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[cube_vs_ps2]

I need reasons why the PS2 is better then GCN or XBox! Lots of them! Anything, like about colors, games, handling, game formats, console size, graphics, sounds, etc. Thanx!

[Infernal Mass]

the box is pretty cool.

edit: it's not hard to see why most prefer the sony system over the other two, it's for the amount and variety of software for the playstation 2.

[KraftSLU]

Pretty much just games. Its definately been beat out in sound, graphics, online compatibility, etc. etc. The only arguement I hear anymore as to purchasing a ps2 is the amount of games available.

[Harry]

Online compatibility? Graphics?


Once again, these are your personal opinions. Especially when it comes to Online Compatibility. The Xbox Live project has one enormous problem for countries outside North America: it only supports broadband connectivity. Maybe you don't know that in Europe - an IMPORTANT market that made the success of more than a game - great part of the players are still on a 56k dial-up connection, and it will take two years for the situation to change.

Then, the second big problem is that Microsoft will charge $9.95 monthly to use the Xbox Live service, while there will be no charges at all to play great part of the online games for the Ps2 - SOCOM U.S. NS, Automodellista, Gameday, Madden, Timesplitters 2. Just imagine an Xbox player forced to pay $9.95 to play TimeSplitters 2 online while a Ps2 owner will play the game for free - that isn't funny, on my opinion. The only online games that Ps2 players will have to pay for the Ps2 are MMORPGs.

And I know that now someone could say "Yes, but to play online games with my Ps2 I'll have to buy the Network Adapter, while the Xbox has the Ethernet Card built-in!". Well, unluckily the situation is no different for Xbox owners.

If the Ps2 Network Adapter retails for $39.99, the NECESSARY Xbox Live Kit (containing the software and the headset) will not be free: it will cost $49.99. So, where's the difference? And sincerely, as an Xbox owner, I'm quite pissed off at MS for this nice idea. I bought a system thinking that it was ready to go online and now I discover that I have to buy a Starter Kit. That isn't fair.

Yes, the Ps2 doesn't have an HDD, but it's also true that not everybody is interested in games who need this peripheral to be played.

Overall, I don't like the Xbox Live project - it seems to me a system perfect for the U.S. market, but not for the European one. And it's also a system for Microsoft to make enormous $ with targeted advertising.

Cube, that's one of the reasons that made me think that the Ps2 is a better system than the Xbox.

But take a look at the line-up of each system by yourself to decide which games you'd like to play. The Xbox has many great unique titles like Morrowind and the upcoming Blinx (which makes use of the HDD), and the same can be said of the GameCube, which has games like Resident Evil, Rogue Leader, and in the next future Metroid Prime, Super Mario Sunshine, Zelda etc.

[KraftSLU]

Originally posted by Harry

Then, the second big problem is that Microsoft will charge $9.95 monthly to use the Xbox Live service, while there will be no charges at all to play great part of the online games for the Ps2 - SOCOM U.S. NS, Automodellista, Gameday, Madden, Timesplitters 2. Just imagine an Xbox player forced to pay $9.95 to play TimeSplitters 2 online while a Ps2 owner will play the game for free - that isn't funny, on my opinion. The only online games that Ps2 players will have to pay for the Ps2 are MMORPGs.

I believe I read somewhere that there will be PS2 online games that will only allow broadband ps2 users to play them. Can't remember where I read that but I'll try to look it up to post later. The funny thing is you really have no basis to say that only mmorpgs will cost money. Sony's stance on online pricing is it is up to the individual companies to maintain servers and charge customers. So you could end up paying 10 bucks a month for FFXI, 5 bucks a month for another, 5 for yet another, etc. etc. I plan on buying at least 4 online games in the future as it is, and all it costs for the first year is 50 dollars which includes a voice communicator and a free game for the xbox. Chances are further down the road there will be renewal deals also. This makes your entire 'no better deal than having to buy a network adapter a moot point. Because you will have to buy the network adapter for 40, another brand new game for 50, and if the company decides it is going to charge you money that is extra per month. Whereas 50 bucks for the xbox will keep you online for a year.

Oh, and to the graphics debate as being opinion? I hate to say it, but it really isn't. I have a ps2 on my entertainment center and I love some of the games for it, but having both systems I can honestly say the ps2 is behind the cube and box in that dept. Especially since all of it's technology is a year behind the other next gen systems. Just off the top of my head the xbox is better in the followind depts:

texture passing
texture buffering
vertex shading
hardware lighting
raw poly count
larger graphics to processor bus

The only thing that the ps2 has over the xbox right now is it's partical effects. But I am thinking this is just because noone has really had much use for partical effects in xbox games. So I am still holding to my original statement that ps2 has games going for it, and thats about it.

[Harry]

Krafts, maybe I know just a couple of things more than you, since I pass 9 hours of the day reading press releases, talking with PRs, writing news, previews, reviews and mantaining a whole website.

I do have the basis to say what I'm saying, I don't like useless and pointless posts. Sony officially stated that only big games which involves thousands of players simultaneuosly on the same server will be allowed to require a fee to be played. And so far, among the games officially announced for North America, only FF XI will require a fee to be played.

When someone asks you about Ps2 and Xbox online gaming you have to be honest and say:

"In general, there will no fee for Ps2 online gaming. In general, there will be a fee to pay Xbox Live."

Period.

And yes, there are games on the Ps2 which are only playable on broadband (SOCOM U.S. NS), but great part of the games are playable in some way at 56k, FF XI included. Face it, the choice of allowing broadband users only is another proof that the only real market for the Xbox is North America. With just 4 million Xbox units sold worldwide, the limitation of broadband-only is really awful.

And you should also admit that the whole concept of Xbox Live is a way to earn thousands of dollars in targeted advertising and to force players to play through an environment fully controlled by Microsoft. I don't know you, but that's something I don't like, and that's something that Microsoft has been doing in any field in which they operate. I really don't know why you, having both systems, are so proud of Microsoft's online strategy - maybe you invested your money on the company?

Speaking of the graphic grandeur of the Xbox, I've yet to see games with that incredible graphics. I've had the chance to see Splinter Cell in action, and this so-called MGS killer, is far from being impressive on my opinion. Less than stellar framerate, and rough animations. I hope they'll fix that for the final product.

And the other games on the system are far from doing justice to a system that should kill al the others with incredible graphics. Halo? Great, but not even close to MGS2. Project Gotham? Cool, but not evan close to the realism of GT3. Morrowind? Wonderful in-game world, but awful slowdowns and glitches.

If you want to speak of incredible, more than polished graphics, you have to take a look at the Cube, not at the Xbox. Maybe things will change with the release of MGS - I'm really waiting to see what Kojima & co. will add in the Xbox version.

And finally, most of the players don't care about texture buffering, texture passing, vertex shading and bla bla bla, this is stuff for developers and PRs. Players want to see great games, with great graphics, and most important, with awesome gameplay - Microsoft should start working on more exclusives and more big games instead of filling magazines and websites with things like we're better than X and Y because we have a more powerful console. Power is nothing when you are not able to use it in the right direction.

Cube, if you want to buy only one console, my sincere choice would be the Ps2. You might think it's an obvious reply from an Editor of a Ps2 website, but I can assure you that for a reason or another I'm interested in each of the three consoles. The Ps2 has an incredible variety of great quality games, plus dozens of secondary titles that you might like. The Xbox and the GameCube doesn't offer the same variety of the Ps2's line-up, that's undeniable, and in the history of videogames, the line-up is what really makes a console.

If you are looking for a second console choose the system you prefer, according to the line-up. They're both good systems, and they offer in some way games that will not be available to the others. The Xbox has the advantage of the built in HDD, which hopefully will be used in the future also to install patches - and god knows if games like Morrowind would need a solid patch for the Xbox version.

Read the other threads in the "Other consoles" forum, you'll have more than an intelligent reply from our great members here at Ps2Fantasy.

[TtTackler]

*claps* I couldn't have said better myself Harry.

[KraftSLU]

Ok, I'll assume you are correct on the no online billing part of the post as I don't keep totally up to date on sony press releases... Though I have come to notice a rather un-nerving trend of Sony saying whatever they need to to build hype and then changing plans later on down the road. I guess we will see when early october rolls around.

As for the whole Xbox live thing, Microsoft will be earning no money on it whatsoever. They are definately going to be taking a huge loss on the xbox live project no matter what way you look at it. MS is trying to get nation wide upgrades accomplished via the xbox. MS probably feels that houses should have broadband at this point in time because it will be necessary in the future (I agree with this). So by xbox live being broadband that is probably going to increase the number of people investing in cable and dsl hookups. A little further down the road MS is releasing a bit of equipment to interface your xbox to your computer via a home-LAN system and will let the xbox access MP3s, video files, etc. and play them through your living room. So in essence MS is trying to push the masses to network their house. Personally I think all these things are inevitable (broadband, networks) and I think it is really cool that MS is pushing people to do it and offering us that have broadband and home networks cool products to use.

Oh, if the PS2s graphics are so much superior to the xbox, why is it that ever game on the ps2 that makes its way to the box ends up looking so much better and never has to deal with nearly as many jaggy and framerate issues? BO2 saw this, so did THPS2 and 3. NHL2002 had no framerate probs on the box. I could go on for a while. Im glad that MGS2 is a pretty game, as I would hope it is being a hallmark ps2 game. But mg:substance is coming out soon for ps2 and xbox. Both versions will look better than mgs2, and I would put good money down that the xbox version looks better. (p.s. personally I think morrowind is absolutely beautiful, though you are correct in there being the occasional framerate stutter and bugs here and there, this hasn't kept me from dumping at least 100 hours into this game and Im still loving it.)


Cube, the best advice I've ever heard anyone give on selecting a console is to try them. Rent each one, usually doesn't cost a whole lot. Or play a friends and rent some games you'd be interested in. Me and 3 friends did this back in january, each of us rented a different system on each weekend and each of us rented one game we really wanted to play. After all was said and done 2 of us bought xboxs and one bought a gc. Not to say that ps2 is a bad system, but sometimes it just doesn't have the appeal to certain people. You honestly do need to try them first before you decide.

[cube_vs_ps2]

Thanx for the help every1

[Harry]

Originally posted by KraftSLU
As for the whole Xbox live thing, Microsoft will be earning no money on it whatsoever. They are definately going to be taking a huge loss on the xbox live project no matter what way you look at it. MS is trying to get nation wide upgrades accomplished via the xbox.

Sorry, but, no that's not correct. Investors are excited by the Xbox live project because, unlike Sony plans (and of course Nintendo ones), the project will give them full control over their audience. The Xbox live project allows targeted advertising, but what's more important will constantly provide a living projection of the gaming population - something fundamental when it comes to advertising and long-term projects. Remember, Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo are not charitable institutions - Microsoft want to make money with the Xbox project but they necessarily need to make money on the long run, because they've just entered the market of console gaming. That's why they need a so-called "closed" environment for online gaming.

Originally posted by KraftSLU
A little further down the road MS is releasing a bit of equipment to interface your xbox to your computer via a home-LAN system and will let the xbox access MP3s, video files, etc. and play them through your living room.

That's exactly what Sony would like to do with the Ps2 according to their official press release. But I sincerely think that this is not the right generation to speak of a console that becomes "center" of the house.

Originally posted by KraftSLU
Oh, if the PS2s graphics are so much superior to the xbox, why is it that ever game on the ps2 that makes its way to the box ends up looking so much better and never has to deal with nearly as many jaggy and framerate issues? BO2 saw this, so did THPS2 and 3. NHL2002 had no framerate probs on the box. I could go on for a while.

Krafts, I really didn't say that the Ps2 has better graphics than the Xbox. I said that the Xbox has yet to show something that's worth its reputation. Considering that the Ps2 is 2 years older, I was expecting to see somthing more groundbreaking from Microsoft's beast. That's why I'm waiting to see the Xbox version of MGS2 - KCEJ is the right team when it comes to showing the power of a system!

Originally posted by KraftSLU
I think morrowind is absolutely beautiful, though you are correct in there being the occasional framerate stutter and bugs here and there, this hasn't kept me from dumping at least 100 hours into this game and Im still loving it.)

Yes, I was speaking of graphic problems and occasional bugs,
but overall I think the same. Morrowind is a wonderful game, an incredible, fascinating masterpiece - and I'm sure that if a patch will be released for the Xbox, it will be even more enjoyable.

Originally posted by KraftSLU
Cube, the best advice I've ever heard anyone give on selecting a console is to try them.

Amen.

[AsylumEscapee]

Many thanks to harry for the straight-to-the-point-kraft-youre-wrong posts.

I disagree on one thing, though. Why do people keep saying that the best way to decide on a system is to "try them"? I dont see how going to wal-mart, renting a console for 5 days, or playing some game at a friends house is suppose to make you realize which system is for you.

I personally think that the best way to decide is to add up all the games you want to play on each console. 1 killer app does not make a system, nor does their "potential", they all have THAT.

Or.. or.. you could buy them all, play them for a year.. go back in time and retur...

[Harry]

Originally posted by AsylumEscapee
I disagree on one thing, though. Why do people keep saying that the best way to decide on a system is to "try them"? I dont see how going to wal-mart, renting a console for 5 days, or playing some game at a friends house is suppose to make you realize which system is for you.

Yes, that's a good point indeed. Considering the line-up is always the best way to choose a system.

[KraftSLU]

yeah, but I wanted to play gunvalk, and I wanted to play pikimin and others, and turns out I hate them. If you have friends with the system, I still think this is the best way to go about it. Sometimes systems just play nice, or you happen to really like the controller and button layout, or maybe you just think its pretty and would look good on the shelf. who knows.

[mechman]

Originally posted by Harry
Then, the second big problem is that Microsoft will charge $9.95 monthly to use the Xbox Live service, while there will be no charges at all to play great part of the online games for the Ps2 - SOCOM U.S. NS, Automodellista, Gameday, Madden, Timesplitters 2. Just imagine an Xbox player forced to pay $9.95 to play TimeSplitters 2 online while a Ps2 owner will play the game for free - that isn't funny, on my opinion. The only online games that Ps2 players will have to pay for the Ps2 are MMORPGs.

Actually, for the first year of Xbox Live, all people will have to buy is the Xbox Live starter kit. It is $49.99, and includes "Revolt", a fun online racing game, the Xbox Live Communicator, and a year's subscription to Xbox Live. There is no $9.95 per month fee, the kit covers a whole year.

If the Ps2 Network Adapter retails for $39.99, the NECESSARY Xbox Live Kit (containing the software and the headset) will not be free: it will cost $49.99. So, where's the difference? And sincerely, as an Xbox owner, I'm quite pissed off at MS for this nice idea. I bought a system thinking that it was ready to go online and now I discover that I have to buy a Starter Kit. That isn't fair.

I'm an Xbox owner and I find this fair. The kit includes a game which retails at $49.99, plus a headset and a year's subscription to Xbox Live. About PS2's hard drive...Large games such as Final Fantasy XI, will require PS2 a hard drive. The hard drive will cost anything from $80-$100. Xbox has one built in.

Yes, the Ps2 doesn't have an HDD, but it's also true that not everybody is interested in games who need this peripheral to be played.

Tons of ppl are interested in Final Fantasy XI. If I had a PS2, I'd be pissed off about the hard drive. Not being able to play FFXI because it requires an $80-$100 hard drive is a huge loss. Xbox is the same price as PS2, yet it includes a hard drive and an ethernet card.


Xbox is going to have a huge lineup of games coming out this year. Over 200 games are expected out by December. I'll name a few: Enclave, GunMetal, Dead to Rights, DOA Xtreme Volleyball, Project Ego, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: KOTOR, Battlefield 1942, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Turok: Evolution, Unreal Championship, Sega GT 2002, Brute Force, Toejam and Earl 3, Shenmue 2, Splinter Cell, Mech Assault, MGS2: substance, Ninja Gaiden, and Blinx.

[Harry]

Originally posted by mechman
Actually, for the first year of Xbox Live, all people will have to buy is the Xbox Live starter kit. It is $49.99, and includes "Revolt", a fun online racing game, the Xbox Live Communicator, and a year's subscription to Xbox Live. There is no $9.95 per month fee, the kit covers a whole year.

Actually, we already said that. And Re-volt is really not even close to TW: B Online...

Originally posted by mechman
I'm an Xbox owner and I find this fair. The kit includes a game which retails at $49.99, plus a headset and a year's subscription to Xbox Live. About PS2's hard drive...Large games such as Final Fantasy XI, will require PS2 a hard drive. The hard drive will cost anything from $80-$100. Xbox has one built in.

Yeah, we said that.

Originally posted by mechman
Tons of ppl are interested in Final Fantasy XI. If I had a PS2, I'd be pissed off about the hard drive. Not being able to play FFXI because it requires an $80-$100 hard drive is a huge loss. Xbox is the same price as PS2, yet it includes a hard drive and an ethernet card.

Sure, but not everybody will be able to play it, especially in Europe. Not everybody can afford to play online games which leads to hours and hours of online gameplay. Including the HDD into the console would have caused a higher retail price for the console. Btw, I hope that the HDD will come bundled with the game to reduce the cost for the persons who simply can't afford to pay 80$ ( this is the price according to unofficial rumors) plus a game.

[AsylumEscapee]

Twisted metal black online included

[KraftSLU]

Just FYI, the revolt package has yet to be confirmed. All that is confirmed is that there will be a game packaged with the live kit, in japan it is PSO. Im hoping MS will NOT package revolt as it is a mediocre title, especially since there are rumors of ms releasing kits with different games circulating. (ie. kit with pso, kit with brute force, kit with revolt*ing*)

[jabrys]

Who the HELL! needs all the statistics. PS2 Rules over any other console hands down just go buy one for christ sake.

[mechman]

Originally posted by jabrys
Who the HELL! needs all the statistics. PS2 Rules over any other console hands down just go buy one for christ sake.

thats not very convincing

[KraftSLU]

Originally posted by jabrys
Who the HELL! needs all the statistics. PS2 Rules over any other console hands down just go buy one for christ sake.

*sniff sniff* God what is that... it smells like... ugh, fanboyism. Take a bath, man.