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[Hylas]

Originally posted by dan da man

Only 3 more hours until war, shit man this is quick, lets just hope the evil is took out, not the innocent.

Evil cannot be taken out by evil itself dan

[dan da man]

Originally posted by Hylas

Evil cannot be taken out by evil itself dan

Good point!! Well im reffering to Saddam, he the whole point of this war, once that bastard dictator is out (and his bilogical and chemical), lets hope Iraq is a better country.

[BlackThornn]

Originally posted by Weapon_XZ84

The way i see it war IS necessary. For so many reasons that ive allready listed. And would you people get off the whole Bush stole the presidency thing !. He DID NOT steal anything he won fairly and squarely. Is i this fault that it was soo close and that people in Florida cant figure out punch cards ?. No its not. Sounds to me like a lot of you just enjoy being upset with your government.

I will never get off the whole "bush presidency thing". The bastard stole the office. There's EVIDENCE supporting that theory. There's no way in hell he got there "fairly and squarely". (and no, it's not his fault, it's his doing. And Jeb's. Or did you just choose to forget the total tens of thousands of missing ballots that weren't even able to be recounted that were based in heavily democratic areas of Florida?)

I think we should just agree to disagree on this point, since you're obviously not looking at the facts and I'm not going to accept some load of amateur propaganda.

And no, I do NOT enjoy decrying my government. I was ENJOYING living in this country under Bill Clinton, the only thing people COULD complain about for his presidency was that bullshit with his sexual life, and that was only a bunch of conservative republican bastards and religious fanatics centering on that, fanned by the ratings of every gossipy soccer mom who wanted all the lurid details watching Ken Starr on CNN constantly.

(Not that my support or yours is going to make a difference)

Exactly, since Bush is ignoring the will of the country, the UN and the world, nobody's support or lack of it will make a bit of difference.

[mark0™]

Originally posted by dan da man

2DTV is close enuf

Oh Yeah lol, I Do a great impressonation of Bush's Laugh in that show.

hechheheheheh

Ah what the hell, I guarentee that this war will have no postivie outcomes for the US the UK or the UN.

[dan da man]

Originally posted by mark0



Ah what the hell, I guarentee that this war will have no postivie outcomes for the US the UK or the UN.

Well if the assissnate/capture Saddam, thats one less terriost in the world.

[Vicious_2003]

No Killing Saddam probably wont have any effect on the terrorist threat. But with him gone and a governement of our choosing in place it will be much easier for us to weed them out and disrupt them from within. As far as the posotive effects of this war there may be plenty. liberating Iraqs people is one. Lowering oil prices will be 2. Gaining an anvantage over terrorist groups is 3. to me thats enough of a reason to go to war against Iraq. Saddams army is significantly smaller than it was in our last go around and if all goes according to plan it will be a realatively short and easy war. And as far as our opinions not mattering to the president, they do. thats why hes tried to convince us it was a good idea fro soo long. But I think that the american government has an inside track as far as whats better for the country than we the citizens do. Also Ive seen many polls that say that the majority of americans something like 56% were in support of removing Saddam from power. Of course theres a margin of error to consider and it seems to me that most people are against it now. And look at the past...did the overwelming protests against the vietnam war have the slightest effect on weather or nnot it happened ? Not at all

[007_JamesBond]

i know i have not posted here, and i am lost in the conversation but as for war, i have debated it for a long time and for now here all i have to say is

it is about time

[hijakedGTR]

and so the bombing begins.... *sigh*

2.00PM australian eastern standard time

[ssjtrunks13]

I just got word about that, I figured something was bound to happen. Let's hope it doesn't last that long.

[Preventer Wind]

Originally posted by Harry
And yes, in U.S.A. you have freedom, lot of it, but U.S. is also one of the few big Western countries in the world WITHOUT a real social security system, and one of the countries where the differences between rich people and poor people is more striking. Don't you think 200 billions of your dollars might have been spent to FINALLY plan and create a better social security system? Is it freedom when only people who can afford health insurance and who are lucky enough to be eligible for either Medicaid or Medicare can assure them and their femilies the medical treatment they might need?

I admit that throwing 200 billion (at the least) into a war at this time does not sound great. And if that money were to go to a social security system then I might agree with you on that point. So much money is wasted every year paying off just the interest on the national debt and programs like welfare it makes me sick. I am one to think that 200 billion dollars is a fair price to pay for other people’s freedom. I could go on for a while about this but I want to address other things. Maybe I will come back to it later....

OK Spank....I will answer your questions... Sorry if you think I was avoiding them...

If Bush & Blair are strictly approaching this from a humanitarian perspective, then why haven't they gone after Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe? If it's about weapons of mass destruction, why haven't they gone after Kim Jong Il of North Korea?

Yes Robert Mugabe is a terrible person but Iraq is more of a concern to a lot of people then Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe is no huge threat as Iraq is.

North Korea has a much more superior army then Iraq does. It would take some time to plan out a war there and it could lead to WAIL. Maybe Bush is better person then you think. Maybe he feels he wants to be the president that made the world a safe place for Americans to live. Maybe he does not want to seem like this warmonger so he does not go to war with North Korea. We already dealt with Afghanistan it is not that far of a trip to Iraq. Plus I think Sadam is flat out insane. I think Kim Jong Il of North Korea is at least mentally there.

If it's because of Iraq not complying with UN Directives, then why is the US (and the West in general) continuing to assist Israel? Israel were ordered 30 years ago by the UN to withdraw from Paletinian terrority - yet still haven't...

You are right. For some reason the UN has shown a lot of favor toward Israel. Maybe they felt for sorry for them after the Holocaust was revealed and that has stuck ever since. But there is no reason why Israel should have to withdraw. They conquered that territory after they were attacked first after all. Then the audacity of those same countries to try and attack again. But did those countries have a chance to win? Not when Israel had American made weapons...... Point is that the Jews deserved something good after going through the Holocaust. Why not give them their homeland back? Problem was that land had to be taken away from people. That wasn't right but there was enough land to go around but they wanted it back and trying fighting for it, again, and again. Sorry... this isn't history class....

The war is in part about Oil. HAVE YOU SEEN GAS PRICES!? If other countries do not want to get involved then I say they do not have to. What punishment is going to be given out? More importantly who is going to give out this punishment? That doesn't sound right but it is the truth.

Spank what other options are out there that have not been tried?

I don't mean to offend any soldiers. They have my respect. But the soldiers have stated that they are offended by some of these anti-war people. The flag is a symbol of this country and the military. To see people dismantle it is heart breaking to some soldiers. I have seen some high ranking military officers cry over this. Maybe that was just an act but it is how some feel.

And do not compare Vietnam to this war. Sure a lot of people did not agree with Vietnam as a lot of people do not agree with this one. But Vietnam was totally wrong and a different ball game. Vietnam was all about stopping the spread of communism. And that is about it. The main problem I had (And the reason I disagree with the war) was that a lot of the Vietnamese wanted communism. (Not to mention that the Vietminh had kicked France's ass recently) Do you think that most people in Iraq like their current form of government? Do you think they like not being able to choose who they want as their leader?

[BlackThornn]

I'm only gonna touch on a couple of your points, 'cause to be honest I'm getting tired of arguing.

Originally posted by Preventer Wind
I think Kim Jong Il of North Korea is at least mentally there.


You are right. For some reason the UN has shown a lot of favor toward Israel. Maybe they felt for sorry for them after the Holocaust was revealed and that has stuck ever since. But there is no reason why Israel should have to withdraw. They conquered that territory after they were attacked first after all. Then the audacity of those same countries to try and attack again. But did those countries have a chance to win? Not when Israel had American made weapons...... Point is that the Jews deserved something good after going through the Holocaust. Why not give them their homeland back? Problem was that land had to be taken away from people. That wasn't right but there was enough land to go around but they wanted it back and trying fighting for it, again, and again. Sorry... this isn't history class....

The war is in part about Oil. HAVE YOU SEEN GAS PRICES!?

Kim Jong Il is a little friggin pygmy that runs his country as one giant personality cult. He cannot even FATHOM the fact that american presidents are supposed to follow the will of the PEOPLE instead of themselves, and he's quite literally playing with the nuclear fire by threatening American soil with a Nuclear Strike? That's sane?

Okay, I've always been anti-Israel. Sure, the jews suffered during the holocoust but they had LEFT THAT LAND HUNDREDS OF YEARS BEFORE. They'd conquered it in the first place, then they were outsted.

The native americans have had some real bad shit (a lot worse than the holocoust or Stalin's ethnic purges even) handed to them by americans.. how would you feel if the Albanian government came to your house with Sitting Bear and his family saying that they were going to live in your house from now on? That's how the Palestinians have felt for years about the Israeli situation. EXTREMIST suicide bombers are a very, very small minority in the Palestinian population, despite the constant atrocities being committed by the Israeli military every day and week. Even just armed rebels (the kind that shoot at OTHER SOLDIERS) are a small portion of the population. Yet everyone is getting killed by Israeli tanks and infantry fanning out through civillian areas, all in the name of stopping terror and defending the "homeland" from which they did not originate and had been away from for hundreds of years prior to the UN/US returning them to it after the second world war.

And about GAS PRICES!?!?!? I pay 2.90 a GALLON for gas now. It's f****n' bankrupting me, but I'm still against KILLING to alleviate those prices.

It's not from the slowly rising price of crude oil barrels anyway, AMERICAN companies are preemptively jacking up the price and gouging the consumer, there's even a FEDERAL INVESTIGATION taking place to look into it. Don't blame the middle east for western corruption.

[Vicious_2003]

Just like to point out that I was only comparing This War (WichNeeds a Name) Ill be reffering to it is the Crude War (Get it Crude..like oil hah ) . Anyway I was only comparing it to Vietnam in that people protested It and made no difference and the same is happening here, thats all (Its not just a Bush thing as some seem to think). I know that Vietnam was a mass of cover ups, lies , etc. I just hope its quick and that there arent any Civilian casualties. Im sure if I were on the other side of this thing staring down the barrel of a gun like the Iraqi's I have a different opinion on all this. I can only imagine what its like to be at my home and be able to hear and feel Tomohawk Missles bombing just miles away. Theyve reported that several groups of Iraqi soldiers have allready Surrendered, that is a good sign. And they say that The Mass invasion invisioned by Britain and the U.S is yet to come. I think its rediculous and pathetic that theyve rigged there oil feilds with explosives and have allready set fire to some. Anyway my support is with the TROOPS and the peaceful iraqi Citizens . I hope all goes well for both groups. I truly feel that after all this is said and one that the world will be a slightly more peaceful place in time (Maybe a LONG time). I also feel that one war a lifetime is a good ratio so lets not re elect Bush eh ? . And to Black Thornn, where do you live that gas is 2.90 $ a Gallon, holy S*it we pay around 1.75 $ here in Ohio, I feel for you at 2.90 !

[Preventer Wind]

Originally posted by BlackThornn
The native americans have had some real bad shit (a lot worse than the holocoust or Stalin's ethnic purges even) handed to them by americans.. how would you feel if the Albanian government came to your house with Sitting Bear and his family saying that they were going to live in your house from now on? That's how the Palestinians have felt for years about the Israeli situation. EXTREMIST suicide bombers are a very, very small minority in the Palestinian population, despite the constant atrocities being committed by the Israeli military every day and week. Even just armed rebels (the kind that shoot at OTHER SOLDIERS) are a small portion of the population. Yet everyone is getting killed by Israeli tanks and infantry fanning out through civillian areas, all in the name of stopping terror and defending the "homeland" from which they did not originate and had been away from for hundreds of years prior to the UN/US returning them to it after the second world war.

I never said I agreed that they were given their homeland back. In fact I said I thought it was wrong. (And I am part Native American but I understand what you mean) I was only trying to say that they had no where to go. No country was going to take that many people and they were certainly not going to stay in Germany. I agree that over the span of time the Native Americans have had far greater losses. But the Jews suffered so much in the span of a decade they had to be given something. It was really a lose lose situation.

Kim Jong Il is a little friggin pygmy that runs his country as one giant personality cult. He cannot even FATHOM the fact that american presidents are supposed to follow the will of the PEOPLE instead of themselves, and he's quite literally playing with the nuclear fire by threatening American soil with a Nuclear Strike? That's sane?

No, playing with nuclear weapons is not sane. But a lot of Koreans think that what he does is perfectly fine. I think that compared to Saddam he is less of a threat. In fact a lot of South Koreans think that the US is a bigger threat to do hard to them then North Korea. Saddam has absolute authority and a past that is not for the faint hearted.

It's not from the slowly rising price of crude oil barrels anyway, AMERICAN companies are preemptively jacking up the price and gouging the consumer, there's even a FEDERAL INVESTIGATION taking place to look into it. Don't blame the middle east for western corruption.

Yeah, that is a joke. They talk about Microsoft being a monopoly when there has to be someone behind ALL the gas companies. We will cal him.... THE GAS MAN. Or they are all greedy bastards. But can you blame them? It's one of the most important things people need. Like anyone wants to ride a bike to work or walk to work. The bus is for desperate measures. If you are paying 2.90 for gas then I feel sorry for you. There is corruption every where and there is really no way around it for some things.

One interesting side note.... It has been reported that Iraq fired some Scud missiles.... missiles they swore they didn't have. If this is true (Which could or could not be given the past of these things) If it is true though then I think it can be safe to say he has worse weapons....

[BlackThornn]

A brief look at some of the things Kim Jong Il (herafter known in my posts as Lil' Kim) has done in his reign over North Korea..


He cares more for movies than the state. He owns 15,000+ and screens and critiques every movie made within N. Korea. He spens most of his time watching pornography, american westerns, Elizabeth taylor movies and the Friday the 13th series. He has written a book on cinema and opened a film school.

He receives blood transfusions from virgins regularily to slow te aging process.

He spends over 25% of N.Korea's GNP on the military. This is a nation that is literally starving.

He has only allowed North Koreans to mingle with South Koreans TWICE-50 people in 1985 and 100 people in 2000.

He refuses any foreign aid.

He is the single largest consumer of hennesy Cognac in the world.

Like his father, he refuses to end the Korean War, Rather he wishes it to stay in the "ceasefire" mode its been in for near-50 years.

When madeline Allbright was in te country on a rare diplomatic allowance, he tried to seduce her. ..

And if you're still not convinced of his insanity, I leave you with this quote from him...

Leonard diCaprio's performance in Titanic was so moving I coul not bear to wath it a second time.

[Preventer Wind]

Ok... Thornn.... I don't see how he can be considered insane with those excuses. A LOT of people are like that minus the blood transfusions (If it works then he is a genius!).

So what if he drinks. Look all the alcoholics around the world. Bush was once one was he not?

He watches a lot of movies. Is that so insane? Further more he watches a lot of porno. That makes him all the saner! (As long as it aint to freaky...but I rather not know what kind of porn he watches)

Look at where most of our taxes go? Military.

Yeah maybe he won’t let them mingle. That is wrong. Not insane.

At least by refusing foreign aid he doesn't have any large debts to another country. Tack on interest rates and Korea would be in worse shape. See every country from WWI and II except Finland (I think)

No clue about the ceasefire. Maybe he has something against South Koreans (which is bad because my dad and grandma are from there).

Madeline Allbright aint that bad.... *finds nearest trash can and hurls* Ok so every man has his own tastes.....I can't think of any thing else. We should go to war with them over that!

So he liked Titanic. I am sure thousands of women have said the same thing. Only they wasted their money and saw it again.

Yeah so maybe he doesn't care for his country that much. He would not be the first person. Doesn't make him insane. Makes him average by some people’s standards....