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[Vicious_2003]

It was released earlier today that Jason Giambi, Barry Bonds, and a few other Major League baseball players regularly received Steroids from Balco...a supliment distributor. Coincidentally these men mentioned have recently shed conciderable wieght, enough to be noticed visually.

I just wanted to mention it because Ive hated Major League Baseball for ages and it puts a huge smile on my face to see them taking such a blow. All of these amazing/exciting homerun records that have been set mean NOTHING now. They were a result of cheating and the great american institution, americas past time, no longer looks soo great. Couple that with baseball's most exciting player Sammy Sosa "accidentaly" (Yeah right) corking his bat and getting cought, and baseball is tarnished.

In my opinion the sport of baseball istelf is boring, and full of out of shape pretend altheletes who are EXTREEEEEEEEMLY overpayed. I mean football players work much harder, stay in much better shape, and put alot more on the line physically yet get paid a pitince in comparrison . I myself would rather watch grass grow for 3 hours than watch the entirity of a MLB game. So whats this mean for the game of baseball now ? Id be interested to hear some baseball fans and what thier excuses are for thier beloved past time . So PW whats it gonna be ?

[Deathwatchz]

I personally feel that all major league sports players are paid too mcuh, but that's IMO. Personally, i don't watch too much baseball, football, or other stuff, just hockey. I will gladly sit back and watch a football game with my stepdad or friends though, but not on my own time. You will very rarely, if at all see me watch a baseball game, and i'm not surprised in the least to see all of this B.S. going on behind the scenes. I just hope that they realize that it doesn't matter about all this cheating and record setting, because MLB to me is less of a sport than an entertainment company, and if they are gonna do this to entertain the fans, then let them do what they will, cuz nothing much else goes on in a baseball game...

[XXAVIERR]

I've never been a huge fan of baseball myself, but I will watch if the Chicago Cubs are playing. I will agree with you on that Vicious. Let me ask you this though, you say that baseball players are out of shape and extremely overpaid, could you not say the same about football players or any other professional sport? I'm a fan of football but, don't tell me you believe to no one in the NFL is taking steroids.

[jjmoohead]

All I can say is Typical...Not about the staroids...but about the public.

Whats happening to us, What ever happened to INOSENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY?

I don't feel bonds took steriods, and if he is proven guilty then of course i will change my mind.

The moment some possible news is mentioned everyone jumps on the "HE DID IT" bus. but please tell me vicious at what point in any news story does it say BARRY BONDS TOOK STERIODS DURING HIS RECORD HOMERUN SEASON and have proof to back it up? i didnt think so.

Until there is something that says it happened for sure then you need to becarful what you say. This is how reputations are destroyed.

Lets think of other people this year that have been destroyed to people judging before the facts are presented.

MICHEAL JACKSON - hmmm ring a bell
KOBE BRANT - Oh he must have done it...in fact he did do it cause i read somewhere that he slept with the girl so that means he raped her. Oh he probably does steriods too cause he lives in LA and Sanfransico is in California so its obviously a big consipiracy between Bonds and Kobe. Hmmm interesting.

You see how dumb that is! Please!


Now agree with the money thing,,,,but thats another story

[Vicious_2003]

I don't feel bonds took steriods, and if he is proven guilty then of course i will change my mind.

Oh c'mon every arrow points to him using steroids. Do they really need video evidence of him popping the pills ? Lets see they have proof that he recieved steroids sent to him by Balco. You think he was stockpiling them ? Maybe bulding something out of them ? If he allowed them to send him steroids and kept it a secret then he was OBVIOUSLY using them. There is no other reasonable explination of why a pro athelete would recieve steroids and not report the people who tried to give them to him immedaitly.

But unfortunoutly the way our in-justice system works he will hire a trillion dollar lawyer who will get him off scott free. And for some reason they cant convict anyone without a smoking gun these days. "Lets see, the defandant was found with the victims blood on his hands and holding the knife that killed her while hovering over her dead body. But wait no one actually "saw" him kill her soo we will let him off. Its bull shit, plain and simple

And as far as the comments that ALL pro atheletes are over payed. Yeah thats for sure. I was just singling out baseball because they make a HELL of a lot more than football players. AND because Baseball is the subject of this post.

[Berserker]

So you think that just because NFL players are in better physical shape they should get paid more??? You clearly don't know to much about sport my dear friend, how much you get paid has something to do with how much sponsors, fans, tv-airtime etc the game gets. It has nothing to do with how good you are, when it gets down to that why are fitness athletes not the best paid sportsmen??? Do you know how much a T.Woods wins with a tournament, that stands in no comparison with the physical effort. It has no relation with each other.
It's very naive IMO to say "It's not fair they work harder and get paid less" ....that's life. Go work in a factory and find out.
And it's also naive to think that NFL-players don't use steroids, a friend of mine has played college football for one year in the US and he was amazed at the amounts of supplements, steroids and growth hormons the players were prescribed by coaches and medical staff. It's a well known fact that steroid use is widely spread through all of the sportworld. And one thing about steroids is it doesn't make you a better athlete when it comes down to skills. It can give you more endurance, more muscles, less fat etc. , but it can't give you more skills.

[Vicious_2003]

So you think that just because NFL players are in better physical shape they should get paid more??? You clearly don't know to much about sport my dear friend, how much you get paid has something to do with how much sponsors, fans, tv-airtime etc the game gets

1st of all. Your putting words in my mouth. And I know PLENTY about sports. So lets not jump to conclusions. I think football players should be payed more because they work a hell of alot harder. Thats just my opinion, the reason they dont get payed as much as baseball/basketball players is because the NFL doesent invest as much of its assets on player saleries as Major League baseball. All I said was they deserve more than baseball players.

How much you get paid has something to do with how much sponsors, fans, tv-airtime etc the game gets

Ok who doesent know about sports ? Sorry but sponsorship doesent have an effect on a players salery. Unless of course your talking Nascar. As for baseball/football, sponsorships are completely seperate from there actual saleries. And having alot of fan support in your city does have some effect in the negotiation process, for the simple reason that they want to keep fans happy and having fan support may allow you some leway in nagotiation. But in the long run its not all THAT important. And if your saying air time depicts players saleries in a sport then Soccor and american pro football players should be the highest payed atheletes in the world. BOTH sports obtain much higher ratings than baseball on average.

[jjmoohead]

If he allowed them to send him steroids and kept it a secret then he was OBVIOUSLY using them.

Hey thanks for proving my point.

Guilty until proven innosent. I dont think he did it, but until i see a postive drug test i cant say he did it, im sorry, thats just the way i work.

Hey, I recieved a piece of gum from my friend yesterday, which means I obviously chewed it too cause if you are recieving something it means your using it.

[Berserker]

And if your saying air time depicts players saleries in a sport then Soccor and american pro football players should be the highest payed atheletes in the world. BOTH sports obtain much higher ratings than baseball on average.

Then there should be something wrong with NFL ( not with soccer they get paid WAY too much...in europe anyway), cause according to the market mechanismes they should be paid more when there's more money and with things like pay-per-view it involves millions were does all the money goes???
And you can't blame that on baseball, blame it on the NFL IMO.
And after all what are we talking about the average NFL player makes more in a year than we do in a lifetime, so there's no reason to complain about their money we don't have to feel sorry for them.

[Preventer Wind]

OK this is funny. To sit here and say that baseball is rubbish because the players use roids and other such supplements to gain an advantage is one thing. But you have to point the finger at every sport. There are probably a heck of a lot more football players on some sort of supplement then football players. How many 260-lb people do you know? Now how many do you know that can run the 40-yard dash in 4.4 seconds? It's ludicrous to single out one sport.

And don't even get started about how baseball players are out of shape. That is hilarious. There are a couple of postitions in football where you get paid millions to be overweight. Name me some names of out of shape baseball players. For every name you say I am sure I could name 5 football players. What baseball players do is twice as hard as anything a football player does. I am a fan of both sports but only play baseball for a team. So call it what you like.

Baseball players get paid more because they play 10x as many games. They are not overpaid at all. If someone wants to hand you a couple million dollars for doing whatever you do would you take it? They get paid what the market offers them.

[Vicious_2003]

There you are PW. I knew youd have some words for me after me knocking your religion like that

They are not overpaid at all

90 million dollars to play the game of baseball isnt over paid ? I disagree. But I dont blame them for it...if someone offered me that much money to play sports, id take it.

But you have to point the finger at every sport

Not really. The NFL has regular testing for steroids. And you rarely here of anyone getting busted for using them. Lets not deflect the adverse attention just because your fav sport happens to be baseball

There are probably a heck of a lot more football players on some sort of supplement then football players

Dont you mean "legal" suppliments. Thats not cheating...roids are banned . Get the difference ?

It's ludicrous to single out one sport

Then how come its only baseball players who are all of a sudden shedding 30lbs of muscle in an instant when steroids alligations come out ?. And how come its BASEBALL thats all over the news in regaurds to steroids these days ? A national conspiracy against its very own past time ? Me thinkith's not.

Baseball players get paid more because they play 10x as many games

And unless your starting in the field your barely every moving in baseball. Standing around in a dug out for and hour and a half must be really tough. But wait, every once in a while you have to stand in the outfield and catch a ball if its hit towards you. They DO have it rough. And then sometimes they even have to swing at a ball with a bat a few times !. Holy shit how do they do it ?. Not to mention running a few feet from one base to another with only 3 years to rest after they get there most of the time. Gladiator I tell you, they're gladiators !

[jjmoohead]

Vicious buddy,

Please JUST ONCE, explain to me were it says OFFICALLY, that baseball players are using steriods. My god, dude you are trying to hard on this one.

Jason Giambi is in the best shape of his life, funny how hes pointed out as a possible user. Barry Bonds is going to be 40 years old still hitting 50 homers a season, hmmm he got pointed at too.

Hey i was just wonder buddy, have you ever heard of a thing called a GYM. we have them here, you can go and do running or lift weights, some even have pools. you can work out and improve your body shape. Do you not think that has something to do with it. I mean common, your not helping your cause at all.

I love this guy vicious cause to him losing 30 pounds means you were taking steriods at some point. Man i lost 20 pounds last summer, i guess i took steriods. We have not seen these guys in a few months and we expect them to be the same person when they return. Your being rediculus here.

As for money...Yes they make to much, anyone who says differently is a retard. Every sport makes to much. Football is no different then baseball. There is still alot of waiting time in football too. Especailly if you have a good defence and have a great offense. Last NFL season i watched a game where then defense was on the field for 7 total minutes. For those 7 minutes there was at least 3 mins of play calling and waiting for the ball to be snapped. Lets not forget all the time it takes to go from the tackle to the next snap. So dont tell me football is any better.

THEY ALL MAKE TO MUCH! END OF STORY!

[Preventer Wind]

Originally posted by Vicious_2003
Not really. The NFL has regular testing for steroids. And you rarely here of anyone getting busted for using them. Lets not deflect the adverse attention just because your fav sport happens to be baseball

Right...that's why 10 years ago you rarely heard of a linemen over 300-lbs. Now you rarely hear one under that. That's why you never heard of 240-lbs. linebackers but now that is undersized. Please tell me that some of these guys are not on something. Or did NFL players all of a sudden realize that there are things like gyms?

Originally posted by Vicious_2003
And unless your starting in the field your barely every moving in baseball. Standing around in a dug out for and hour and a half must be really tough. But wait, every once in a while you have to stand in the outfield and catch a ball if its hit towards you. They DO have it rough. And then sometimes they even have to swing at a ball with a bat a few times !. Holy shit how do they do it ?. Not to mention running a few feet from one base to another with only 3 years to rest after they get there most of the time. Gladiator I tell you, they're gladiators !

Funny. Then tell me why every player is in good shape? For if they do very little then what is the point of them being in any kind of shape? You make it seem like that stuff isn't hard when, in truth, it is actually difficult to do with some degree of consistency. Running a few feet? It's 30 yards to each base. How many 30 yard plays are in a football game? Usually not that many.

Yes, playing one game may not be that taxing but playing over 150 is. You have never played a single real team game have you? You have no idea how difficult it is. I pray that your ignorance on the matter is just because you like the NFL so much.

I think that steroid use or any other use of supplements is plain wrong (Unless it is for your health or something along those lines). Steroid use goes on in just about every sport. It's not going to make me any less of a fan of any game because it is already clear to me that some people do use them. It does make me angry that people would try and defend football players of not taking anything. I'm sure some players, maybe most, don't. But to say that baseball is worse? Please.

How can you guys say they make too much money? We are part of the reason they do make so much. Stop watching sports and when there are no fans then there wont be any point in paying the players. But I guess you can't blame people for finding something interesting. Blame the owners then. They are the ones with all the money!

And Baseball is just part of my religon. Sports and Video games just about covers it

[Vicious_2003]

I pray that your ignorance on the matter is just because you like the NFL so much

My ignoreance on the matter has nothing to do with the NFL and everything to do with me knowing very little about the game of baseball !. Thank you very much !

How can you guys say they make too much money? We are part of the reason they do make so much. Stop watching sports and when there are no fans then there wont be any point in paying the players. But I guess you can't blame people for finding something interesting. Blame the owners then. They are the ones with all the money!

No ones really to blame. But that doesent mean that you cant feel that they are overpayed for what they do. The owners shell out as much money as they can to stay competative and get good players. The players hire agents to get them as much money as possible. cant blame them, id try and get a much money as I could for doing a job. Im just saying theyre overpaid, not that they should take pay cuts. If that makes any sence

You make it seem like that stuff isn't hard when, in truth, it is actually difficult to do with some degree of consistency

I know....I was just sort of going on a half sarcastic over the top rant to stir up some emotional responses and make things interesting. Im sure I would NEVER make it through spring training let alone a full season .

Right...that's why 10 years ago you rarely heard of a linemen over 300-lbs. Now you rarely hear one under that

But there is a difference between gaining 50 lbs of fat anf 50 lbs of muscle. Linemen in the NFl just eat more to get bigger. So its not proof at all that they used steroids. That would be jumping to pretty big conclusions. But when a man is ripped and weighing 240 lbs one season and the next clocks in at 210 right after they start looking into steroids usage..somethings going on.

Sports and Video games just about covers it

FINALLY were on the same page

Please JUST ONCE, explain to me were it says OFFICALLY

Its sooo unbelivably obvious that Bonds did steroids. Get off it. You need people to spoon feed the facts to you before you make a judgement. Make an educated assumption here. EVERY arrow points to Bonds using steroids. Stop defending the man allready. I dont need some stupid jury to tell me what I allready know.

Jason Giambi is in the best shape of his life, funny how hes pointed out as a possible user

Are you kidding me ?. Have you seen him lately. He has slimmed down BIG TIME. Coincidence.......you decide

Hey i was just wonder buddy, have you ever heard of a thing called a GYM. we have them here, you can go and do running or lift weights, some even have pools. you can work out and improve your body shape. Do you not think that has something to do with it. I mean common, your not helping your cause at all.

Yeah, one season they all up and decided to work out ten times harder and then this season...they decided to slack off. Riiiiiiiight

My god, dude you are trying to hard on this one

I always give it my 110%

[Berserker]

Not really. The NFL has regular testing for steroids. And you rarely here of anyone getting busted for using them. Lets not deflect the adverse attention just because your fav sport happens to be baseball

Dude, let me tell you something about roids. I happen to know them quite well( never used them though and never will...).
There are many many different roids and prohormones each of them have different detection times. Some can be found in your blood after a year some only the first few months and there are a lot of new pro-hormones coming up that can't even be tested for(yet). Believe me probably be MLB and NFL players use them just as much, whether they get caught has something to do with their physical advisors and coaches. They have to take the right substances during the right(off-season) period of time.

But there is a difference between gaining 50 lbs of fat anf 50 lbs of muscle. Linemen in the NFl just eat more to get bigger.

A few posts back you said that NFL-players where in far better shape, now you're saying they're just fat??

[Deathwatchz]

HAH HAH HAH HAH, this thread is hilarious!!!! Why is it that you guys are at each other's throats over games? they will play wether they are doing roids or not! just because there are a couple of poeple using drugs doesn't mean the whole sport will come crashing down! some poeple are cheating with roids, but what about all the politics behind the scenes. i dont have proof of it, but i am damn sure that there have been thrown games, player trades, etc.. that cause these sports to have outcomes that aren't just based on players skill. they will continue either way, so calm down a little sheesh!

[Vicious_2003]

A few posts back you said that NFL-players where in far better shape, now you're saying they're just fat

I was reffering to Linemen in particular. Yes many linemen have ALOT of body fat. But take most any running back, corner back, or Wide reciever and yes id bet there in better shape than your average third basemen.

HAH HAH HAH HAH, this thread is hilarious!!!! Why is it that you guys are at each other's throats over games? they will play wether they are doing roids or not! just because there are a couple of poeple using drugs doesn't mean the whole sport will come crashing down! some poeple are cheating with roids, but what about all the politics behind the scenes. i dont have proof of it, but i am damn sure that there have been thrown games, player trades, etc.. that cause these sports to have outcomes that aren't just based on players skill. they will continue either way, so calm down a little sheesh!

No ones at anyone throat..just a debate on sports. If you find it so rediculous then DONT POST. Of course there are alot of underhanded things going on behind the scenes but id still like to know, or atleast belive that there is a level playing field and that some atheletes arent cheating to get an edge on the others. And if so I want to know wich ones are chating so I can give props to the ones who arent. The atheletes who are working harder...spending more time in the gym, and getting little attention because so and so uses steroids and hits a trillion homeruns, or runs for 3 billion yards in a season. Thats my biggest problem with it.

[Berserker]

Using roids doesn't make you hit more homeruns...period!
Steroids in general make you more muscular, diuretics make you lose water and make you ripped. You got all kind of roids that do all kind of different things to you muscles but it is a muscular thing.
And hitting homeruns isn't all about muscles(it off course takes strenght but not to the amount that you have to take steroids to pull it off better), it's about a combination of strenght, skills coordination etc.
If it were to be all about muscles why isn't Ronnie Coleman the best batter around with his ripped 350+ lbs ??? He probably can't hit a ball. The muscles would only be in the way. Some steroids do increase strenght but mostly limited to the time of the cycle, so that ain't an option for an athlete during season.
So don't you agree with me that steroids doesn't make a man a better homerun machine?

[Vicious_2003]

it's about a combination of strenght, skills coordination etc.

And therefore sence steroids dramtically increase strength, then they dramatically increase one element of what helps you hit homeruns bu your very own words. You sort of contradicted yourself there. But I think your point was that just using steroids isnt going to turn you into a homerum machine..thats true. I could use as much steroids as I wanted and ill still go out and miss every pitch in the majors. Its still about skill in the long run. But skill coupled with illegally inhanced strenth= More homeruns

[Berserker]

I kinda agree with you, but I still think you can't say that those players records are worth nothing now. I think you also need to know what they were taking before you condemn them, cause in some cases players are given medicines to recoperate(???) better after an injury and it turns out that they're tested positive cause of those substances.
I'm not saying they didn't do anything illegal, they might as well have but I think we better wait and see before we start cutting heads.