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[Spank-A-Thon]

Nice to see Half-Life 2 has totally lived up to my expections and is as highly regarded by me as the first one. Very enjoyable but obscenely over-rated, just like the first. It's good, but not the masterpiece it's proclaimed to be.

The biggest issue with HL2 that I have is simple; there is no possibility for replay.

After the splendidness of Deus Ex which provided a more free-form game mechanic, HL2's "on-rails" approach seems very dated. No matter how slowly I creep up on enemy characters, they have the amazing ability to see/sense me coming from miles away.

I have no options - I have to go in guns blazing. I am not given the option to stealthily creep around, taking guards out quietly and avoiding detection. Each sequence can only be completed in "one" way. Once you've been into each sequence, you know exactly what is going to happen and hence the element of suprise or excitement is severley derailed; it's actually in your benefit to "scout" the level first, die and restart it. No variety is possible with it being so heavily scripted.

Yes, the graphics are superb and the physics are tremendous - but the actual gameplay is severley limited. No scope for invention or guile, and as for the numerous "set-pieces"; they work... once. I can see HL2 being consigned to the "play-once" bin alongside MGS2 and the original HL - there's no way I'll want to sit through all those unskippable set-pieces again.

I just have to wonder what Valve have been doing for the past few years - whilst there is no doubt that the Source engine is top drawer, it would appear they forgot to develop a truly outstanding and innovative game to go with it.

And Steam is a pain in the ass.

- S

[RobHardo]

I would like to take this time to congratulate Spank for this marvelous post. My brother has an X-Box at his house , and yes we kill hours when I go over there and we have a good 'ole multi-player time. The problem is I like single player games just as much as online or multiplayer. In the numerous times I have played Halo1(and recently 2) I find that I have yet to beat either games' single player campaigns. They bore me to sleep, the only mind oogling experience is the world around you, which isn't very.....very.....interactive, to say the least.

But in a less biased remark, Master Chief sneekin' around like a ninja wouldnt be very satisfying for those times when you just wanna shoot something. If you want to sneek up on somebody, play Hitman Contracts or Thief. Halo, in my honest opinion, was designed for the sole purpose for hard workers who hate their bosses I mean think about it. All the nasty things you think about your boss end up resembling the Covenant and the Flood creatures. Am i right?

[Chara]

Yea, my same argument. People are hailing this as the best game of all time, and I just find it as a great game. But I do kinda wish I used the money to buy MGS3 or GTAA. I am just repeating you here but the game is just way too linear and has no replay value. Once I finished I really didnt want to play again like I did with Knights of the Old Repulic, or Final Fantasy X. Those are games I could play to death... HL2 I couldnt, since there was little more than what you saw your first time around. It really is a somewhat mindless shooter, with some nice puzzles thrown in.

Also the ending was very[ dissapointing. There wasnt even a boss battle, it just abruptly ended. Even HL1 had that Nilianth (or however you spell it) to beat before you beat the game. There was also the fact that after the end of the game I was even more confused as to what the hell was going on than when I started playing. I still dont even know why I was in city 17 in the first place... at least in HL1 I knew why I was fighting aliens. I really would've liked a part where you sat down in Eli's lab and they told you what happened. I read somewhere that valve did have parts like this but took it out because they felt it would bore the player.

I am also tired of all these damn cliffhangers... jesus, I swear I am going to blow up the next game developer that releases a game which has a cliffhanger ending.

Well, at least I think the game is better than Doom 3, which like HL2, had a great engine but a game that wasnt as revolutionary. But I actually enjoyed playing through HL2, while I couldnt even bother to finish Doom 3.

[kupoartist]

What can I say but it's a game that's flawed simply because of 6 years of wild expectations. People are judging it against a Benchmark that doesn't actually exist.

[RobHardo]

I made a big mistake, I saw the Hal in Half Life and thought Halo 2. either way my opinion is the same.

[kupoartist]

”After the splendidness of Deus Ex which provided a more free-form game mechanic, HL2's "on-rails" approach seems very dated.”

The “on-rails” approach would have been dated but for the small problem that every single FPS game in the four years since Deus Ex has also done an “on-rails” approach. DE wasn’t a trend-setter. In fact, the only game it inspired was its sequel, a game which makes a perfect study for “How not to do a game sequel”. What’s more, Deus Ex is nearly as much on rails as HL is – it doesn’t matter what your choices are, because sooner a later you’re forced to make them anyway.

“No matter how slowly I creep up on enemy characters, they have the amazing ability to see/sense me coming from miles away.
I have no options - I have to go in guns blazing. I am not given the option to stealthily creep around, taking guards out quietly and avoiding detection. Each sequence can only be completed in "one" way. Once you've been into each sequence, you know exactly what is going to happen and hence the element of suprise or excitement is severley derailed; it's actually in your benefit to "scout" the level first, die and restart it. No variety is possible with it being so heavily scripted.”

Actually, I’ve managed to sneak up on combine soldiers more times than I would have wanted to. What makes stealth possible, is crap AI. HL2 isn’t a stealth game, why would it be? Your problem surely can’t be HL2 alone, because all FPS games suffer from this ‘problem’, which deserves the inverted commas because I replay FPS games to re-experience the good bits, just like I’d watch any good film. Is it a bad thing when the Lobby scene in the Matrix plays out exactly the same way everytime I watch it? In a game like HL2, every battle ends up a little different anyway, because of the AI. Sure, I’ll always end up shooting them, but that’s what the “S” in “FPS” means.

”I just have to wonder what Valve have been doing for the past few years - whilst there is no doubt that the Source engine is top drawer, it would appear they forgot to develop a truly outstanding and innovative game to go with it.”

This is just simply unfair. The design work alone looks like it took double the amount of time they actually spent on it. HL2 isn’t a game that piles on bucket loads of innovation, but please remind me where else I’ve seen Physics done anything like the level of interactivity that is in HL2? The FPS genre isn’t the best place to be developing if you want to innovate. Most of your design brief is contained in that one acronym. I seriously doubt anyone will come up with the level of innovation, no matter how small, that Valve managed here.

”And Steam is a pain in the ass.”

It doesn’t bother me as much as it should. If it sets the trend and kills off the publishers and lets the people who actually make the games get the money for their hard-work, I can’t say I have any protests. It was a little wobbly on release day, but It hasn’t really been that bad since.

“Yea, my same argument. People are hailing this as the best game of all time, and I just find it as a great game. But I do kinda wish I used the money to buy MGS3 or GTA A. I am just repeating you here but the game is just way too linear and has no replay value. Once I finished I really didnt want to play again like I did with Knights of the Old Repulic, or Final Fantasy X. Those are games I could play to death...”

The problem seems to be the hype… it’s attracted people with promises of what amounts to the second coming of Christ or something, when they’re not actually all that bothered by the genre. Comparing the replayability of an FPS – any FPS – with an RPG isn’t really valid. They’re entirely different things. As I’ve already said, it’s just a case of whether the great bits draw you back.

“Also the ending was very[ dissapointing. There wasnt even a boss battle, it just abruptly ended. Even HL1 had that Nilianth (or however you spell it) to beat before you beat the game.”

The Nihlianth was crap and so was Xen though. Games don’t really need a boss anymore, though I have to admit, the final “battle” wasn’t as well designed, intense or interesting as other moments in the game. Actually, yeah it sucked

“There was also the fact that after the end of the game I was even more confused as to what the hell was going on than when I started playing. I still dont even know why I was in city 17 in the first place...”

I think that’s kind of the whole point of the game though. You’ve taken the G-Man’s magical mystery tour, and that’s that. That said though, it does help to be observant, because there are a few fine details to pick up on. It’s a storytelling method that will delight some, but irate everyone else: Nothing is said, everything is seen

“I am also tired of all these damn cliffhangers... jesus, I swear I am going to blow up the next game developer that releases a game which has a cliffhanger ending.”

Hehe… though if you didn’t see it coming from a mile off, I pity you
My conclusion: HL2 is the one of the best FPS games ever made. It innovates a little, and brings together all the best elements of the pure games of the genre (no, hybrids don’t count). It’s hardly one giant leap forward from the rest, but it’s still better than nearly every single one of them. And yes, this is the face of all the things that I hate but you guys haven’t mentioned: The lack of a “NO, I mean STAY HERE and don’t F**KING move” button for commanding the soft-as poo Allied AI. The fact that I played the multiplayer 4 years ago and I still hate it and the total lack of HL1’s defining “Intermediate Bosses” (Gargantua and Tentacles: Cooked, Fried or Airstriked). Sure, I don’t doubt that you can name a better game, but that’s not my point. HL2 is a certain type of game, and I think people need to remember that ^^

[dan da man]

As we all learnt now Hype kills games, killed halo 2 for sure, killzone didn’t live up to it hype as halo killer, GTA SA was hyped up so much it could of popped, guess what it wasn’t the greatest game of all time, Half life 2 was hailed the greatest game off all time if plenty of magazines and website, it’s these things make the hype and spoil games, because when we see amazing feature after feature, beautiful graphics from hype and one piece of the puzzle is missing in the final game all we do is complain, I’m never going to believe in hype again, because all I do is build my hopes up and its turns out to be not what I expected.

[Faile]

I don't know what game you were playing but Half Life 2 is the best PC game I have ever played. Can anyone here name a better PC game?
No.

[kupoartist]

Originally Posted by kupoartist

The fact that I played the multiplayer 4 years ago and I still hate it

I had my suspicions but this "problem" was fixed last night.

[Spank-A-Thon]

Originally Posted by kupoartist

The “on-rails” approach would have been dated but for the small problem that every single FPS game in the four years since Deus Ex has also done an “on-rails” approach. DE wasn’t a trend-setter. In fact, the only game it inspired was its sequel, a game which makes a perfect study for “How not to do a game sequel”. What’s more, Deus Ex is nearly as much on rails as HL is – it doesn’t matter what your choices are, because sooner a later you’re forced to make them anyway.

Whilst the plot of DE is on-rails, I strongly protest that the game play is. For example, my first time through DE I chose to specialise with weapons and blast my way though. Second time I chose more infiltration/stealth skills which lead to a different experience within the same game. Yes, the end result was the same but the journey was different.

Originally Posted by kupoartist

Actually, I’ve managed to sneak up on combine soldiers more times than I would have wanted to. What makes stealth possible, is crap AI. HL2 isn’t a stealth game, why would it be? Your problem surely can’t be HL2 alone, because all FPS games suffer from this ‘problem’, which deserves the inverted commas because I replay FPS games to re-experience the good bits, just like I’d watch any good film. Is it a bad thing when the Lobby scene in the Matrix plays out exactly the same way everytime I watch it? In a game like HL2, every battle ends up a little different anyway, because of the AI. Sure, I’ll always end up shooting them, but that’s what the “S” in “FPS” means.

Firstly, let's get the definition of "stealth" correct. I do not mean stealth such as that in Splinter Cell or MGS, but give me the chance to at least approach a level in some tactical way. Allow me to maybe sneak past guards rather than blatantly run past. HL2 does not allow any options on how to approach a level. It's really that simple.

The comparison with film is not really valid though; of course it's going to be exactly the same every time but that is expected.

However, with FPS' I play to shoot things, not watch unskippable sequences hence why UT stills gets an outing whereas HL2 will be played once.

Originally Posted by kupoartist

This is just simply unfair. The design work alone looks like it took double the amount of time they actually spent on it. HL2 isn’t a game that piles on bucket loads of innovation, but please remind me where else I’ve seen Physics done anything like the level of interactivity that is in HL2? The FPS genre isn’t the best place to be developing if you want to innovate. Most of your design brief is contained in that one acronym. I seriously doubt anyone will come up with the level of innovation, no matter how small, that Valve managed here.

There was no innovation in HL2 - zero - none - nada. All they did was produce an amazing Physics engine. This is hardly innovative. Realistic physics has been attempted in countless games, it just so happens Valve have pulled it off the best thus far. That's not innovation but simply evoution.

The original Half-Life was innovative in terms of applying scripts and storylines to FPS's. It's my opinion that Deus Ex was innovative in the way it allowed you freedom. HL2 is nothing but an improvement over the original. Besides the better graphics and better physics, tell me one thing HL2 does that the first doesn't.

I believe there is plently of potential left in FPS - just no one has come up with anything for a few years.

Originally Posted by kupoartist

My conclusion: HL2 is the one of the best FPS games ever made. It innovates a little, and brings together all the best elements of the pure games of the genre (no, hybrids don’t count). It’s hardly one giant leap forward from the rest, but it’s still better than nearly every single one of them. And yes, this is the face of all the things that I hate but you guys haven’t mentioned: The lack of a “NO, I mean STAY HERE and don’t F**KING move” button for commanding the soft-as poo Allied AI. The fact that I played the multiplayer 4 years ago and I still hate it and the total lack of HL1’s defining “Intermediate Bosses” (Gargantua and Tentacles: Cooked, Fried or Airstriked). Sure, I don’t doubt that you can name a better game, but that’s not my point. HL2 is a certain type of game, and I think people need to remember that ^^

I agree that HL2 is one of the best FPS' made - that's not exactly a hard claim to make. I can count on one hard the number of truly great FPS'.... but to say it's the finest PC game is preposterous. Yes it was hyped to hell and this always raises expectations but I still say it offers little extra over the original. Therefore it's not the innovative masterpiece it has been claimed to be but simply a "really good" game.

As for Steam, I've had nothing but problems with it. I can't even authenticate against the Steam servers at the moment, and the fabled "off-line" mode of HL2 is not working.

So the game I paid for and own, I cannot play because of their trousers infrastructure. Steam is a travesty in the gaming world and has no place here!

- S

[Spank-A-Thon]

Originally Posted by Faile

I don't know what game you were playing but Half Life 2 is the best PC game I have ever played. Can anyone here name a better PC game?
No.

Dangerous territory there Faile. Opinions are like arseholes - everyone's got one and unfortunately "best" is always based on opinion and cannot be possibly measured.

To that end I could name you a dozen or so PC games I consider to be "better" than Half-Life 2....

As an example; since October 2003 I have been playing Star Wars Galaxies at least 3-4 times a week, and if you know anything about the game you will understand that it's not something you can dip in and out of.

Will I still be playing Half-Life 2 that much after a year? Definitely not so therefore to me, SWG is infinitely superior... but I know some people who would say different.

Different strokes for different folks, but I could certainly list some games and justify why they're "better" in my eyes.

- S

[kupoartist]

Originally Posted by Spank-A-Thon

To that end I could name you a dozen or so PC games I consider to be "better" than Half-Life 2....

But surely this is the point. It seems blindingly obvious to me that FPS games do not constitute your favorite genre. Yes, calling something "the best PC game ever" is very unstable territory, because FPS games aren't everyone's favorite. But to create a thread saying "Half-Life 2 is a let down" is pretty ridiculous when you're clearly not that interested in the game in the first place. The flaws you find in it are the product of wishing the game was something it was never intended to be, nor ever will be.

Originally Posted by Spank-A-Thon

There was no innovation in HL2 - zero - none - nada. All they did was produce an amazing Physics engine. This is hardly innovative. Realistic physics has been attempted in countless games, it just so happens Valve have pulled it off the best thus far. That's not innovation but simply evoution.

Please show me a game that actually integrates Physics into the gameplay itself. All other games with Physics engines just have them as an extra bit of eye candy. HL2 is the first game to allow Physics to open up gameplay choices. That is innovation. So are many of the graphics features in the game. Things like Facial Expressions, Shader effects, advanced animation and lip-synching are virtually without peers in the entire of gaming. Sure, Graphics aren't everything, but if you're going to make sweeping generalisations about the total lack of innovation in a game that cleary has at least some....

Originally Posted by Spank-A-Thon

However, with FPS' I play to shoot things, not watch unskippable sequences hence why UT stills gets an outing whereas HL2 will be played once.

There must be perhaps 5 "unskippable sequences" in HL2, and all are excellent anyway, so I really don't understand your problem. UT is a very different beast once again anyway. How can a Competative Multiplayer FPS be in any way compared to a Story-Driven Single Player FPS? And how are you able to forgive the deep repeatativeness of a game like UT but bemoan something that isn't nearly as repeatative: Vehicles, Squad Battles and puzzles break up the shooting anyone?.

[Spank-A-Thon]

Originally Posted by kupoartist

But surely this is the point. It seems blindingly obvious to me that FPS games do not constitute your favorite genre. Yes, calling something "the best PC game ever" is very unstable territory, because FPS games aren't everyone's favorite. But to create a thread saying "Half-Life 2 is a let down" is pretty ridiculous when you're clearly not that interested in the game in the first place. The flaws you find in it are the product of wishing the game was something it was never intended to be, nor ever will be.

Woooah... steady on Chief! I don't particularly have a "favourite genre", but given that I currently have HL1 & 2, DE, Halo and UT 2004 installed on my PC, I think we can establish that I do like FPS'. (Incidentally, on my shelf also currently sits Sys Shock 2, No One Lives Forever, SWAT, UT2K3, UT, Dark Forces, AvP 1 & 2, Quake III and Hidden & Dangerous)

So now we've got that out of the way, I think I'm perfectly entitled to make a thread saying HL2 is a let down, because I think it is. Despite the hype and proclamations of it being the best thing ever since sliced bread, it's nothing more than a hi-gloss remake of HL1.

Originally Posted by kupoartist

Please show me a game that actually integrates Physics into the gameplay itself. All other games with Physics engines just have them as an extra bit of eye candy. HL2 is the first game to allow Physics to open up gameplay choices. That is innovation. So are many of the graphics features in the game. Things like Facial Expressions, Shader effects, advanced animation and lip-synching are virtually without peers in the entire of gaming. Sure, Graphics aren't everything, but if you're going to make sweeping generalisations about the total lack of innovation in a game that cleary has at least some....

Actually, I'd say that Red Faction made better use of a "physics" engine that opened up gameplay choices. Taking out pillars near enemies would cause things to collapse and kill them. Blowing holes in walls to get to other rooms... Admittedly Red Faction (and it's sequel) might not have done it as nice looking or realistic as HL2 - but they did do it first.

I honestly fail to see where the physics engine has opened up new gameplay options. Boxes floating in water - done. Cranes - done. Gravity Gun.... great fun, but why can I only interact with certain things? I can move one wrecked car, but not a different similarly sized one?? I can send a car flying with the grav gun, but do nothing to a wooden door?

Character animation, lip syncing, etc - seen it before. Again, not as polished but it's been done in earlier games.... for example... Half Life 1. Or how about the GameCube remake of Resident Evil? That has great acting/lip-syncing/character animation in the non-CG cut scenes.

With your examples you're in fact destroying any credibility your argument has. I can give you examples of where it's been done before, which means this is evolution and not innovation.

Originally Posted by kupoartist

There must be perhaps 5 "unskippable sequences" in HL2, and all are excellent anyway, so I really don't understand your problem. UT is a very different beast once again anyway. How can a Competative Multiplayer FPS be in any way compared to a Story-Driven Single Player FPS? And how are you able to forgive the deep repeatativeness of a game like UT but bemoan something that isn't nearly as repeatative: Vehicles, Squad Battles and puzzles break up the shooting anyone?.

It's not just the unskippleable sequence, it's the whole fact everything is so scripted. Once you've seen everything, that's it - you know what to expect.

You mention repetitiveness - well, I suppose at a basic level all games are repetitive; after all they're nothing but a series of mouse clicks/button presses. And again, at a basic level I suppose UT is repetitve.... but each time I play there is uncertainty. Am I going to win? How many kills will I get? Where's the health? Etc...

With HL2 there is the unknown of where the guards will appear from... but things like attack choppers, towers falling and buildings exploding are not unexpected. Once you've been through a level, you know for certain that certain things will happen.

As for puzzles, well - again they're only good once. Once you know the solution they become nothing more than a hinderance on a replay.

It's obvious you're a "fanboi" so to speak (no offence meant) and it's cool that you have found something in HL2 that I obviously haven't. But I still think I'm within my rights to say I think it's a letdown and doesn't offer anything new or innovative to either gaming as a whole, or the FPS genre.

In fact, I'm so confident of this that I challenge you (in a friendly way of course) to list the things that make HL2 an "innovation" over the original game. Tell what I'm missing; tell me the innovative features of HL2. If you can convince me that HL2 offers anything that the first didn't and I can't make any convincing counter-argument, I'll be happy to hold my hands up and say "you're right".

As someone who's a) not keen on Microsoft and their business ethics, and b) not a fan of the XBox, it pains me to say but I think Halo (yes, the first one) is a better and more enjoyable experience than HL2 plus it has much more replayability value. But as always, this is just my opinion.

Oooh, I love a good discussion me!

- S

[DSgamer]

wow i actualy read all of that :-P

stop arguing both of you! look at you guys arguing over a game that had a lot of hype, who cares if the game is repetitive after you beat it i enjoyed it, a lot of people enjoyed it. what we're you expecting? its half life everything is scripted its just like the first one and a lot of people liked the first one, and the second one as well. i cant wait for whats next, most likely a buncha mods n expansions, who cares if the game is repetitive bro, theres gona b a bazillion mods n expansions maybe you'll even get to play as one of those alien things that help you lol anyways "meng" take a chill pill (goes to both of u)

[Spank-A-Thon]

Originally Posted by gamer

wow i actualy read all of that :-P

stop arguing both of you! look at you guys arguing over a game that had a lot of hype, who cares if the game is repetitive after you beat it i enjoyed it, a lot of people enjoyed it. what we're you expecting? its half life everything is scripted its just like the first one and a lot of people liked the first one, and the second one as well. i cant wait for whats next, most likely a buncha mods n expansions, who cares if the game is repetitive bro, theres gona b a bazillion mods n expansions maybe you'll even get to play as one of those alien things that help you lol anyways "meng" take a chill pill (goes to both of u)

We're not arguing - it's what I prefer to call "intelligent discussion"; I mean, that what these forums are for after all!

Besides, where's the fun if we all agree on everything? Plus I like discussing with Kupo - you're always guaranteed to get well written, intelligent and reasoned posts which is much better than the "Half-Life 0wnz you suxx0rz!" kinda replies I've seen on other boards!

- S

[kupoartist]

Originally Posted by Spank-A-Thon

As someone who's a) not keen on Microsoft and their business ethics, and b) not a fan of the XBox, it pains me to say but I think Halo (yes, the first one) is a better and more enjoyable experience than HL2 plus it has much more replayability value. But as always, this is just my opinion.

This is quite frankly bizarre... Halo 1 (and no direspect to Halo 2, which may have ironed it all out) is my personal pet hate. I have never, ever played a more repeatative, over-hyped FPS in my life. It's ammusing to think that it has more replay value really. On one trip through the game, you must replay nearly every mission twice. In every mission, you must run down the same prefabricated area at least five times (or if you're in "the library", 30 times), fighting the same enemies you were fighting at the beginning of the game. All of Halo's appeal was in the graphics - the design of which was at times desperately dull. How Halo 1 can be mentioned in the same sentance as HL2 is beyond me... IMO ^^

Originally Posted by Spank-A-Thon

I honestly fail to see where the physics engine has opened up new gameplay options. Boxes floating in water - done. Cranes - done. Gravity Gun.... great fun, but why can I only interact with certain things? I can move one wrecked car, but not a different similarly sized one?? I can send a car flying with the grav gun, but do nothing to a wooden door?

The design has to accomdate the fact that you can't allow your player to do EVERYTHING. In the industry, Valve were actually severely panned when they first showed off HL2 because no-one honestly believed that you could make a game that would allow enough freedom, yet stop you from "breaking" the game. I guess it's subjective whether you feel that it achieved that, but I think you still have to be realistic. Like I've already said, HL2 isn't one giant leap, just a small step forward (just a larger step than most games, which tend towards making only tiny steps forward). That's how games develop.

Incidently, I can't say I've noticed any problems with not being able to move "similarly sized" cars. I've knocked many about without any problem... I think also we approach innovation in different ways. Is the first thing to do something truely the innovator? Well, by definition I suppose it is, but to me, that the far, far more important game is the one that gets it spot on. HL2 is that game. Perhaps it's just a case of "innovation" being an unsuitable way of expressing it... yet I think "evolution" is simply too tame for the distance between HL2's features and those of any other example you could care to name.

Originally Posted by Spank-A-Thon

And again, at a basic level I suppose UT is repetitve.... but each time I play there is uncertainty. Am I going to win? How many kills will I get? Where's the health? Etc...

But surely all these variables are in HL2 as well?

Originally Posted by Spank-A-Thon

I don't particularly have a "favourite genre", but given that I currently have HL1 & 2, DE, Halo and UT 2004 installed on my PC, I think we can establish that I do like FPS'.

Originally Posted by Spank-A-Thon

I agree that HL2 is one of the best FPS' made - that's not exactly a hard claim to make. I can count on one hard the number of truly great FPS'....

That threw me somewhat, so I apologise for the misunderstanding ^^

Originally Posted by Spank-A-Thon

It's obvious you're a "fanboi" so to speak (no offence meant)

Must everyone who likes a game and argues for its virtues always be a "fanboi"? ^^ Ok, so it's fairly obvious that I like HL2, but I always associate "fanboi" status with an unerring inability to accept the flaws of a game or whatever, something which I have done a number of times in this thread, or would have done if the thread had actually strayed on to the things that I really do hate about HL2. It is not a perfect game, no game is. It is just better than many or most games of its type and possibly beyond the genre (if they are at all comparable, which they aren't because the ability to enjoy each genre is subjective).

Originally Posted by Spank-A-Thon

In fact, I'm so confident of this that I challenge you (in a friendly way of course) to list the things that make HL2 an "innovation" over the original game. Tell what I'm missing; tell me the innovative features of HL2. If you can convince me that HL2 offers anything that the first didn't and I can't make any convincing counter-argument, I'll be happy to hold my hands up and say "you're right".

Accurate Physics Modelling: Yes I'm aware that in HL1 you could move objects, but that was majorly innaccurate. Now, you can effect everything in the environment So long as it's actually possible for a weedy ginger-goateed scientist to do something to it (Unlike Deus Ex 2's "Everything flies all over the place" philosophy). One little thing I particuarly like about the physics, is the ability to shoot grenades back: Not just with the gravity gun, but with any gun.
Material PropertiesEvery Texture inbues an object with certain properties. Its boyancy, its durability, how it will break, what it sounds like when hit or walked over how far it will travel and other things tied in with the game's physics. Whilst some objects in HL1 could do some of these things, HL2 gives every object in the world it's own properties.
Shadows Both Pre-Rendered and Rendered, and looking extremely accurate. Shame about the occasional troubles with objects "shadowing" through other objects, but the fact that shadows are in at all is an innovation
3D Skyboxes: No more Cubes with sky textures painted on: the skies in HL2 have actual physical, scaled objects in them.
Lip-SynchingNo "Flap you mouth open and closed quickly to simiulate speaking" disease.
Facial ModellingOf which the above is part of. The use of "muscles" to shape the face into certain expressions. The Body animations are far in advance also, making them innovative.
Improved AI Whilst a lot of the Combine behaviour is very similar to HL1's soldiers, the AI has been extended to show less cracks. A good example is the fact that if you're directly below a soldier, they will fire back at you. In HL1, they'd didn't happily just stand there getting pummeled away. The Allied AI is also far better, and able to pick up better weapons which is pretty useful. Perhaps this all isn't innovation, but it does make the game noticeably better. AI that is capable of following you quite some way perhaps is innovation.
ShadersAn extension to basic texturing, allowing light to actually interact with surfaces. I can't actually think of another game where this is implemented in, but I'm sure i'm wrong (Farcry?)
Rendered Monitor ScreensA nice one this... the ability to display any event on a surface as it happens. The Breencasts, Comunitcations with Alyx / Eli and Surveilance cameras actually show events being acted out somewhere in the level itself. HL2 didn't necessarily implement this in the coolest possible way (I mean, you have to noclip to find where most of these events are actually being acted out), but it's an excellent innovation over a game which gave you a static texture.
Ragdolls and Severable bodies Neither were in HL1. Goodbye to rigid corpses.
Vehicles: If you argue that the On A Rail train somehow counts, I will hit you
"Trippy" effectsThe G-Man's speech to you, and the way that the model becomes transparent or layers over a backdrop. I can't think where i've ever seen that before.
Bump-Mapping, Particles, Texture Compression and all the other graphics based wow-ness of the last 6 years are an innovation over HL1.
Physics enabled multiplayer Perhaps i'm running out of ideas, but it is different.
The Secondary Fire on the Plasma Rifle It bounces around at high velocity and causes people to suddenly start burning and float up into the air. Just a good example of an effect I've never seen anywhere before.
Female Characters. Well, there weren't any in the original ^^ (Sssh about the Hologram already!])

There may be others, and I'm sure you'll find ways to counter-argue these. I think it's essentially a case of us agreeing to disagree ^^

[Chara]

Well... the only true innovations are the facial modeling, and the physics. The rest are really just expected due to the advancing technology, and the fact every other current game has it...