»

[Aubrey McFatum]

I don't know if this is the right forum. Since manga is sort of japanese version of comics, I think this could be the right place to ask.

Who reads comics? As I said, with comics I mean anything that is not Japanese like manga. What kind of comics you prefer? Is there anybody who collects them? What do you think of the most recent movies taken from comics? For those who read both comics from other countries and manga, which one do you like most and why? Do you think manga is more influencial for comics nowadays or viceversa or do you think they are completely different and indipendent things that have nothing in common?

[merylsilverburg]

Good topic Aubrey.

Originally Posted by Aubrey McFatum

Who reads comics? As I said, with comics I mean anything that is not Japanese like manga.

I used to read American comics but now I mostly read manga. The American comics I used to enjoy were "X-Men" (before they changed artists...the series now are just ugly!), "Witchblade" (same thing...I used to read it before Michael Turner quit to do "Fathom"), and "Danger Girl." Right now, I'm reading a Sherlockian-type mystery comic called "Muse."

Originally Posted by Aubrey McFatum

What kind of comics you prefer?

American-wise, I don't mind the action and thriller/mystery stuff. Manga-wise, I don't mind the girlish romance or the guyish action stories.

Originally Posted by Aubrey McFatum

Is there anybody who collects them?

I don't really collect American comics as much, except maybe "Witchblade." Unforunately, I haven't been able to finish up the whole collection.

Originally Posted by Aubrey McFatum

What do you think of the most recent movies taken from comics?

Well, the recent films such as "X-Men", "Spider-Man", "The Hulk" and "Hellboy" aren't so bad (except I didn't see "The Hulk" which I heard was terrible) and I think they did a good job with these. Of course, they had help with all the CG...I think I admire the comic book movies of the past, such as "Batman" and "Superman" because they created the worlds before the major use of 3D effects.

Originally Posted by Aubrey McFatum

For those who read both comics from other countries and manga, which one do you like most and why?

This is a good question. I think I may prefer manga even though both types have their own uniqueness and styles. American comics are more action-based and more superhero-based and these are done very well. But, some of them don't focus on the emotional level as much...at least to me. Manga has its own very unique style because of the different culture. The jokes are different, the actions/movements are different, and the story is even a bit different. But, I like manga because of the way the story is held...there are many situations mangakas create where I go, "Oh..." as in "I've never thought of that before." Not only that, but manga also has a lot of the shoujo genres which I personally like a lot. And not all the shoujos are necessarily about love and relationships...a very popular shoujo such as Bara no Berusairu ("The Rose of Versailles") is an action-shoujo that focuses on the struggles of the French Revolution and Maria Antoinette. Plus, the art of manga is a little more detailed than American comics, which is probably why I enjoy it a lot more.

Originally Posted by Aubrey McFatum

Do you think manga is more influencial for comics nowadays or viceversa or do you think they are completely different and indipendent things that have nothing in common?

Nowadays, manga is a definite influence on the American comic industry (much to my annoyance, sorry people). Nowadays, there are comics in the American market popping up with very manga-ish style, such as huge eyes, thin and tall bodies, and small noses. What is sad also, is that the American comic industry feels they have to adopt this manga-style in order to keep up with the trend.

I was shopping at Target one night and I came across a comic featuring "Heros" or something like that. It was from Marvel Comics, but on the side of the logo was a huge logo with the Katakana lettering "マンゲール" or "Mangeeru" next to it (if the quoted section comes up in blocks, you have to have Japanese encryption on your computer). I don't even know if "Mangeeru" is even a word in Japanese, but yet it was on the cover. It pissed me off for some reason and I think it's because I don't like how the American market is trying to adopt this manga-style (because they're not even drawing it properly...they think the basic elements is just huge eyes, small nose, and huge hair... ). I mean, this comic from Marvel was very...traditional Marvel superhero elements (with the masks and the capes and the buff bodies) but it had a manga-ish style to it (with the face and the hair). What the hell is that?

Even though it's nice that manga is getting popular in the American comic industry and that many artists and companies are trying to adopt this style, I feel somewhat angered by it. Why? Because for people who have loved this sort of art style for as long as they can remember (like me), they were criticized and ridiculed beyond reason when they mentioned it or drew it (before it was accepted in the US). Now, just because it's getting popular or getting accepted, the motto is "If it ain't manga, it won't sell! So everyone, draw manga-style!!" Okay, what about people like us? Now, when we go around drawing this style (that we have drawn for years), the comments are, "Omigawd, that is soooo cool! You like drawing manga-style? Me too!!" when, 9 years ago, it was all "What is that?! An alien?!"

Also, nowadays, it seems there are more American shoujo comics on the market, thanks to manga. I remember around 7 years ago, I was reading about this one Irish (I think) girl who was drawing this comic where it's about a bunch of teens in high school and their adventures of everyday life. She drew manga-style. It would be considered shoujo...which I think was probably the first to really be loved by Westerners. But, it was because this comic was in reference to the American lifestyle. The most popular shoujo manga at that time were Sailormoon (which had to be changed drastically to fit the US) or Video Girl Ai.
A slapstick, shoujo comedy that was popular was Ranma 1/2, which people enjoyed because of the comedy and the wild dysfunctional family. That was accepted a lot in the US because
1) even though it was a Japanese manga, a lot of the stuff had to be changed to fit the US audience
2) the story had a dysfunctional family, which many of us can relate to...but this was a totally outrageous story of dysfunctionality
3) while the original Japanese storyline was Japanese...it wasn't a pure Japanese story in the sense of real Japanese jokes and traditions
4) it was a comedy with a lot of slapstick in it
Now, if people wanna read a genuine Japanese shoujo story based on a somewhat dsyfunctional family, one manga to read would be "My Neighbor, the Yamadas" (Hohokekyo Tonari no Yamada-kun). These actually are comic strips and not actually manga, but there are so many, they became serialized in a manga form. Of course, some people may not enjoy it because it's not comical enough (comical in the American sense) and because there's a lot of jokes that are just too confusing.

Um...I lost my train of thought...oh yeah! So, what I was saying was, there weren't many shoujo American comics in the past, but because manga came along, now there are more popping up. Particularly on cartoons too (I know this topic is on manga, but I just want to point this out). Stuff like "Totally Spies" (what a disgrace) or "Braceface"...these cartoons are heavily drawn with the manga/anime influence. Would "Totally Spies" had done well in the past? I don't know for sure, but I highly doubt it.

So, yes...manga is definitely an influence on the American comic industry now.

[Reid]

When I was younger I used to read American comics but now I don't really do so as much. The ones I used to like were the superhero ones like X-Men, Spiderman, Gen13 and other ones of that sort.

Now I read some manga here and there, my favourites being Beck and Berserk. I think the main difference is that manga stories usually end up telling a more complex tale that isn't always designed to carry on indefinently. The American comics are usually episodic or have small arcs but don't really do much to tell a story with a definite beginning and end to them. I like stories that I know are going to have some sort of conclusion and are working to continuously get to that end.

I also like how Japanese mangaka both write and draw their work. It seems to make the whole process much more concrete and cohesive. Rather than having a whole team working on one comic a system using one main creator and a few assistants probably allows the work to stay truer to the story being told.

The only American comics I've read recently are Transmetropolitan and a little bit of The Maxx which is really neat. They made a really good cartoon of that as well.

I also agree with meryl in regard to the Japanese influence on American comics. It only really serves to weaken the individuality of American comics when the artists are trying to recreate a Japanese style with many of the works coming out now. Some of them are genuinely influenced and that's alright. When the penciller has grown up watching anime and reading manga it's natural that some of the stylistic undertones would come out in their work but when they try to recreate a style it only weakens what makes American comics unique.

Also, meryl, the word "mangeeru" doesn't mean anything as far as I could find. What's really stupid and irritating about that is that it seems like they tried to spell manga in a English-Japanese romanization way which seems condescending, really. If it means something that I don't know then I feel dumb about saying so but that's the only thing I can think of. What is sort of funny is that the similar word "maneru" means, "to imitate" or "to mimic" which is exactly what they're doing.

[merylsilverburg]

Originally Posted by Reid

I also like how Japanese mangaka both write and draw their work. It seems to make the whole process much more concrete and cohesive. Rather than having a whole team working on one comic a system using one main creator and a few assistants probably allows the work to stay truer to the story being told.

Yes, I also forgot about this point. I think this is also why I enjoy manga a bit more. Though, surprising enough, some mangaka actually use some assistants to help them out. For example, Hirano, Kouta of Hellsing has used some assistants (I think for backgrounds and secondary characters) and mangaka of The Big O used a team. I think it's mostly for very long and drawn out action series that certain mangaka use some help.

Originally Posted by Reid

I also agree with meryl in regard to the Japanese influence on American comics. It only really serves to weaken the individuality of American comics when the artists are trying to recreate a Japanese style with many of the works coming out now. Some of them are genuinely influenced and that's alright. When the penciller has grown up watching anime and reading manga it's natural that some of the stylistic undertones would come out in their work but when they try to recreate a style it only weakens what makes American comics unique.

Yes, I think it's sad to see the American comic market do away with their individualistic style for this trend. But, I can't say I don't understand why...I do. It's all about the money. If manga-style is the latest trend, companies would have to adapt this style in order to gain profit (since no one wants to read/look at American-style comics anymore). The part I underlined in your post, I especially agree with. Those who've grown up reading manga and watching anime would adapt the style because they loved the style and want to emulate it. And, when they draw it, it looks genuinely natural. For those who've just *begun* to get into the manga-style of drawing, their drawings...while good...have that very unnatural and rigid look to them. And at times, it's easy to tell which artists are the ones who've just started adopting this style.

Nowadays though, it's kinda sad, because there are so many of those "How-To-Draw-Manga" books out there, which simply teaches most the basics and complex styles of manga, that some of us didn't have access to in the past. Now, I see many people drawing in their notebooks, this manga-style which they've learned using these "How-To" books. What's also very sad (at least for me) is that some of these people (who hated the manga style and anything Japanese when they were young) are actually aspiring to become mangaka (whether US or Japanese) and they are actually getting somewhere! It really pisses me off! Their art is very good, but some of them use these "How-To" books...practice a little...then suddenly, they're all famous and stuff. And, some of them could use a lot of improving on their art, but they become famous anyway! These "How-To" books are good to use to learn basics, but many people literally depend on them and some actually copy the author's style! Trust me, I've seen it. It's either one of these books or something from DBZ. For shoujo stuff, it's either:
1) Sailormoon
2) Cardcaptor Sakura
3) Anything CLAMP
A lot of them look too similar to one another...they don't have their own unique style or even a variation of their favorite style (like, if you enjoy DBZ, then try to change something to make it unique and your own...not many do this).
Yet, I've heard some say to me, "Yeah, I'm totally going to make Japanimation my career!" Japanimation...oh boy...

Originally Posted by Reid

Also, meryl, the word "mangeeru" doesn't mean anything as far as I could find. What's really stupid and irritating about that is that it seems like they tried to spell manga in a English-Japanese romanization way which seems condescending, really. If it means something that I don't know then I feel dumb about saying so but that's the only thing I can think of. What is sort of funny is that the similar word "maneru" means, "to imitate" or "to mimic" which is exactly what they're doing.

Thanks for that Reid, I didn't think that "mangeeru" was a word. I mean, if they wanted to do a somewhat Romanji way, they could've at least gotten "manga" right and wrote something like "mangaaru" if they wanted to be stupid about it. God, nowadays, there are so many items around that are printed with Japanese hiragana/katakana. But, these don't even make sense/make a word. It's so ridiculous...just as long as they slap Japanese or Chinese writing on anything, it sells (like T-shirts or stationary sets). But, I can't bitch too much about this...because the Asian culture (yes, even Japan) does the same thing with English. T-shirts and bags would have bizarre words/phrases, like "Healthy Plastic" or "Do you feel Summer Time Life?"

[Pu the Owl]

I used to read comics a lot more when I was younger. My mother used to own a bookstore, so at home we had many comic books too. Most of them were classics and older stuff. Among them I could read some superheroes comics, Disney comics, Dick Tracy, Corto Maltese, Tex, Diabolik, Moomin, Mafalda, the Peanuts and many others. Some of them were politically oriented and when I was young I couldn't understand what they were about. Some of the others are probably not very famous among this site's audience (I told you they were old stuff, or also non-American...). I'm not too fond of superheroes comics. I've never really liked the various X-Men, Spiderman, Hulk, Batman etc... But I do like stuff like Peanuts a lot. They're probably one of the best things I had in my childhood, speaking of "literature". And they still are something I adore.

Nowadays I like manga more, in general. But no manga can be like the Peanuts to me. Or at least, the best mangas can be as good as them, even if they're so different that making a comparison would be pretty unfair and pointless. Still, the Peanuts appear to me more as a form of modern poetry, which is something a manga can rarely be.

Probably manga products were influenced by comics at the beginning. Now I find the opposite thing is happening in most cases. Comics are way too serial (not that manga is not a serial product), so to new ideas many comics authors find mangas inspirational and in some cases they end copying Japanese stuff, losing great part of their potential and originality. For example, I can't easily accept a non-Japanese comic copying average manga drawing style.

As for the movies... well, most of them are not that good to be taken into any consideration. The others are just not my genre of movies, really.

Anyway, I'm somewhat ignorant when it comes to comics. I told you I've read them, but apart from few cases, I'm not into this subject at all.

[merylsilverburg]

Originally Posted by Panuru

Probably manga products were influenced by comics at the beginning.

Yes, the famous mangaka and director, Tezuka, Osamu was influenced by the Max Fliesher cartoons (such as "Felix the Cat") and he developed his own story through his inspirations. But, yet...Tezuka was actually able to develop a unique style based upon his influences. This was because American cartoons were very hard to get in Japan at the time and any time "Felix the Cat" came on, he would watch it, but these occasions were rare. So, he was able to develop his own style through his influence and imagination.

[Phenom]

I still read them every once in a while. Pretty much anything Marvel. I use to like DC comics, but "shrugs" guess I grew out of them. (How, I don't know) But majority of the times when I'm not reading them, I am skimming through the pictures since I like the challenge in trying to draw them seeing they have the toughest body structures to draw IMO.

I do prefer America comics over mangas seeing that the only manga's I've ran across didn't grasp my attention. I have collected anything for a long time, but I do have a nice collection of DC and Marvel. (would like to add on for Marvel) Only movies I liked were Spider-man (1 and 2) and The Punisher. X-men, sad to say it was a disappointment to me. Maybe because I'm too use to the cartoon version. A whole lot of things were either skipped or lefted out. It's like they're trying to combine X-men Evolution with the original X-men. Leaving main characters out of the story, and jumping to whole new plots when it's far too early for it. I won't even speak on Hulk. (never was a fan either)

Mangas and Comics can be compared in some ways.... but I don't really like to compare them. I tend to think comics are for more of those 14+ and mangas 9-15. (It's a habit that needs to be broken)

[merylsilverburg]

Originally Posted by Ryu

I tend to think comics are for more of those 14+ and mangas 9-15. (It's a habit that needs to be broken)

Ah, you made a good point there which could be a good topic too. From what you said, they can't compare because they're both different regarding age...but at the same time (IMO) they can compare because they are both, generally, comics in the end.

Yes, comics in the US are really considered for more of an older audience but manga has a variety of age range, believe it or not. Manga actually is considered a form of literature in Japan, while comics (at least from my view) are regarded as somewhat a hobby and entertainment in the US.

Manga is read from all age ranges because there are different categories or genres for everyone. Children, young-adults, teenagers, adults...there is something for everyone. While in the US, manga may be considered for the ages 9-18, manga in Japan are read by people as old as their thirties.

Comics, on the other hand, are very mature and contain highly suggestive themes and situations. Some comics can be too hard for a young person to understand and the fact that comics are done in color can add to the suggestive imagery (with blood, wounds, etc.). These are most likely for the older audience, due to language and imagery.

Yet, at the same time, there are manga which are...hehe...highly inappropriate for young people (I'm talking about the hentai stuff). Yet, in Japan, this isn't such an extreme taboo...since the culture learned to accept their bodies and nudity, so it's not a very big problem. This isn't to say that all Japanese parents allow their kids to read inappropriate stuff! The occasional nudity and sex scene are just not such a major deal though.

However, because comics are so limited to such an age range, it seems manga can be a bit more available to the general audience.

Think about it; comics have mystery, suspense, action, superhero, sci-fi, horror, and more...but these are very mature and for an older audience who can understand the words and can handle the blood and gore and fighting etc.

Manga has the exact same genres but can appeal to young and old audiences: there are young-adult mysteries, there are very mature mysteries, there are action manga for the young and there are some for the old.

[Phenom]

Ah, you made a good point there which could be a good topic too. From what you said, they can't compare because they're both different regarding age...but at the same time (IMO) they can compare because they are both, generally, comics in the end.

Yes, comics in the US are really considered for more of an older audience but manga has a variety of age range, believe it or not. Manga actually is considered a form of literature in Japan, while comics (at least from my view) are regarded as somewhat a hobby and entertainment in the US.

Manga is read from all age ranges because there are different categories or genres for everyone. Children, young-adults, teenagers, adults...there is something for everyone. While in the US, manga may be considered for the ages 9-18, manga in Japan are read by people as old as their thirties.

Comics, on the other hand, are very mature and contain highly suggestive themes and situations. Some comics can be too hard for a young person to understand and the fact that comics are done in color can add to the suggestive imagery (with blood, wounds, etc.). These are most likely for the older audience, due to language and imagery.

Yet, at the same time, there are manga which are...hehe...highly inappropriate for young people (I'm talking about the hentai stuff). Yet, in Japan, this isn't such an extreme taboo...since the culture learned to accept their bodies and nudity, so it's not a very big problem. This isn't to say that all Japanese parents allow their kids to read inappropriate stuff! The occasional nudity and sex scene are just not such a major deal though.

However, because comics are so limited to such an age range, it seems manga can be a bit more available to the general audience.

Think about it; comics have mystery, suspense, action, superhero, sci-fi, horror, and more...but these are very mature and for an older audience who can understand the words and can handle the blood and gore and fighting etc.

Manga has the exact same genres but can appeal to young and old audiences: there are young-adult mysteries, there are very mature mysteries, there are action manga for the young and there are some for the old.

Side note.... do you ever get tired of typing?
(that's quite alot to read)

Back on topic. I get what your saying. I do need to break that habit too, but it's quite hard to do since everytime I go some where like Suncoast for example. They sell animes and mangas from time to time, but everytime I go there looking for a Rurouni Kenshin manga or whatnot... I see either Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh. Same thing at FYE.... so I'm like forget it, and start to assume that mangas are for those around the age of 9-15.

[merylsilverburg]

Originally Posted by Ryu

Side note.... do you ever get tired of typing?
(that's quite alot to read)

Hehe, if you think this was a lot, you don't wanna see my early 2002 posts. I'm sorry for my long posts. It's just that I get very passionate about certain things (especially anime/manga) and my mind just wanders as I type. Plus, I just wanna make sure I get my point across since I get misunderstood a lot.

Originally Posted by Ryu

Back on topic. I get what your saying. I do need to break that habit too, but it's quite hard to do since everytime I go some where like Suncoast for example. They sell animes and mangas from time to time, but everytime I go there looking for a Rurouni Kenshin manga or whatnot... I see either Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh. Same thing at FYE.... so I'm like forget it, and start to assume that mangas are for those around the age of 9-15.

I highly suggest bookstores, such as Borders or Barnes and Nobles...they carry shelves of manga now, so you can get your action (I believe you were the one who enjoys action stuff) manga, like Rurouni Kenshin, Samurai Deeper Kyo, Naruto and more.