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[BlackThornn]

The bible was written by men. Not god. These guys did not want to be gay and they were not raised gay. They spent years hiding it and trying to "overcome" it like it was a test from God, which is what they'd come to believe. Religions brainwashing was making them reject the way God made 'em. How could they be making excuses about something they don't want? Why would they CHOOSE something they don't want?

Artist: Shh. Don't say that, the universe will end.

[BlackThornn]

Originally posted by Lava42000


If your friends didn't want to be gay, they didn't have to be. We don't need scientists to tell us that homosexuality is not a disease. Addiction, is a disease. Depression is a disease. Homosexuality is a choice. And saying that someone is ignorant for not "understanding a homosexuals mindset" is ignorance in itself because it is refusing to be open minded to everyones opinions. The bottom line is that homosexuals choose to be who they are; I don't care how many childhood friends you have who turned out to be gay even though they "didn't freaking want to be", they did want to be or else they wouldn't have become homosexual!

Don't you be saying what other people are thinking, you little zealot. You don't know. And you didn't see the ****ing anguish these guys went through before they finally accepted HOW THEY WERE BORN.

[Lava42000]

Blackthorn, the bottom line is, if they said they didn't want to be gay, but they turned out gay anyway, they lied to you when they told u they didnt want to be! I could tell someone "I didn't want to kill them I swear!" but then i still killed them, that is my choice.

[BlackThornn]

Originally posted by Kabuki Magnifico


the reluctant homosexuals..that's some funny stuff.

What, you think every gay guy ends up like he was born and raised in polk street? Societal reprecussions alone are usually enough to make anyone not want to be gay, let alone that we were all raised with the "goal of life" being a wife & kids in mind, and now that's unattainable for 'em. It's not really that funny, Kabuki.

[BlackThornn]

Originally posted by Lava42000
Blackthorn, the bottom line is, if they said they didn't want to be gay, but they turned out gay anyway, they lied to you when they told u they didnt want to be! I could tell someone "I didn't want to kill them I swear!" but then i still killed them, that is my choice.

Impossible to lie when you are practically brothers with a person, and you see the pain and conflict every day.

Bottom line is: You're wrong, and you've been brainwashed.

And I know this is inappropriate for the forum, but you are lucky that this isn't a debate ROOM instead of a forum, otherwise you'd be in a world of hurt for even implying that you would harm my friends.

[Ice Cold]

I go on to state my opinions, opinions based on having friends who DIDN'T WANT to be gay, but in retrospect had tendancies toward that from when they were children. In a tight knit group of five friends two turned out gay, and they didn't freaking want to be; and we were all raised practically the same.

You have had a direct experiance with homosexuallity, I have not. I am basing my opinions on principles, not experiance. I have told you how I felt, and will leave it at that. I can do nothing more.

In the world there is homosexuallity. There is nothing I can do about it but tell you what the Bible says. THis thread is a great debate and need more ideas like this.

[Lava42000]

Blackthorn, this may be kinda blunt, but if your friends each have a d*ck then they can have a wife and kids. It is their choice whether or not to like men or women! Do not try to bombard me with all that "your narrow-minded" crap, people have their own free will, its always been that way and hopfully it always will be. I am not dissing gays, i am just saying they have a choice, i think the choice they make is wrong but do not think they are a bad person, they just made a bad choice. If a gay guy comes up to me and has a regular conversation with me then i'm cool with it, but if he starts hittin on me then i'm gonna hit him hard enough that the dream of a wife and children wont be reachable, gay or not!!

P.S.: I think kabuki is hilarious.

[Lava42000]

did i ever say anything about hurting your friends? it was a theoretical situation given to show that humans do have the characteristic of choice. i would not make any of this personal to anone, this is all in a general state of mind

[Reid]

This topic seems to be such a big issue all the time.

I think it would be great if people could just other people do what they want to do and leave it alone.

I went to a Christian school last year (even though I'm not much of a Christian ) and one day a speaker in chapel (pretty much an assembly that discusses different topics) discussed how the media portrays lies, etc.

The guy actually seemed halfway intelligent until he brought up "some basic lies presented by the media", one of which being that "we should tolerate homosexuality".

Of course, over the course of the day talking to different people about it you really get to see all different types come out.

I'm of the mindset that whatever your sexual preference you're still a human being to be treated as a human being and respected as a human being.

You'd really be surprised (or maybe not) at the large amount of ignorant folk that believe that because someone is gay they should be subhuman, have no rights, even be killed.

I grew up in a fairly liberal household and have gay family members (not immediate however), so maybe it's just my background that makes me swing toward tolerance and fair judgement of all people.

Anyway, that's just my two cents.

[kupoartist]

Originally posted by Kabuki Magnifico
btw: i was luaghing at the fact that someone mention people being gay and not wanting to yet still being gay..what the hell is that about.

when you're constantly told somthing is evil, and will send you to hell, you'd try your best to push down the feelings that you naturally get, and pretend they don't exsist. Ultimately, that person will never suceed, and will either have to simply accept, or effectivly self-destruct by whatever means necessary. But as long as we don't see them turn to drugs, self-mutilation or suicide, its ok to call them evil right?

[Lava42000]

I do not believe that gays should be killed or anything of that nature, thats horrible. Like i said in my very first post about this, I hate the sin, if someone tries to force that sin upon me then i will not like that. But a person is a person no matter what, they can be the biggest gay in the world and worshp satan, never the less, they are still a person with a persons rights. We all have red blood and are composed of moslty the same organs, yes were all human, but this debate has turned into whether or not people have the choice to be gay. They do have the choice just as they would have to choice to worship satan.

[Infernal Mass]

Originally posted by the_artist


when you're constantly told somthing is evil, and will send you to hell, you'd try your best to push down the feelings that you naturally get, and pretend they don't exsist. Ultimately, that person will never suceed, and will either have to simply accept, or effectivly self-destruct by whatever means necessary. But as long as we don't see them turn to drugs, self-mutilation or suicide, its ok to call them evil right?

if somebody is going through all that they are mentally unsound.

[kupoartist]

Originally posted by Kabuki Magnifico
if somebody is going through all that they are mentally unsound.

Perhaps they are. But its only the people I mentioned who got them there.

[Reid]

I think that worshipping Satan and being gay are far too different choices to be comparing in that way.

[Lava42000]

Have any of you ever known any alcoholics or drug addicts? well maybe some of you know all the pain they go through and how they are actually chemically dependant on these things. I have seen my uncle go in and out of rehab and after two years finally get off of alcohol. He was able to do it because he didnt want to be an alcoholic anymore so he sought help. People outcasted him, people shunned him, people judged him on being an alcoholic so he got help and he beat it. Now you are trying to tell me that a homosexual cannot change what they are? they are not chemically dependant on anything. If a homosexual really didn't want to be homosexual then they would do something about it. If they truly did not want to be like that then they could get help. even if they were under suffereing from what other had done, if they deep down did not want to be gay they would be able to stop it. Homosexuals can choose!

[BlackThornn]

Originally posted by Lava42000
Blackthorn, this may be kinda blunt, but if your friends each have a d*ck then they can have a wife and kids. It is their choice whether or not to like men or women! Do not try to bombard me with all that "your narrow-minded" crap, people have their own free will, its always been that way and hopfully it always will be. I am not dissing gays, i am just saying they have a choice, i think the choice they make is wrong but do not think they are a bad person, they just made a bad choice. If a gay guy comes up to me and has a regular conversation with me then i'm cool with it, but if he starts hittin on me then i'm gonna hit him hard enough that the dream of a wife and children wont be reachable, gay or not!!

It is not thier choice wether or not to like men or women.

Could you go out and look at a guy, then up and say "Dude.. I wanna have hot kinky buttsex with that guy" just because you wanted to make a choice to do so? No. Hormonal impulses are not a matter of free will, they are a matter of completely subconcious factors of the brain, factors that are utterly out of human control. Maybe one day they'll have an "anti gay" pill, but that's in the distant future. For now, it's not a matter of choice.

As for Wife and Kids not being attainable.. Yah, sure.. they have the choice wether or not to drag some poor unsuspecting woman into a sham marriage, then make her life and whatever children's life (probably concieved through artifical ensemination or something) miserable for the rest of thier days, and basically bring NO additional happiness to the world.. But there's the whole factor of them wanting to not be at least a little happy, or not wanting to take another person down with 'em. One of them (named Daniel) has chosen to remain alone for all his life so far because he doesn't want to acknowledge his nature, but he doesn't want any woman to be harmed by making a farce relationship. THAT is a choice, but it's a choice to deny his NATURE in favor of CULTURE and his own ideals. He knows he's gay 'cause he gets turned on by men and not women, but he refuses to follow through with what his body is telling; he's now been diagnosed with unipolar depression, and looks like he's 40 when he's something like 28 because of all the stress and sadness in his life. That is not a choice that anyone would make.

[Lava42000]

thankyou kabuki

[Ice Cold]

Alright, this thread is getting pretty deep. Let me ask another question.

If you think homosexuallity is unavoidable, would it be wrong if you picked homosexuallity freely?

[Lava42000]

the stories of your friend are sad, i'm sorry, i wouldn't want anyone to go through something like that. But maybe gays arent strong enough to change. One of my friends used to be really turned on by one of out teachers, and what did he do? trained himself to not think about her like that and not like her anymore, and wouldnt ya know it, it worked! probably because hes human, a human, just like all other humans, with the right to free choice

[kupoartist]

Originally posted by Lava42000
One of my friends used to be really turned on by one of out teachers, and what did he do? trained himself to not think about her like that and not like her anymore, and wouldnt ya know it, it worked!

thats ever so slightly different. you can't compare a crush on an individual to a sexual preference for and entire gender.