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[Pu the Owl]

Ok, this may sound odd, but someone expressed the wish to have also some serious discussion and that's what I'm trying to do now.
The topic is easy to understand, but the subject is not so easy, I think.
Are you a fatalist and you're sure doesn't really matter what you do and how good is your behaviour in life because nothing can change, or do you believe the human being has the possibility to act in a certain way to change the situation?
In brief: are you a supporter of the idea there's some space for free will or do you think fate is fate and that's all about it?

[Hadoken]

I dont think there`s such a thing as fate.
Fate is just something created by people, and something they want to believe in.
Its like an excuse for things. But who knows, I could be wrong.
I hope this conversation doesnt spur harsh arguements.

[BlackThornn]

I think it's a mix. There's definantly something that drives us to live and affects our decisions.

Second-guessing is free-will, say like a choice between two.. idunno.. clients. Both of them are offering huge amounts of money that could make an office huge or make a rival that and leave the one that refused in the dust. Neither of them has presented much details, just the outlines of a project.. your 'gut' tells you to go with one over the other. IMO, the 'gut' feeling without *any* knowledge of something is 'fate'. The nudge that's trying to lead you toward playing your part in life. Second-guessing that gut feeling and overthinking the situation is excercising free will, and breaking away from 'fate'. Most times things work out better if you choose what your gut feeling chose.

Fate exists, I think, but you need to take the opportunities it gives you. If you go against your own feelings, or 'fate' too many times.. pretty soon those feelings will stop coming. That's when you're drifting in a vast ocean of free will alone.. and I think that's when you're in trouble.


BTW, I believe that death isn't the end either. For the same reasons as Albert Einstien (spelling?). Energy is what powers our minds.. and energy can never die. It can only change form.

[Mercury Shadow]

Hadoken summed it up for me

[IcyMourdor]

[COLOR=sky blue]Destiny, Fate, Given Paths. These are nonsence. Nothing is plotted out for me ahead of time. I have the ability to change what I do. Everything that happens to me is a direct result of things I have done. Events don't happen without a reason. People die in car accidents, fate didn't decide that. Faulty car, alcohol, distractions. Not some God saying, "Oh, I'll just make this person's car go off the road and get into a fatal accident". There must be a real reason for everything, some more obvious than others.[/COLOR]

[BlackThornn]

Mourdor, if your post is in reference to mine, you missed the point. I expressly said that fate wasn't concrete. God isn't plotting out the exact path of everyone's life, anyone who seriously believes that is... well.. wrong. There are too many variables.

People dying in accidents as a result of alchohol, or faulty parts, or distractions, were all the direct fault of *someone*. There are no utter accidents save stuff that maybe happens because of weather. The drunk decided to do what the hell he wanted and drink, the maker of the machine that made the car part decided to not inspect it as thoroughly as it should have been that day, the person talking on the cellphone that crashed into the kid going to school on a bike is because that someone decided they wanted to talk on a damn cellphone while they were driving. There's not a set plan, but something affects us. Or most of us.

[Sword 4 Hire]

Wow this thread is deep...well I don't believe in Fate, I like to think that I'm in charge of what future I make for myself...not some unknown force.

[jenova_jeb]

Fate is a bunch of bull crap. I don't believe there's any such thing.

[MakgSnake]

I Believe Everything Is Written Down By "Him" Even Before When U Were Born....And Thats What U Get In Ure Life.

But There Comes A Time (A Day) Each Year When U Can Actually Change What Has Been Written For U And Make It In Ure Own Way!.! But For That U Have To Pray All Night And Show "Him" That Ure His Creation!.!


Whatever Happens In Ure Life Is Already Written..............But "He" Has Given U A Mind To Think About What Is Wrong And What Is Right!.! That Is Something U Decide, Which Hits U In A Present Situation. But Something Like Where U'll Be Exactly After 2 Years Is Not In Ure Hand!.!

[Evil Parrot]

I dont know if I beleive in fate, but I know theres no such thing as being 'totaly' in control of your life, theres always someone or something there to deflect you off course for what you want.

Some people are born into an ideal situation where their parents might be well-off or willing to encourage whatever decicions we make in life but then theres the other end of the scale.

So while I'm unsure about 'fate', I dont beleive that life is truly 100% there for the taking

[Uchiha Sasuke]

I believe fate exsists.It just seems that im on a path like everything in my life has been plotted out now that i look back at it.But still i have no idea where my life is heading or what the future for me will look like.

[kupoartist]

You have to know your future for Fate to exist. Few people know their exact path and where It will end, but these people aren't experiencing fate, they are simply using a calculated guess. A lot of us could predict what we shall have for breakfast tomorrow, but predictions of our exact deaths would be nothing more than guesses based on all the facts available to us.
The only way to be subject to Fate is to see the event in the future, and come back to the past. This is impossible for all of us. So fate is not a problem for all of us. As far as we are concerned, "Nothing Is Written."

... umm that probably makes no sense at all..

[Vamp]

me vote for free will as my fate is in my woman's hand

me want freeee willlll

[Pu the Owl]

Well, I don't know... everyone has an opinion. Personally I admire MakgSnake for his calm way of accepting the gift of life. It's a wonderful thing, even if I'm not religious I'm envious of this way of accepting things.

As for me, I don't think we can use free will that much, but I'm not saying it's because I believe in fate. I mean, when I see "coincidences", also cruel coincidences happening in people's lives, I can't force myself to think they're only stupid or tragic things that can always happen. I wonder if it's meaningful or not.

Many philosophers I've studied with interest have contrasting opinions on this subject. Some of them are sure Life is a sort of circle and it's always repeating itself. Others say everything will lead to perfection and human will isn't that important to complete the process. Someone else says life is pure matter of coincidences and chaotic elements thrown into our existance. I admire every single position, even if I know nobody's sure about it. They're all coherent, but they're not reliable, because we don't have any certainty.

[Reid]

I have a hard time thinking about fate and free will.

Events in my life have seemed to combine a mixture of the two.

One event that really stands out in my life, the death of a parent seems like something that was meant to happen (maybe because the entire experience felt so surreal for me during the entire time and for a year or two after), but coming to terms with my life and how it was going to change from that point on seemed liked pushing through something that was already set out for me, kind of like claiming a bit of free will.

Working through the pain and getting out of a personal downward spiral seemed like an enormous exercise of free will, something that certainly didn't feel pre-ordained, or set out for me already.

Some people might argue that whatever you do, no matter what you think about it is fate. It could've been fate to move on from a big event, but it felt more like I was exercising free will against fate.

In the book Timequake by Kurt Vonnegut, one of his characters, Kilgore Trout is stuck in a repeating "timequake" where he can tell what will happen in the next ten years, but is powerless to alter it, until near the end he breaks free from it, and helps others out of it.

I think that free will and fate both exist, alongside each other, and fate is more of an "auto-pilot" setting for our lives. Free will is almost an act of rebellion or determination against that guiding force, that (if we work hard enough on it) can break through it, and change what has already been layed on the table for us.

I don't know how relevant all of that is, but I hope it makes some sort of sense in the end.

[Neo_Soldier28]

I think that the main purpose of our life is already made but there are choice that are given to us inorder to get to that. And i think that no matter what you will get a choice and in the end you will fullfill your purpose in life

[Rei]

There are many obstacles and forces against everyone's free will.
Nobody's completely free to decide and I wouldn't call it fate, but the normal flowing of life.

[007_JamesBond]

I dont like the idea that I am not in control of my own life, I dont beleive in fate or destiny, I am in control of my life and no one else will ever be.

[Bhcdarkness]

i dont like fate. i dont like the idea that im not in control of my own life. i believe that if i want to do something, i do it. and i dont think decisions are made for me.

now im open to change. if some god comes swooping down from the heavens and can like make lightning come out of his hands and shit, and he tells me that hes making my choices for me, ill be MUCH more inclined to believe then.

but i think the human race has come way to far for it all to be fate. i mean weve made to many revolutionary discoveries and were way to curious for it all to have been fate.

Can God make a rock so big that he can't lift it?

[happy_doughnut]

Well, as someone has previously mentioned before, I think it is a combination of both. There are somethings in your life that "are meant to happen" as well as there are many times in which you have the option of choosing what you want to do. I personally believe that "He" put us here on this Earth for a reason. However, I also think He also gives us the opportunity to choose which path we will take during our life as well as the things we ourselves wish to submit to.