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[Harry]

Originally posted by MakgSnake
I Think, Women Now Are Just Simply Pissed At The Whole World. They Just Wanna Go Against What Is And Was Said.

If The World Starts Saying.....ALL WOMEN SHOULD WORK And THATS IT!.! Very Soon A Time Will Come....When All These Females Will Say....WHY SHOULD WE WORK....WE ARE NOT ROBOTS, WE SHOULD STAY AT HOME .... And Will Stay At Home.

Just Wanna Go Against Things.........Thats What Todays Female Is Like.

If I Say......."Oh, Changing A Tire Of A Car Isn't A Girl's Job"....Now If A Female Hears Me Say That....She Would Say.."Oh YEAH....We Can Do It...And We Will.." Just Because I Said...Its Not Their Job (Actually)..

I Am Not A Doctor......So....I Should Opererate On A Body Just Cause Some GUY/GIRL Tells Me...."Hey U Cant Operate That Body". And If I Try To Do The Operation....I'll Be Doing It Out Of Anger. ... Pathetic!!!

What you wrote is pathetic. What you say here Makg, is on my opinion offensive and ignorant. Saying women only "Wanna Go Against Things" make me think you are misogynous, or maybe you simply don't know what life of women has been in the past and what is nowadays in many regions of the world. Thankfully, in the civilized countries (Edit: let me add "theoretically", considering what many of you wrote), women can do exactly the same things men do. It's true that "cleaning in the house" is like a work, but not all women like to live their live workig in their house, because they have the intelligence, the skill, the passion to do something more, like any other human being.

Originally, their possibilities were limited because they lacked the strength of men. Period. But I don't know if you noticed it, the world has changed. Nowadays, physical strength is not important in great part of works, and be sure, working women are often more successful and skilled, and they have no problem "Dealing With The World".

Saying what you said, means you underestimate and offend them.

"And Yes....I Am Religious A Little........Because If A Female Doesn't Marry And Doesn't Have Kids Just BECAUSE She Doesn't Wanna Raise Kids Or Wanna Run Away From Slavery (If Thats What She Thinks It Is), She Is Commeting A Sin....Because She Should Remember That She Was Once A KID Too And Was Raised By Her Mother And No Other Stranger."

Unfortunately, in many regions of the world marrying is a slavery BECAUSE of Religion. Religions can become often fanticism, and fanaticism is always bad news, and leads men to assume the role of judges when they don't deserve it, because their knowledge is ignorance. Sin, a dangerous word it is.

"I think women should be able to do whatever they want. BUT a woman should also know how to cook, clean, and other kinds of things that they should traditionally know.
I mean, what happens when she has a husband, then has kids and doesnt know how to do any mother/wife type things? and worse yet, what if the man doesnt even know? then they have a problem. there is a time when a women should belong in the house(raising children), and a time when they can do anything they want." (Hadoken)

That's stupid and pointless. Men can cook, and do work in the house, unless thay're too idiot to understand their wives have their right to have the same freedom men have. The traditional role given to the mother has changed since women have conquered the possibility to do the same things men do. The right thing is to divide the work between dad and mother.

I don't know how things goes where you live, but the things many of you said here are medieval and offensive at least, and I'm surprised to see young guys writing this shit. Yeah shit, and of the worst type. The one that stinks from a thousand miles. You are speaking of human rights here, and think twice before writing. I'd like to see the other girls (Soul Angel and meryl, for example) in the forum responding in this thread. It really made me sad and mad what many of you wrote here.

[Pu the Owl]

Originally posted by MakgSnake
I Think, Women Now Are Just Simply Pissed At The Whole World. They Just Wanna Go Against What Is And Was Said.

Just Wanna Go Against Things.........Thats What Todays Female Is Like.

Your words, and I can tell you being a woman, are very offensive.
You really don't know what you're saying, or at least your vision is being very limited on this subject.
If a tradition or a general situation is wrong or it limits the freedom of a human being (you know, not only males are human beings...) it's our right to change it. Not only men can change a situation if it's unfair, don't you think?
We're not stupid and we've not the kind of mentality you're describing. That's maybe what you would do in that case, not what a woman would like to do after gaining the freedom to do whatever she wants. And it took something like few thousands years to gain this freedom. It's a recent conquer, if you think that only during the XX century women gained the possibility to vote, that was forbidden before even in civilized country, and it's still forbidden somewhere...
Don't you think that is better for you to think about it, and read what women passed through ages instead of saying such things in the complete ignorance? Yeah, because this is complete ignorance, saying what you said without knowing a bit of the history of women, that is a complete different history than the official one, (the only one you probably know).
You're offending women, showing you don't really understand their needs and desires. You're being a male chauvinist, and not only you Makg, but the greatest part of guys that posted here and cannot go outside their heads for a moment and think like a woman.
Your words are really a great misunderstanding of woman's nature.
And I completely subscribe what Harry said. At least the sign not all men are thinking this way, luckily for women...

[BlackThornn]

First.. Makg, that's disgraceful, man.. "all" women are like nothing, women are individuals, as are EVERY HUMAN BEING on the planet! Every female has DIFFERENT views and opinions and are not going against anything as a whole! That would be like me spouting off and saying "all muslims are evil terrorists" That is not remotely true, and neither is this crap!

Now, rereading my arguments in this thread, I find that I've gotten off track and miscommunicated a little of what I mean. A woman should be able to do anything with her life, be able to do anything a man could do in the same situation.. Maybe even write thier name in the snow, but I don't know about that.

Now, PARENTS (!!) that's referring to BOTH SEXES or same sexes, or whatever ends up having the kid, should take time away from work to take care of the child! It is not about equal rights, it is about parental responsibility! The child should take priority over careers on both sides, no, the mother shouldn't quit, no, the father shouldn't quit, but BOTH should tone down thier efforts to advance so that they have ample time to take care of thier own damned children. Babysitters are un-f******-healthy for a child when used on such a regular basis as I have seen. They MESS UP THE KIDS HEADS! This point should be inarguable, but some people here think that just because a woman is a woman, (or a man is a man) then she should be able to concentrate on her career instead of her responsibility. This is untrue, and in my opinion, ridiculous. Neither parent should be focusing on thier work while thier child is at least under eight years old or until it has some ability to function on it's own, for the health of the growing human being.

Edit/note/afterthought: I'm mentioning *both* sexes here because I have not before, having refrained from doing so because this thread isn't about both sexes, it is about women. As much has been mentioned directly. Though by not mentioning DIRECTLY the roles of both parents I have been apparently branded a closed-minded chauvanist fool. This is the last I am going to post on the subject, except to say that I am saddened and angered both by the way posters on both sides of this little argument have treated the situation. Venemous posting like that is something I would have expected to see maybe in general forums when the posters are not a (relatively) close knit group like I believed we are.. It is not something I would have expected to see here, despite the seriousness of the argument. Voicing opinions is one thing, bashing another's is quite different. (And I know that I am being somewhat hipacritical by saying this after I came down on Makg for what he said, but I do not think that is really an opinion he formed on his own, just one that was forced into his head by the ridiculous Muslim culture of where he lives.)

[Pu the Owl]

Originally posted by BlackThornn
"all" women are like nothing, women are individuals, as are EVERY HUMAN BEING on the planet! Every female has DIFFERENT views and opinions and are not going against anything as a whole! That would be like me spouting off and saying "all muslims are evil terrorists" That is not remotely true, and neither is this crap!

That's a good point too.

[TtTackler]

Well, I skipped some of this because too much readind (x-X;, but I read MOST of it ()...

Well, of course, men and women should be able to chose how they want to live their life whatever way they want. Magk, your ideals are coming from entrenched "traditional sex roles" that men do all the "dirty" work and women take of the children, that was incarnated back when the first nomadic tribes came about during the Ice Ages! Nowadays are different, both the male and female most of the time HAVE to work to keep there house and feed their families. Sure, if one (notice how I said one, and not specifically women) of the parents want to stay home and not work to raise their children, that's perfectly fine and their choice of life. The father should really help raise the child too, for one insignificant reason, so that the child doesn't fall into the Oedipus (spellcheck?) Complex, or simply, become a "mama's boy". Well, I WANT to go on, but I think I'm just rambling and getting off topic here, so I'll just try to squeeze in a few more things... "All men are created equal," that includes women TOO, remember that!

As for Thorn's comment about writing in the snow, if a woman wants to, go for it!

[Cannibal Clown]

Women and men are both human beings. And if they have a child, they are both parents. So It doesn't matter who's the one staying home to take care of the children, just as long as they do it. The man can work, or the woman can work. Just as long as the kid is raised well, it shouldn't matter. That's all there is to it. Guys can also play the part of Mr. Mom. But that shouldn't give women the right to say f*ck it and go to work, forgetting the fact that she does have the god given responcibility that her and her husband put on their selves.

[happy_doughnut]

Em...my responce will most likely not be as educated and well written as some of yours, nonetheless, this is what I think:

I think women should be able to, and aswell, need to work. With the economy being as it is now a days, it is extremely difficult to be able to sustain a household with a single income.
In most situations, the woman faces the need to work in order to be able/help to support her family.
However, call me old fashioned if you want, but I think a woman also has a job at home. Especially if there are children involved.
I too think women should be able to do basic things such as cooking and cleaning. This, however, does not mean the the female is the one that is obliged to do all of this all of the time.

Being a female, especially those whom are mothers, have a very hard and important role in society today. This is something that is often overlooked. As a working (outside of home) mother, the female has not one, but two jobs. A mother in itself is a doctor, a banker, a teacher, a cook, a judge and many other things.
I'm not saying that males don't do this too, but it is true that in most cases it is the female who ends up doing such things.

The point I'm trying to get across is that of the choice that women do need and should work if they want to. Yet, at the same time, they cannot afford to put their job above their household because if they do, they will most likely not be having one for long.

I suppose this is the same thing for men. Males too should know how to cook and clean but in my opinion, it is more the job of the female...

*runs before she gets flamed!*

[Mana]

Originally posted by Mena

Males too should know how to cook and clean but in my opinion, it is more the job of the female...

I kinda gree on anything Mena said, apart from this line. In your opinion why the greatest chefs ( yeah, the amazing cliché of the male cook )in the world are males? Because men CAN cook, but they don't even want to try, most of the time

[merylsilverburg]

Okay, first....everyone needs to calm down....this is strictly everyone's opinions, even if some are offensive or close-minded statements. As for me, I voted: Oh! Look at that shiny thing across the room! The reason why is: I feel uncomfortable talking about this subject for many reasons. But, I shall state my opinions anyway...

First, Makg.....yes, your posts are offensive, ignorant, and a bit discriminitive against women....but, I understand what you're talking about. For me, as a woman, I feel that women should have the same equal rights and jobs as men, and men should be able to take care of the roles that women do as well. For single women....I think it's terrific that they're going out, trying to get a job and standing up for themselves and being independant. I love that....hell, I wish I could be like that (but, I'm still too young... ) As for women who are mothers.....I think it's up to them whether or not they want to hire a baby-sitter or stay at home and take care of the kids or leave it to the husband. Personally, I think it'd be better for both parents to take care of the kid(s). It gives the kid(s) an equal share of love from both sexes, so they won't be screwed up. Anyway, it depends on the situation though. If the woman is married, but then gets a divorce and wants to keep the kids, then she needs to be responsible for them and not have them turn out to be trouble-makers and so on. But, in order to support the kids, the woman needs to work, so she has no choice but to hire a nanny or a babysitter. But, if we're talking about a single woman....whose been single all her life.....then....suddenly, wants to have kids...then she needs to find out if she REALLY wants that more than her job. I feel that women should be able to go out and work but if they want kids too, they have to find out if work is much more important than the kids. But hey!! If they know they can devote their time to work...and yet...still have time to take care of the kid...then by all means, go and have kids and work! That'd be great! As for independant, single, career women....they should have the same jobs as men because nowadays, it's unfair for them to be discriminated just because they are female. In the past.....before there was war or anything, the women are supposed to be at home. But, when the war going on (I'm talking about America here)....all the men needed to be recruited and go to fight. All of a sudden....HEY! ALL WOMEN!! C'MON DOWN AND HELP PUT TOGETHER THIS PLANE or C'MON ALL WOMEN!! HELP DRILL THIS HOLE INTO THE SIDE and so on. I mean....that pisses me off. It's kinda like, "Ohhhh.....now you need us to help you out...but still.....we can't go to war with the men, right?" After the war was over and all....the women were expected to go back home and start taking care of the kids and so on. That's unfair. And I'm only talking about America here. I understand that in some countries, the women are supposed to be at home and all.....okay, fine. That's their religion and beliefs....until all the women gather round and try to defy that....then it can't be helped....they're stuck. But, another thing is: it's their religion and beliefs and tradition and even though tradition is bad at times.....sometimes...it's the best, otherwise, there might be trouble. Okay, okay, I'm not making any sense here.....I hope someone can understand me and not call me closed-minded because I seriously understand all of this, but...um....I have to go now, so I'll post more later. Sorry, sorry!

[Mana]

Originally posted by merylsilverburg
That's their religion and beliefs....until all the women gather round and try to defy that....then it can't be helped....they're stuck. But, another thing is: it's their religion and beliefs and tradition and even though tradition is bad at times.....sometimes...it's the best, otherwise, there might be trouble.

But let's think about the fact that in some countries women have no choice, so for them is not possible to decide to gather and change the situation. This is really sad. I've seen and read many things at school about it and I felt really sad for women that still live in that horrible situation, not able to choose because they don't even know there are choices in life...

[happy_doughnut]

Originally posted by Mana


I kinda gree on anything Mena said, apart from this line. In your opinion why the greatest chefs ( yeah, the amazing cliché of the male cook )in the world are males? Because men CAN cook, but they don't even want to try, most of the time

Yes Mana, I can see why you wouldn't agree with me on that. Of course males can cook, and when they in fact do try, they can cook wonders. But you see, I'm not speaking of the world outside of home, rather, the one inside of home. I'm not saying that women HAVE to do it, I just think that a female, as a mother (if they are), hold that responsability maybe somewhat more than a male.

[Pu the Owl]

Well, maybe I'm acting a bit like a sort of supporter of feminists theories but trust me, I'm not!
Some very limited positions, intentional or not, make me mad, whatever is the subject. Like it happens for anyone when they say a certain type of things and you feel so bothered you can't stop thinking about it.
Meryl, you're right: opinions are only opinions...anyone is free to express his ideas, I've only asked to some guys to look for some information before talking. It's nothing personal I think, at least I don't think we're going to kill each other for this reason. ^__^;;


And Mana had a good point too: the greatest chefs are men! And they're too damn good at cooking! I've known many men that were amazing cooks, even at home! They find pleasure in cooking. Odd isn't it? They know they can be good cooks, and they're pleased by this thing

Men of the world, trust me: if you want to make your wife happy, just cook something for her

[merylsilverburg]

Sometimes, the simple posts have more point than the long ones, like mine. Everything that I wanted to say is exactly what Mena said and what everyone is saying here. Ah, all I'm saying is: Women should be able to go out and work and all that, but they should also be responsible for the kids if they want them. Otherwise, like BlackThornn said, they can turn out to be messed-up or worse. Men should do the same things as women and women should do the same things as men. There.

BTW, Mana: Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I should've explained more, but I know what you're saying. Women in other countries have no choice, which is why they have to stick to taking care of the kids, cooking, etc. But, what I'm saying is, sometimes, sticking to tradition is a good thing, because it keeps the peace among the men and women. I'm not saying that women shouldn't stick up for themselves, but if the majority of the men will overpower the women even if they do stick up for themselves....then it'll just be hell and war and all that. But, hey! If the women don't give a damn, then I'd say "To hell with it! Fight, women! Fight!" Okay, I'm not making sense again....

[Pu the Owl]

I'm not being sexist now, don't get me wrong, but I don't see any possibility of women causing a war only because they want some freedom. I mean: wars are always caused by men ehhehe that's why someone else said here telling that women cannot go to war and men must go when there's a war. So saying women could cause war is just...weird
And anyway, I know that most of the time women's movements for liberation and freedom are pacific movements, not intentioned to cause violence. When it turns to violence it's usually because men don't want traditions to be changed. Ok, I repeat: don't get me wrong on this point. Those are only historical facts, not my crazy inventions

[MakgSnake]

Well, If U Think I Am Being Wrong.......Or Being Stupid, U Can Go On With It. I Dont Blame U....I Cant!.!

But A Time Will Come When U'll Understand What I Was Saying.

Dont Try To Change Nature. I Know Women Can Do Whatever They Want...And They Are Doing Whatever They Want. Infact, I Know My Wife Is Going To Work. All My Sisters are Working Women.

I Was Not Talking About Equality....... Dont Bring Equality Here. Cause No Matter Who U Are And Who Anybody Is. EVERY Single Person In This Universe Is Equal. Weather Ure President Of United States Or A Sweeper In Pakistan. Ure Equal. But Equality Is Not Shown There. So Dont Talk About That.

And Yes...Like Meryl Said....Its My Opinion.........And I "Think" I Am Right.

Like I Said Before, Dont Try To Change Nature...... Animals Have Brains Too.......They Can Think As Well, Have U Ever Seen A Female Animal Doing A Male's Job. No.......Although Its Possible, But Will Never Happen. Learn Something From It.

I Dunno Who Said This Over Here, But Some Female Member Said She Doesn't Know How To Cook.......!. Its Ok, And Perfectly Fine If A "Girl" Doesn't Know How To Cook, But I Ask U....Can Someone Be Proud Of That. ... ...

And Like Before.....I Said... A Female Can Work...All She Wants, But If She Is A Mother, She Should Take Care Of The Baby, WHY?? Read My First Few Posts In This Thread.

A Bird Can Walk As Well.......Dont Try To Make It Walk Throughout Its Life. That Bird Will Be More Successful In Air, Cause Its A Bird And Its Suppose To Fly.

And As For Me.....Its A Sin If U Dont Get Married, And After That Dont Have Kids. So A Wife Has To Be A Mother For Me. Or Else She Is Commetting A Big Sin.

[Pu the Owl]

Originally posted by MakgSnake

Like I Said Before, Dont Try To Change Nature...... Animals Have Brains Too.......They Can Think As Well, Have U Ever Seen A Female Animal Doing A Male's Job. No.......Although Its Possible, But Will Never Happen. Learn Something From It.

Ah, we're not going anywhere with this sentences! The human being is an animal, but not all animals are made equal, and there are some animals species in which males do a work that you would consider only for female...Not joking! So this is pointless, because males and females of each species act in a different way, and there are also some of them that do the same things with no exceptions, taking care of their sons included...

And As For Me.....Its A Sin If U Dont Get Married, And After That Dont Have Kids. So A Wife Has To Be A Mother For Me. Or Else She Is Commetting A Big Sin.

Not being married it not a sin! Those beliefs are source of big misunderstandings. Females and males are indipendant, they don't have to be married to live a good life. If a single man is not committing sin because he decides to not be married, this is true also for a woman. It's a very personal choice. For me the "sin" is thinkining that anyone needs the same things in life, and this is includes also the necessity to be married. And the fault of many couples is that they're not good or prepared for being married, but following traditions they got married. And they spend their lives in a very miserable way, because that was not a good choice for them as individuals. And they also bring sufferings to their children, because as parents they're not going along and they're not the kind of person who can make a family happy or balanced. Telling that getting married is good for anyone is completely wrong.

[MakgSnake]

Originally posted by Fortune


Not being married it not a sin! Those beliefs are source of big misunderstandings. Females and males are indipendant, they don't have to be married to live a good life. If a single man is not committing sin because he decides to not be married, this is true also for a woman.

Fortune, I Wasn't Talking About A Female Not Getting Married Is A Sin. Even If A Male Doesn't Marry, He Is Commiting A Sin. We Are Independent, But That Doesnt Mean We Stay Like that Our Whole Life. Fortune, Ure Opinions Ures And Mines Mine. I Take Things In Reliegious Manner, Although I Am Not Reliegious, But Still......I Try To Do Atleast Somethings.

And About The Animals.............My Point Wasn't Of Saying That A Female Doing A Males Job A ViseVersa, I Was Saying, Do They Change Their Way Of Living.

In A Family Of Lion, The Female Lion Does All The Work, And The Male Lion Just Wakes Up For 2 Hours And Eats What The Female Has To Give. Are They Changing Their Way Of Living.?. I Was Stating That. Do What Ure Best At.

[Carlito]

Fortune was not talking about females and males, but about couples. She wrote couples and parents.

I'm tired of reading this thread, so I think I'll give up.

[Indrid Cold]

Work..
I dont know Comes up with me is working...

[Indrid Cold]

Or stay home and sleep all day!