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[goodman]

I dont think Sony has ever had huge plans for the ps2 online, that is why its taken them so long to get even the average set up that they have. Xbox live is without question a better set up, and im neither a opponent or proponent of either, just being broadband only make Xbox live a more viable setup...

[Vicious_2003]

First of all im not clumsy usually im throwing the controller but im saying PS2 controllers arent made as well and dont take wear and tear very well. And hey X Box killer. I stated clearly that thier is NOT now a monthly fee for X Box Live, its better than Sonys online garbage and it costs about the same as the network adapter, plus Sony's selling a seperate headset in the near future that will cost even more, and yes I can make a price issue out of this because thier is one, X Box is the better bargain hands down barring any serious product failures and im yet to experience one so Ill keep ya posted. Most of the counter points that any of you have made have been derivitive and un proven by any accounts ive studies up on.

[Spank-A-Thon]

Originally posted by Weapon_XZ84

First of all im not clumsy usually im throwing the controller but im saying PS2 controllers arent made as well and dont take wear and tear very well.

What do you expect if you throw your controllers? That's like saying a car is not well made because it's get damaged when you drive it into a wall...

However there is ample evidence within this thread that proves SONY controllers are well made. The majority of people here have not have any problems with them and in general find the SONY controller more comfortable than the XBox controller.

And hey X Box killer. I stated clearly that thier is NOT now a monthly fee for X Box Live, its better than Sonys online garbage and it costs about the same as the network adapter, plus Sony's selling a seperate headset in the near future that will cost even more, and yes I can make a price issue out of this because thier is one, X Box is the better bargain hands down barring any serious product failures and im yet to experience one so Ill keep ya posted.

SONYs on-line service is a completely different model to Live. Live is all based around a central Microsoft service, much like MSN Gaming Zone. This means you have no choice as a consumer - you have to use M$ service whether you want to or not.

The SONY on-line service follows the PC model. Capcom will have their on-line service for their on-line games. Squaresoft already have PlayOnline. SONY will have their service for their games and so on. This way I can choose who's service I want to use - I will not be forced to always use SONY's service.

XBox may well be a better bargain - but then again so is a Ford Fiesta. But what if I prefer to drive Honda? You may get less for more money - but I prefer Honda... Whether something is a bargain or not is irrelevant - that makes no difference to the quality of something.

So you've had no serious product failures with the XBox. I should expect not. But guess what - I've had none with my PSX, PS2, Dreamcast or GameCube... There's plenty of people in this thread who have said they've had no product failures.... So what exactly is your point? I fail to see one...

Most of the counter points that any of you have made have been derivitive and un proven by any accounts ive studies up on.

Derivative??? Unproven???

You obviously know little about M$ products. I can provide numerous links to proof about the lack of quality of M$ products. I'd love to know what accounts you've studied.... MicrosoftLovers.com maybe? What about BillGatesIsMyDad.com? Maybe even XBoxRulezPS2SuxDoooooooood.com....

If you're going to call everyone's counter-arguements 'derivative' and 'unproven' then explain why. Give proof why you call them that. An arguement is 100 times more convincing when it's backed up with evidence...

- S

[mark0™]

Hey Spank can you put up some links to prove MS's bad program qualities? I know MS is bad, everyone bashes them, but All I really know thats bad about them is that they dont give you the Program complete and you need updates and patches continuously and that the Source code is blocked off, which Is why a lot of serious computer users use OS's like Linus and Unix because they can edit the source code, but thats no use to me as the only programming I know is a little BASIC.

I do beleive you on MS's evilness but just want to see some hard evidence on what is really wrong with it.

[Spank-A-Thon]

Originally posted by mark0

Hey Spank can you put up some links to prove MS's bad program qualities?

Sure, I'll post a few links that deal only with Win XP.

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS01-054 Invalid Universal Plug and Play Request can Disrupt System Operation

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS01-059 Unchecked Buffer in Universal Plug and Play can Lead to System Compromise

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-006Unchecked Buffer in SNMP Service Could Enable Arbitrary Code to be Run

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-008 XMLHTTP Control Can Allow Access to Local Files

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-017 Unchecked buffer in the Multiple UNC Provider Could Enable Code Execution (Q311967)

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-029 Unchecked Buffer in Remote Access Service Phonebook Could Lead to Code Execution (Q318138)

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-050 Certificate Validation Flaw Could Enable Identity Spoofing (Q329115)

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-051 Cryptographic Flaw in RDP Protocol can Lead to Information Disclosure (Q324380)

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-053 Buffer Overrun in SmartHTML Interpreter Could Allow Code Execution (Q324096)

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-054 Unchecked Buffer in File Decompression Functions Could Lead to Code Execution (Q329048)

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-055 Unchecked Buffer in Windows Help Facility Could Enable Code Execution (Q323255)

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-060 Flaw in Windows XP Help and Support Center Could Enable File Deletion (Q328940)

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-069 Flaw in Microsoft VM Could Enable System Compromise (810030)

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-072 Unchecked Buffer in Windows Shell Could Enable System Compromise (329390)

Now some of the above security problems are of critical severity (M$'s words, not mine), others are not so important. But it took me 2 minutes to find descriptions of these flaws on the M$ website. This is for XP, the newest 'most secure' Windows yet...

These are not all of the problems with XP - as I said, I won't even get started on other M$ systems - but 'quality' products do not come with as many security holes as XP does... and these are only some of the flaws found thus far.

Windows NT4.0 is up to Service Pack 7!!!! Seven patches so far to fix flaws in NT!!!

Now, even with this small amount of info I have provided, how anyone can say M$ produce 'quality' products is beyond me!

- S

[Vicious_2003]

Well I said id report if I had problems with my X Box so here it is. I was playing Shenmue 2 yesterday. I was playing for about a good hour, to an hour and a half and it froze . Pissed me off because I was hitting it big on the one hit stands and had quite a bit of money built up. Is this a universal problem with the X Box (I know its not the games because this is the second time it has happened sense I bought it and the first time was with a brand new game (Jet Set Radio Future). Any ways is it a universal problem with all X Box systems or should I return mine for a new one before its too late ?. Any help on this would be appreciated.

Also to continue the original subject........ Id just like to point out to Spank-A-Thon that as fair as the good people at this forum are, it IS STILL a PS2 forum. Your not going to see many people agree with me necessarily about Sonys downfalls such as the controllers being rather cheaply made in comparison to X Box's because I think most of us here are pretty big Sony fans. Im still a Sony fan myself im just trying something new for a while. (If I had the money id buy both of them but ive got other costs to tend to on a small budget) Also yes Sonys online strategy is very different from Microsoft's but that doesn't change the fact that Live is more enjoyable (Opinion) due to Sony's online servers (Controlled by game developers) being absolutely pathetic in most cases. My argument is just that Sony made a bad choice in forcing game developers to deal with online play. Because clearly they are not up to the task (Ahem....Zipper for the most part. Madden online seems allright to me, i applaud EA Sports for that). Also as for the controller abuse issue. Ill admit thier were times when I should have controlled my temper but ive seen shows on how companies decide on controller design and abuse such as throwing is something they are supposed to test and compensate for. Sony knows people are going to throw controllers a bit, hell the kid playing SOCOM in the commercial throws his controller. And I think it puts X Box in a better light because they made their controllers sturdier, not a big thing, just a positive I was pointing out. Thats all. And to deny that is to be a fool, If you think sonys are made just a s sturdy, or that they are better made than have clearly never held an X Box controller

[Harry]

Originally posted by Weapon_XZ84

Well I said id report if I had problems with my X Box so here it is. I was playing Shenmue 2 yesterday. I was playing for about a good hour, to an hour and a half and it froze . Pissed me off because I was hitting it big on the one hit stands and had quite a bit of money built up. Is this a universal problem with the X Box (I know its not the games because this is the second time it has happened sense I bought it and the first time was with a brand new game (Jet Set Radio Future). Any ways is it a universal problem with all X Box systems or should I return mine for a new one before its too late ?. Any help on this would be appreciated.

Also to continue the original subject........ Id just like to point out to Spank-A-Thon that as fair as the good people at this forum are, it IS STILL a PS2 forum. Your not going to see many people agree with me necessarily about Sonys downfalls such as the controllers being rather cheaply made in comparison to X Box's because I think most of us here are pretty big Sony fans. Im still a Sony fan myself im just trying something new for a while. (If I had the money id buy both of them but ive got other costs to tend to on a small budget) Also yes Sonys online strategy is very different from Microsoft's but that doesn't change the fact that Live is more enjoyable (Opinion) due to Sony's online servers (Controlled by game developers) being absolutely pathetic in most cases. My argument is just that Sony made a bad choice in forcing game developers to deal with online play. Because clearly they are not up to the task (Ahem....Zipper for the most part. Madden online seems allright to me, i applaud EA Sports for that). Also as for the controller abuse issue. Ill admit thier were times when I should have controlled my temper but ive seen shows on how companies decide on controller design and abuse such as throwing is something they are supposed to test and compensate for. Sony knows people are going to throw controllers a bit, hell the kid playing SOCOM in the commercial throws his controller. And I think it puts X Box in a better light because they made their controllers sturdier, not a big thing, just a positive I was pointing out. Thats all. And to deny that is to be a fool, If you think sonys are made just a s sturdy, or that they are better made than have clearly never held an X Box controller

I unfortunately have no time to write a long answer, and I see many answered finely to your thread...

I'll just say that on my Xbox I got many serious problems with Morrowind (mostly software related) and it froze on any game I played at least once - including Splinter Cell, Halo and Shenmue II. We had similar problems on a PAL Xbox.

I do believe all these issues are caused by the same weaknesses that's easy to notice playing a game on a good "IBM" PC running any version of Windows. So, Weapon, you should just get used to save often

P.s. I couldn't resist saying something about your last statement. I sincerely consider the Xbox's controller awful - stupidly big (but with the same number of buttons of the Dual Shock), stupidly heavy, stupidly designed : I really don't know how they could release a console with that kind of official controller. It's good you like it, but sincerely, the Dual Shock is one of the greatest gifts ever made to the gaming community.

[Vicious_2003]

I respect your opinion of course, we are all entitled to it. I guess controllers are in the eye of the beholder. I prefer a controller than fills out my hands. With the dual shock I hold it with just my fingers because its too small for my liking. And I wasnt really reffering to button placement or anything. I have no problem with the dual shocks or the X Box's button placement. Just how easily broken they are. I know tons of people who own PS2s and nearly all of them have broken thier fair shair of dual shocks. And if the orignal controller is too big for your size of hands then try the S type, its just about the same size as a dual shock . And (Time to run this point into the ground) might I point out its a higher quality than the daul shock (Ok Im done with the ranting on controller quality). As for the freezing thig...well.......it sucks, shame on Mr. Gates for that one. I dont recall ever having any non softwear related freezing trouble with my PS2. And especially for games where you cant save at will (Like the RE games where you have to have a ribbon and get to a save point) the freezing thing will be cause for some serious controller abuse. I guess these controllers will really be put to the test.

[Nelo Angelo]

I do admit my Xbox has given me the disc error at times when I'm playing Ghost Recon. It's real annoying I should say.

It sucks you had to sell your PS2 to buy an Xbox but oh well.

Harry: Get controller S. :o
Or is that the controller you were talking about?

[dan da man]

on the subject, ive been playing on splinter cell, and it has froze twice now what realy got me angry because i got far without saving, so i decided to take it back.
weapon take the game back like me, it will only get worse trust me

and harry i think the xbox controller isnt stupid at all its realy good IMO, yes but the dual shock is the best.

[goodman]

Metroid Prime actually froze once on me, i was surprised, but dont think ive ever had a ps2 game freeze on me, and would be surprised if Zelda does on the Cube when it comes out....

[ToxicUK]

Just to make my point on this topic

1 - The SONY Controllers are the best controllers in the world. Not too bulky, heavy or silly looking they offer a good quality all around controller for everyday use and they dont break easily.

2 - I think Live is a service like all other bad m$ products - you pay for it - it dopesnt work, you pay for it gaain - it dosent work.

3 - What was the point in that?

4 - You can buy a multitap for both ports.

5 - Um, i hate to say this to you - but have u ever USED A QUALITY M$ PRODUCT?

6 - ****************************************** - Profanity cut out. It is NOT MADE TO BREAK. They only break if u throw em, knock em off shelves or treat em badly and the lense can be cleaned easily with a lens cleaner or manually and u just have to clean it for dust every now and then.


OVERALL: You amde a bad choice on my part. The XBOX is the console with the bad looks, the bad controllers and the bad games.

[dan da man]

Originally posted by ToxicUK




2 - I think Live is a service like all other bad m$ products - you pay for it - it dopesnt work, you pay for it gaain - it dosent work.


OVERALL: You amde a bad choice on my part. The XBOX is the console with the bad looks, the bad controllers and the bad games.

to number 2 xbox live is the best u can get for online sconsoles.

and the OVERALL: bit just souds you are a ps2 fanboy, XBox is not bad looking at all, the controller is nice and where the hell did u get that idea from the games are bad
ever played any of them?
its sounds like to me u never owned a xbox so u woulnd know, they were realy silly comments u made! they just sound like u HATE xbox!

[KraftSLU]

Originally posted by ToxicUK

Just to make my point on this topic

1 - The SONY Controllers are the best controllers in the world. Not too bulky, heavy or silly looking they offer a good quality all around controller for everyday use and they dont break easily.

Well thats a great opinion and all, but I love the feel of my s-type controller over my dual shock, my DC controller, and my roommates gamecube controller. Love games on all three systems, love the stype the most. But then again, you won't see me running around claiming that it is the best controller in the world for everyone.

Originally posted by ToxicUK
2 - I think Live is a service like all other bad m$ products - you pay for it - it dopesnt work, you pay for it gaain - it dosent work.

Hmm... actually my experience went "pay for it once - it works wonderfully and I've never had a problem with it" And oddly enough that is the response I get from most people who have xbox live, that it is a totally wonderful system.... oddly enough, your message sounds like it comes from someone that hates MS for no reason and would just want to bash their live service because that is what they think is cool to do.

Originally posted by ToxicUK
4 - You can buy a multitap for both ports.

It kills me that when people attack the xbox because you have to buy the dvd playback kit, but when the xbox supporters come back and say "you only have 2 ports" the ps2 fanboys say "you can buy multitaps"... so it is ok to spend money on ps2 to overcome it's shortfallings, but it isn't ok for xbox owners to do the same? Before you go and be all hypocritical next time, why not think to yourself "all systems have shortcomings that can be overcome by buying something usually. Xbox, it is the DVD remote. PS2, it is the multitap, memory cards, and online adapter. GC, it is the online adapter and memory cards.

Originally posted by ToxicUK
5 - Um, i hate to say this to you - but have u ever USED A QUALITY M$ PRODUCT?

Well, let me run down the list. I am running my computer on windows 2000 pro, which has been absolutely amazing. Let me check my clock, yup. It has been on without locking up for 5 months now, since I moved it to my apartment. I run a website off of an MS IIS server which has been totally dependable and hasn't had any problems. All my school papers have be written flawlessly on Word, I have set up databases for people with Access. I use Visual C++ to write all my programs for class and for commercial use. VB is also a wonderful program, in fact, the entire visual studio is great! My palm is run by MS Windows CE which hasn't let me down. And last but not least, I have yet to have a single problem with my xbox, the games MS made for them, or my xbox live service.

[mark0™]

Dont take all the Anti-MS feelings here to mean MS makes shitty products that will never work, they're just not as good as they could be. I run XP, sure i've had a few glitches but it runs very well for me.

Oh and thanks for the links Spank.

[Spank-A-Thon]

Originally posted by mark0

Dont take all the Anti-MS feelings here to mean MS makes shitty products that will never work, they're just not as good as they could be. I run XP, sure i've had a few glitches but it runs very well for me.

Oh and thanks for the links Spank.

No probs.

Don't get me 100% wrong though - M$ do make some excellent products - most notably the Office products and the Visual Studio tools - just to balance things out a little.

- S

[Vicious_2003]

LOL, I knew it was a mistake saying that you could always expect quality with Microsoft. I withdraw the statement. I dont own a whole lotta MS stuff but what I own has worked well...most of the time . And this thread was meant to be a discussion on the pros and cons of the X Box and PS2. So far Ive found it rather enlightening, thanks for all the input guys and gals. But bottom line I was happy with my PS2 and now im happy with my X Box, in the end I suppose thats what it comes down to, as long as you can say you had fun with the machine and it wasnt a waste of money, it was a good experience. I just rented Jedi Outcast and Phantom Crash for my X Box, JO is an outstanding game so far, haven't broken into PC yet. And also to the person that said that PS2's arent made to break and if they do that means you mistreated it. I assure you I did NOT mistreat my PS2, I cherished the damn thing. Never played it for too long at a time, never through it around or anything. When I traveled with it I used a protective carrying case. Maybe I just had a case of bad luck and got a bum system who knows. But the fact that I know 2 other people who had the same problem with theirs kinda argues against the bad luck scenario dont you think. Also I dont want ppl thinking I got rid of my PS2 just to get an X Box. The fact that my memory card unformatted itself over night somehow (Lost all my game saves , didn't feel like going through and unlocking things again in my games, rendering them worthless now) and the fact that the controllers couldn't handle my temper were all contributing factors to my selling it off.

[ssjtrunks13]

That's cool. but if you had kept your PS2 you could be enjoying DBz: Budokai. but you might not be into that. I just felt like saying something.

[Vicious_2003]

Dont worry I rented it when it came out and beat it a few times. It was a pretty good game. Im a big DBZ fan myself, as youve probably allready noticed

[ssjtrunks13]

I already have two breakthrough capsules after playing it for only about 2 weeks. I did see all the signs of a huge DBZ fan, but I must have been blinded by the fact you sold your PS2 to get a X Box.