feel like they're having fun. I don't get it either, but I suppose for those of us who never tried it, will never quite "get it."

Oh and WOW..Meryl...WOW..honestly i was trying so hard to make people understand my point but i didn't want to go into detailed situations but you...wow..you almost made me cry just for reading some of the situations you pointed out in your firt post..cause it is true what you said, in most cases that's what happens people just turn a problem into a huge one..just for using drugs..and that whole living like you're 30 since you're 12..just so you know..you're not alone on that..i too had to do go through the same thing..and i still try to enjoy life..and i did NOT turn into drugs or drinking..sure i get depressed with most of my problems..but in the end, i end up a lot more happier person just because i'm strong enough to go through everything without making my life even worse by using drugs.

Oh, sorry...I didn't mean to mention those situations as a means to make a person cry, I was just using them as examples. But see, that's exactly what I was talking about. A person who has problems shouldn't make their lives even worse by using drugs.

Originally Posted by Redpyramidhead

*Ahem* Whats this "normal state* I keep hearing about? Is there even such a thing? What's this magical normal state in which it is supposedly easier to deal with your problems more easily? I can tell you right now I have known many states in my life from simply living it and by listening to music or perhaps indulging in the occasional weed, but I have never in my entire life known a "normal mental state* in which it is best to deal with my problems.

Okay, perhaps we all shouldn't have used "normal state"...maybe we should've used "the state of being aware/alert of one's surroundings" instead. We all didn't think there would be a person on here who would take the word "normal state" so literally.

Originally Posted by Redpyramidhead

SO many of us who do not use hardcore drugs like to live under the false security that there is only one reality and we will only have to deal with that one "normal state" as long as we don't do drugs. Whatever.

Hey, no one here said that people who don't do drugs only rely on one state of reality or one state being only. There are people out there who don't do drugs, but use other methods as a way to "escape" or "submerge themselves into their alter state of self." These methods are much safer and harmless than sniffing crack or something.

Originally Posted by Redpyramidhead

Reality is overrated by people who use it as a "familiar face" to greet in the morning. But you'll never defeat your depression that way.

Sure, I agree with what you said, that reality is overrated...but I would much prefer to have a somewhat sense of reality within me instead of living in "La-La-Land" all the time and being such a total dreamer that you appear to be a flake and lunkhead all the time. And excuse me, but people like us use reality as a "familiar face" to greet in the morning? Hmm, well, maybe because some of us live in the real world and realize that we do live in the real world, so that's why we act this way? Not because we use it as an excuse or whatever you're saying/implying.
As for the depression thing, again, yeah I agree with you. If a person is completely realistic, their depression will never go away because it'll be harder for them to focus on fun and light thoughts. But, it seems that what you're saying is that all people who have depression ought to just go out and get high in order to relieve their sense of reality. This is what I was arguing against; you have temporary relief, but when reality comes back, you're gonna hit rock-bottom because reality will look like a mega shithole...even more than it was before. Because people who are depressed want to be happy and if that drug gives them happiness, they're gonna get addicted and keep wanting it more and more...to maintain that happiness (or false happiness, which is a better word). I mean, prozac and other depression medications already do this to people (makes them addicted or give them strange thoughts....the therapist I went to recently, prescribed me some kind of prozac and told me, "If you start getting thoughts of suicide, you must call me immediately." WTF?) so why give them even worse illegal drugs that will screw them up even worse?

[Faile]

All this talk of getting old
It's getting me down my love
Like a cat in a bag, waiting to drown
This time I'm coming down

And I hope you're thinking of me
As you lay down on your side
Now the drugs don't work
They just make you worse
But I know I'll see your face again

Ah, the Verve. They said it best.

[trunks69420]

Originally Posted by Faile

All this talk of getting old
It's getting me down my love
Like a cat in a bag, waiting to drown
This time I'm coming down

And I hope you're thinking of me
As you lay down on your side
Now the drugs don't work
They just make you worse
But I know I'll see your face again

Ah, the Verve. They said it best.

wow... i never even heard that song... brilliant lyrics.... wow...

i have nothing more to say on the "drug" subject.... though i do respect everyone for posting on this thread.. cause a lot of people like to think drugs are those naughty things you learned about in school.. but most everyone here has a better reality of what causes use... and why... and.. oh shit... i dont even care.. heh... later all

[LrdAlucard]

Originally Posted by trunks69420

wow... i never even heard that song... brilliant lyrics.... wow...

i have nothing more to say on the "drug" subject.... though i do respect everyone for posting on this thread.. cause a lot of people like to think drugs are those naughty things you learned about in school.. but most everyone here has a better reality of what causes use... and why... and.. oh shit... i dont even care.. heh... later all

oh, but i dont think u do. and if u dont, then u ought to change your attitude dude

[tempted]

Originally Posted by Redpyramidhead

Life is full of dissapointments. But I don't feel you shoud be dissappointed in me. Our common friend that we were both worried about that night n that i promised you I would call is an abuser of a very hardcore drug. I promised I would call not just for you but for me as well becaue I love this guy like a bro. So yes, I talked to him about it. I do not feel like a hypocrite for smoking marijuana because I do not believe marijuana to be as horrible as cocaine. Sure, if one abuses marijuana ot the extent it does nothing for them anymore, it may act as a gateway drug to something such as cocaine or acid or whatever. But, I trust my ability to use marijuana in moderation. I have for a little over a year now and have not increased my overall frequency in usage. I know that if I use it more than a couple instances a month it causes negative effects on me and I do not enjoy it as much.

.....

_RED_ stuff

I think you misunderstood what i was trying to say when i said i got disappointed in you..i know you called him and that you love him and worry about him probably just as much as me..or maybe even more than me..but what you told me on our chat that day is nothing compared to what you said on your first post here..let me quote you on that day..

"good luck trying to have a life where you dont have to go threw hard times.... i mean come on thats impossible.... we will all feel like shit for periods of time throughout our lives but the trick is sticking around for the good parts... there are no shortcuts through the tough parts by using drugs, all that does is make the hard times worse"

..see the diference?!...this is only a tiny part of what you said but you seemed, imo, much more of a responsible person that day..than well, here..plus i didn't call you an hypocrite for using marijuana..actually i didn't called you anything..cause i know you do use it..but the thing is i think you actually use it with moderation..and at least you don't say it's to "escape" your problems or to be "cool" among your "friends"..so i wouldn't say you're an drug addict..so nothing of what we said here aplies to you..plus because you're simply weird...j/k ..lol

Originally Posted by merylsilverburg

Oh, sorry...I didn't mean to mention those situations as a means to make a person cry, I was just using them as examples.

lol..you don't need to apologize..i almost cried..but i didn't..only because you gave an example of something that came to my knowledge not more than a few days ago..so when i read your post it made me think about how can someone do drugs over something so stupid like that.

Originally Posted by trunks69420

i have nothing more to say on the "drug" subject.... though i do respect everyone for posting on this thread.. cause a lot of people like to think drugs are those naughty things you learned about in school.. but most everyone here has a better reality of what causes use... and why... and.. oh shit... i dont even care.. heh... later all

i said i wasn't going to comment on your posts in this thread again..but what is it really don't you don't care?!..cause this post of yours just stomped me..completely..i have no idea of what you were trying to say with it and i honestly would like to know.

[happy_doughnut]

*man, I didn't make it to math class. Oh well. *

I think that Red pointed out something that was rather intelligent of him, Kaena.

When you started talking about this "normal state," I started talking about it, too as did other people without actually questioning what was meant by the term. So I would have to disagree with your statement in regards to Red's "unintelligent" post.

There is no difinitive statement for what a "normal state of mind" is, I think. However, I gather that most take it to be a state of mind in which we have control over ourselves and our actions. Like say, if you're under the influence of any substance that can alter your "mind," you don't have full control over yourself because that alteration of the mind prompts you to do things you would most likely not do otherwise. Thus, when under the influence of substances, the substances themselves are the ones "controlling" you, as they are predominatly controlling the way you think and feel for the period of time in which they have effect on you.
So thus, by normal I think me mean that state of mind in which we are not under the influence of any outside substances that have the ability to alter our own selves, but rather are in a state of mind in which we can consciously make our own derrivative dicisions, altering substances excluded.

I'm not sure if Kaena and the others have this take on it, but I do.

Anyway, eek! Some of you are making me look like baddy. *mena cries*

No, guys... I'm not attacking anyone.

Maybe I'm not making myself clear, though.

I am one to believe that drugs, like any other things people use and abuse to flee away from problems, are a bad thing. Why? Simply because I believe and know that by finding some sort of temporary escape route I will not solve the problems I am trying to get away from; I know that once I return from my temporary escape, they will be there still, beckoning and dawning on me like they were in the first place. Now, even though this short "escape" served as a leeway in time to "forget" the things going on, I personally think that it is not worth it. Yes, I understand that sometimes things get so rough that even the most trite of escapes is better than facing real problems head-first. However, I think that whilst this may have some truth in it, upon doing so, one has generated another problem, one that is more difficult to repair: the deterioration of health.

This may sound like a preaching heard by anti-drug people, but it isn't. Just think about it: Suppose you wake up one morning and believe that the world is just about to cave on you. Your feet are heavy; your whole body is lagging. You feel exhausted and disillusioned; you have a rain cloud over your head. Everyone around you seems so happy and you want to be happy just like them, but you can't because everything is just so terribly wrong. You get out of bed and look at yourself in the mirror, but you don't see yourself - you see an ugly being that shouldn't even be living. The sun is comming in from the outside and into your room... that bothers you. You just want to curl up in your bed and hide under your sheets; you have no want to face the world.

I'm sure that, taking of giving a bit, everyone has felt something like this at one point or another. Sometimes, this pensive and depressed mood grows so much that we are literally desperate for something that will make it go away. One just wishes it would disappear so that we could continue to live life happily and merrily, no? Of course we would. Some of us, our of desperateness, turn to that little pill that will give up a temporary rush. During this time, we will experience inmense happiness and glee. In this state, there will be nothing bad; everything is great. It's as if that little magic pill (or powder) just made it go away. We have finally found a cure; the very one we wanted. But then... the effects ware off, and what is left to be confronted? The original problem, plus a new health problem (if this is the method we use on a regular basis).

So, is this momentary getaway worth it? I don't think so.

I think that this is the opinion Kaena, meryl and myself have: it's not worth it, no matter how you look at it.

However, all that I said before was not my opinion, but factual reasons. It is a fact that people use drugs to get away from their problems; it is not my opinion. That is what I meant by "close mindedness:" that what we believe are our opinions and that they are welcome and plausible, but just because we think these people to be weak of mind and of heart does not mean that factual evidence/reasons, like that of people using drugs are an escape, is to be denied.

We have to take this into consideration and acknowledge it, even if we don't agree with it. By knowing and comprehending this, we may be even more capable of helping those that need it.

And one last note: What Infernal said was right on. People that die at the hands of drugs shouldn't be pitied, imo. I know I don't. Like he said, there is something wrong with these people before they begin to use drugs and they know it. But what do they do? They weaken and turn to the easy way out, even though they know that there are other ways to go about the problem. I personally don't pity or feel sad for them because as far as I'm concerned, they brought onto themselves and desserve no lament of mine. Plus, that guy in the link was ridiculous and just plain idiotic.

So, kids: don't do drugs - they are pety. Everyone has problems... everyone. It is a part of life and we can't be stomped by them; we must overcome them. So stay away from them and be a big boy: face problems straight and with a high head... you'll see the victor will be you.

You want a rush, you say? Go drink soda.

[tempted]

Originally Posted by happy_doughnut

I think that Red pointed out something that was rather intelligent of him, Kaena.

Maybe i shouldn't have said "more intelligent"..what i meant to say was, and as you probably already read in my post above, that on a chat i had with him he seemed more responsible with what he was saying about drugs..not about the whole "normal state"..cause well i do know that there isn't such thing as "normal state".

Originally Posted by happy_doughnut

However, I gather that most take it to be a state of mind in which we have control over ourselves and our actions. Like say, if you're under the influence of any substance that can alter your "mind," you don't have full control over yourself because that alteration of the mind prompts you to do things you would most likely not do otherwise. Thus, when under the influence of substances, the substances themselves are the ones "controlling" you, as they are predominatly controlling the way you think and feel for the period of time in which they have effect on you.
So thus, by normal I think me mean that state of mind in which we are not under the influence of any outside substances that have the ability to alter our own selves, but rather are in a state of mind in which we can consciously make our own derrivative dicisions, altering substances excluded.
I'm not sure if Kaena and the others have this take on it, but I do. ...

Yes that's pretty much it

Originally Posted by happy_doughnut

...I think that this is the opinion Kaena, meryl and myself have: it's not worth it, no matter how you look at it.

lol..we've been going around this and it seems that yes, we do think the same way about it.

Originally Posted by happy_doughnut

...It is a fact that people use drugs to get away from their problems..

Yes it is a fact..you're right..but i just don't get it..so maybe i am close minded.

[Reid]

There's so much that can be said on this subject and I know that I'm going to forget things but I'll try to have some sort of say.

My position on drugs is pretty positive -- the real issue is the distinction that needs to be made in this argument between what drugs we're referring to. There's a gigantic world of difference between all sorts of different narcotics, and I'm referring to the illegal ones.

I drink and smoke marijuana fairly regularly and neither of these things has ever got in the way of living a "real life". Now, I drink only on the weekends and when the day's work has been done (albeit a few slips here and there as it comes with living in university residence). To me, the legal option, alcohol, always scares me a bit more than the illegal marijuana.

I smoke now and then but just like drinking, only when I know it's not going to interfere with anything else that will take priority and could cause problems if neglected.

I do it not as an escape but instead as a method of experiencing reality in a different way. You can understand things in completely different ways when you're high -- see parts of life that normally are not obvious and overall just get a different look at what we take at face value every day. I don't see this as anything destructive if it's used in moderation. Obviously, problems arise if it's taken out of hand but that's similar to a lot of things in life.

I also smoke marijuana for other reasons as well. I have pretty severe acid reflux and smoking a joint, sometimes not enough to even get any real intoxicating effect is pretty immediately effective. I don't do this regularly, but moreso as something that almost always works when it's really painful. I also had insomnia here and there probably due to stress and a few nights here and there I'd smoke a bit to help me get to sleep which is a much better option that the more addictive over the counter aids. This also, I don't do often because I don't like to become reliant on anything as a quick fix.

Personally, I've been using this drug here and there for a long time and it's never presented a problem. I also have friends, however, who smoke so much grass that it interferes with daily activities. But they're the same kind of people who would be wasting time doing something else like playing videogames or watching movies excessively and neglecting important things in that respect if they didn't smoke.

Harder drugs I disagree with quite a bit though. Especially any that are highly habit forming. I won't touch any chemicals but I know many people who do and end up with addictions that cost them a lot physically and financially. When quite a few of my close friends started doing coke a lot I opted out of it and have since watched many of them become pretty useless as a result.

I don't know what else to cover here. All I can say for now is that it's important to look at the different sides of what we're talking about and not make a huge generalization about "drugs". They're not all the same and they cannot be treated as such.

[Gadzoox]

This is my opinion, and I'm allowed to state it and I'm not directing it at anyone so please don't take it personally!
----

I agree that illegal drugs are for escapists. It's a horrible trap that people get caught in. My brother is caught up in it and has been for 10 years now. I view him as weak because he can't handle life and needs some outside source to make it go away, even though it really ust makes it worse in the end. It's literally taken over his life and made him stupid (he used to be smart), poor, and sent him on the wrong path of life.

I used to take marijuana, and I'm not proud of it. I was weak and wanted acceptance and to escape reality. Luckily I was able to get out of it, and now I'm loving life now more than ever. I have drawing, and family, and friends to help me with life, and they work better than any drug could ever do.

----
Again, this is my opinion, and I'm allowed to state it and I'm not directing it at anyone so please don't take it personally!

I probably wont even open this thread again once I've typed this!

[Redpyramidhead]

Hey, no one here said that people who don't do drugs only rely on one state of reality or one state being only. There are people out there who don't do drugs, but use other methods as a way to "escape" or "submerge themselves into their alter state of self." These methods are much safer and harmless than sniffing crack or something.

I am completely familiar with these methods as I practice them.



You've been kind of sour to me Diana in this post. I am quite surprised at you since we seem to usually get along so well. I am quite sad to hear this tone from you.

Yes, I smoke weed every now and then. I don't do any hardcore drugs, I don't drink hardly at all, and I don't smoke cigarettes. I think I am in pretty good shape. I hope somebody comes along and agrees with me here.

PEACE out.

_RED_ stuff

[Redpyramidhead]

Originally Posted by Reid

I do it not as an escape but instead as a method of experiencing reality in a different way. You can understand things in completely different ways when you're high -- see parts of life that normally are not obvious and overall just get a different look at what we take at face value every day. I don't see this as anything destructive if it's used in moderation. Obviously, problems arise if it's taken out of hand but that's similar to a lot of things in life.

Thank you for bringing this up. Marijuana is in many ways a spiritual aid in moderation.

_RED_ stuff

[merylsilverburg]

Originally Posted by Redpyramidhead

You've been kind of sour to me Diana in this post. I am quite surprised at you since we seem to usually get along so well. I am quite sad to hear this tone from you.

I didn't like your sarcastic tone in your post which is why I got angry. With you saying: (the underlined sections)

Originally Posted by Redpyramidhead

*Ahem* Whats this "normal state* I keep hearing about? Is there even such a thing? What's this magical normal state in which it is supposedly easier to deal with your problems more easily? I can tell you right now I have known many states in my life from simply living it and by listening to music or perhaps indulging in the occasional weed, but I have never in my entire life known a "normal mental state* in which it is best to deal with my problems.SO many of us who do not use hardcore drugs like to live under the false security that there is only one reality and we will only have to deal with that one "normal state" as long as we don't do drugs. Whatever.

Those parts weren't exactly the type of responses that I'd expected from you. And perhaps some of us do live in a "realistic" state and don't turn to drugs to escape or relieve ourselves. In turn though, it's almost as if we're the bad people or we're the stupid ones for not using the drugs. What's that about?

And please don't use my real name in public...I'm an incredibly paranoid person and I just don't like using real names unless it's a private conversation.

[Redpyramidhead]

I said those things you underlined in a completely UNsarcastic tone. I was being very serious and admittedly angry at people's general concenses that there is a "normal state" of mind or one specific "reality" i should be conforming to. I am somebody who has lived a life having a hard time maintaining these "normal" states causing great depression in my life. My tourette's syndrome, depression, and obsessive compulsive disorder (yes everybody I am quite gifted with alternate perceptions of reality by these so called "disorders") have caused me to act in ways other people refused to understand and made me feel bad for not only on purpose, but actually mostly be default because of the way society works. The day I realized it was ok to think differently (which didnt happen in a day, it happend over years of self revelations,) I was able to overcome the clinical depression caused by feeling bad about my differences. Over the years I have gorwn to be more proud of the unique person I am.

No this does not have anything directly to do with the use of drugs, except that maybe now you can understand why some people have less of their undying decotion invested in this "normal state" or "reality" that keeps coming up in this discussion.

Please, I do not wish to fight with you Meryl. You are a good friend. I think you would find, upon jacking into my full thoughts on the subject, we actually think much more similar on the matter than you believe.

PEACE

_RED_ stuff

[tempted]

Red i think you're taking this whole "normal" state issue a bit too far..most likely and as it was already said a couple of times in this thread, there isn't such thing as a "normal" state..but i think what Meryl is trying to say when she says "normal" state is not being under the influence of any kind of drugs, not being under the influence of any substance than can alter one's preception of what it's real and what it's not..at least that's my definition of being in a "normal" state..

Originally Posted by Redpyramidhead

Yes, I smoke weed every now and then. I don't do any hardcore drugs, I don't drink hardly at all, and I don't smoke cigarettes. I think I am in pretty good shape. I hope somebody comes along and agrees with me here.

..Yes, i agree that you are in good shape and that's probably why your first post kinda disappointed me...and now i see that i'm not the only one..that post doesn't seem like something that you would say...

[dan da man]

There is no such thing as a normal state, you're born into the this world and have a personality and mind and you take it from there, drugs take away the feature your born with and place it temporally with a artificial feeling/world.

[merylsilverburg]

What is the deal anyway? Am I not speaking English or something that people have to misunderstand what I meant by "normal state"?

Originally Posted by Kaena

but i think what Meryl is trying to say when she says "normal" state is not being under the influence of any kind of drugs, not being under the influence of any substance than can alter one's preception of what it's real and what it's not..

Yes, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Thank goodness you came along and clarified it (even though I have already said it right here

Originally Posted by merylsilverburg

Okay, perhaps we all shouldn't have used "normal state"...maybe we should've used "the state of being aware/alert of one's surroundings" instead. We all didn't think there would be a person on here who would take the word "normal state" so literally.

)

As I also said in the above quote, perhaps we all shouldn't use "normal state" because we didn't think there was someone who would take it so literally. It was just a term to use, maybe we shouldve used a "realistic state" but then that's wrong too.

Originally Posted by dan da man

There is no such thing as a normal state, you're born into the this world and have a personality and mind and you take it from there, drugs take away the feature your born with and place it temporally with a artificial feeling/world.

Somehow I don't quite understand what you mean by this.