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[Pu the Owl]

Originally posted by BlackThornn


The "Console Wars" might be stupid and pointless, but the fact is that they exist, nobody can help that. Especially by just outright censoring them. It's like bars on windows or regular locks on doors, it keeps honest people honest, but the ones who cause the trouble will find another way to do so.

First of all I want a thing to be clear: I won't accept "console wars" threads to be posted everywhere, like for example in General Chat. I think we had enough of "Which one is better" threads and so on. So, this kind of threads will be closed from now on.
And another thing: Console wars exist, I'm not telling they don't have to exist, but considering they cause continuous offences and arguements, I won't accept them anymore here. You can cry, pray and swear they won't happen again, but I'm not letting you do whatever you want here, ok?
I'm not questioning your freedom of speech, but it seems some members here don't quite uderstand the difference between serious and peaceful discussion and flaming others.
You're free to disagree with my decision (and it's also the decision of the other administrators). You just have to consider that closing one of the most visited forums of the site is not a popular choice and not even the right choice to attract more visitors, but I don't want this situation to go on.

And from what I've read in some of your posts, you're not even interested in behaving in a different way from now on to make me reconsider my decision.

Don't start several threads on this matter and don't ask for new forums.

I think that ppl like hotshot should just leave because they seem to be highly negative and only cause the PS2 owners to get riled up and start fighting and acting dumb. I looked at some things that hotshot has posted elsewhere and they are negative. I guess he just goes around bashing the PS2 and I think that he is not needed here at all. Here is an example of his negative comments.https://www.***********/game/1090988/r...erpreview?sb=s

His is the 12th one down. If you don't want to go to the link here is his exact words.

hotshot657:

"GTA3 is going to have reinhanced graphics so its going to look better than PoS2's. Plus, its going to have a Miami level in the game, which PS2 will get on the same day, but in an expansion for $30. So y dont u PoS2 fanboys give Xbox a break because it came out only 3 months ago and its going to kick PoS2 @$$ by the end of 2002 when it comes out with over 250 new games and online gaming (which u PoS2 fans can't have unless you spend $140 on a hard drive and a modem.) And would you please stop whining about your hands being too small for the Xbox's normal sized controller. ~The PoS's controller was made for Japanese hands which are smaller than American's~"

[BlackThornn]

Originally posted by Fortune
[B]

First of all I want a thing to be clear: I won't accept "console wars" threads to be posted everywhere, like for example in General Chat. I think we had enough of "Which one is better" threads and so on. So, this kind of threads will be closed from now on.

Good.

And another thing: Console wars exist, I'm not telling they don't have to exist, but considering they cause continuous offences and arguements, I won't accept them anymore here. You can cry, pray and swear they won't happen again, but I'm not letting you do whatever you want here, ok?

We, or at least I, am not asking to have free reign anywhere. The point is that this was out of the blue for many people. You gave no indication of annoyance, or even posted an "Everybody shaddap" message in the Other Consoles forum, you just closed it and in effect are giving the finger to everyone who was either shaping up or wasn't a problem in the first place.

I'm not questioning your freedom of speech, but it seems some members here don't quite uderstand the difference between serious and peaceful discussion and flaming others.
You're free to disagree with my decision (and it's also the decision of the other administrators). You just have to consider that closing one of the most visited forums of the site is not a popular choice and not even the right choice to attract more visitors, but I don't want this situation to go on.

Okay, are you talking to me or Funky? He was the one talking all that about freedom of speech.

And from what I've read in some of your posts, you're not even interested in behaving in a different way from now on to make me reconsider my decision.

Again, are you talking to me or Funky? You put a direct reply to my post in here so I'm guessing you are talking to me. If you HAD read my posts (latest ones) then you would have seen that I was a) Warming up more to Xbox games despite negative opinions about the console, and b) saying that I just was not going to post on that forum any more.

What else, Fortune, do you think I need to do to "behave in a different way" to make you reconsider my decision? Leave the site altogether?

[BlackThornn]

pipetender, your thread is most likely a large portion of the cause of this fiasco, I would not be talking.

Pipetender, i posted that in January 2002, at a completely different site than this! I was a newbie! So was everyone else that was posting theyre! My post fit right in with the rest! I never posted anything over here like that, so it doesnt matter anyway. And r u accusing me of making the PS2 ppl mad, and reacting like they shouldnt???

Originally posted by BlackThornn
pipetender, your thread is most likely a large portion of the cause of this fiasco, I would not be talking.

If Im not mistaking, u played a major role in that thread.

Fortune, if thats ur decision, then theyres nothing anyone can do about it. I probably wont be coming around here anymore because theyres nothing that interests me. You guys can catch me at budda.com. Maybe the Console Debating forums at vaticano.it Cyall!

[Pu the Owl]

BlackThornn, not because I quoted one of your phrases I meant to talk only to you. You're right, you're not a customer, that's why I don't have to leave the forum opened just to please you or all the others persons who acted in a stupid way there. If you were a customer, I would've acted in a different way. I'm not a complete stupid, you know
Yu're saying I had to ask for your agreement to close it? Oh, well, it's kinda pointless asking to usual visitors of that forum "Do you want me to close it or not?". You got the point, I hope.
Several warnings from me, Harry, SSSnake and Carlito has been sent or posted. You ignored them or what? Because I haven't noticed a change in the posts of the "other Consoles" forum.
It's your fault (your means not only Blackthornn's fault ---->don't ask me again if I'm talking to you ), not mine. You didn't care about it and the situation, after the several warnings, was the same.


And to all the others: posting stuff like this won't help you to get the forum back. If you want to stay and act in a mature way, just stay. I'm not forcing everyone to stay here. If you don't like the forums without the "Other Consoles Forum" you're free to leave and find another place for your beloved consoles wars.

I think I told you to stop accusing each others. I will close this thread if you still keep on posting this stuff.

[BlackThornn]

Deniro voice: Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin to ME?

[Infernal Mass]

Here's a dancing gizmo to help ease the mood of the thread.

https://www.vidavision.com/entertainm.../gizmo_ani.gif
Dancing Gizmo ©2002 Kabuki Magnifico

[BlackThornn]

*laughs* Great one, Kabuki. ^_^

[Pu the Owl]

*huggles the little gizmo*

Originally posted by hotshot657
Maybe the Console Debating forums at vaticano.it Cyall!

Hey that site has 5,000 members! Wow let's see...that's a tad bit more than the 353 here. And wait! They don't BAN you for saying you opinion. And they also don't close a whole friggin thread because you said something hurtful JEEEEZ gimme a break these mods overuse their power and maybe they should take a step back and say "hey we only have 353 members lets make this forum a little more interseting"

TrullallarelÃ*

[Pu the Owl]

pipetender, you're really annoying. It was a big mistake to let you come back. Here we go with your second ban
The same goes for hotshot and Funky Monk.
Now I think we don't need such stupid persons around here
You can go anywhere but here.

*waves*

[Spank-A-Thon]

Originally posted by Fortune
*huggles the little gizmo*

Okay, so let me get this straight - it's okay to spam (as you have above) but it's not okay for people to debate?

Okay, so there were childish things happening in that forum. And yeah, every now and then I would report what I considered to be an innapropriate post... but was it actually hurting anyone? No...

All that's happened is you have had a few people posting rubbish and winding people up - big deal! It didn't bother me in the slightest - some of the immaturity displayed actually quite amused me at times.

Besides the few times when I was forced to present my 'Dumbass of the Week' award (which was always taken in the sarcastic way I meant), I think you'll find I always posted with maturity, open-mindedness and with facts to back up my statements.

Debating about videogames in general is one of my passions, after all - there's only so much you can discuss about Final Fantasy or Metal Gear Solid - but now I can't even do this....

Now, I realise this is not going to be a popular thing for me to say - but it has to be said... I do not think the Other Consoles forum would have go into the mess it did if there were stronger, and more active, moderators involved. At lot of those threads could have been killed very early on - and we wouldn't be in the situation we are now. Like it or not, that's my perception of the situation.

And by that I do not mean banning members - you ban people who break the TOS, i.e. spamming, harrassment, verbal abusive, excessive foul language, etc - you don't ban people for being argumentative and close-minded. So with that in mind, I say congrats for not banning people needlessly.

There were some great posts happening in the Other Consoles forums - and some bad ones. I think it's one hell of a shame that it's closed.

- S

[Pu the Owl]

Hey! Me and Kabuki were only trying to calm down people with the gizmo thing.
And I've just banned three members, which I don't think was so unnecessary, because they kept on flaming each others also here.
I don't want to question the work of the mods of that forum, because I wasn't mod there and I think SSSnake also posted several times threads to ask people to act in a wise and decent way. It's also up to members to be respectful. If they're not, it's not a fault of the mods.
It's the 50th time I tell the same thing: debating is ok, but not keeping on posting the same silly stuff just to prove others are idiots.

[IcyMourdor]

Fortune, I commend your patience with them. I would have kicked them out right away, but that's just me.

Debating is fine, but the "debating" that happened in that forum was flaming. Nuff said. No ifs, ands, or buts.

As for this thread, i think is should be closed. All this thread seems to be is an attack on Fortune.

My final two cents for this topic.

[Harry]

Originally posted by Spank-A-Thon
Okay, so let me get this straight - it's okay to spam (as you have above) but it's not okay for people to debate?

Okay, so there were childish things happening in that forum. And yeah, every now and then I would report what I considered to be an innapropriate post... but was it actually hurting anyone? No...

All that's happened is you have had a few people posting rubbish and winding people up - big deal! It didn't bother me in the slightest - some of the immaturity displayed actually quite amused me at times.

Besides the few times when I was forced to present my 'Dumbass of the Week' award (which was always taken in the sarcastic way I meant), I think you'll find I always posted with maturity, open-mindedness and with facts to back up my statements.

Debating about videogames in general is one of my passions, after all - there's only so much you can discuss about Final Fantasy or Metal Gear Solid - but now I can't even do this....

Now, I realise this is not going to be a popular thing for me to say - but it has to be said... I do not think the Other Consoles forum would have go into the mess it did if there were stronger, and more active, moderators involved. At lot of those threads could have been killed very early on - and we wouldn't be in the situation we are now. Like it or not, that's my perception of the situation.

And by that I do not mean banning members - you ban people who break the TOS, i.e. spamming, harrassment, verbal abusive, excessive foul language, etc - you don't ban people for being argumentative and close-minded. So with that in mind, I say congrats for not banning people needlessly.

There were some great posts happening in the Other Consoles forums - and some bad ones. I think it's one hell of a shame that it's closed.

- S

A shame maybe, but it will remain as is. By the way, unfortunately we have limited resources, we spend the whole day on the site for free, because none of you here, thankfully, is a "customer". SSSnake did all what he could do on the forums, and he was helping us - YOU INCLUDED - for free too. By the way, your "dumbass of the week" was sarcastic, but was not helping the situation. There is a way to have more active moderators, and that's called $$$. Send it to me and I'll hire someone for the job.

And I think that I should have banned a little more, and I don't care of what the rules of banning usually are.

Oh, I really liked the first posts in this thread, and in fact Mercury Shadow was one of the first persons I thought of when we decided to shut down the forum. Because he was enjoying the Other Consoles forums like me: he wanted to know something more about the other great consoles around, nothing more. I'm sorry for you Mercury and for all the others like you.

[Uchiha Sasuke]

Hmm what can i say.Im appauled.I know this didnt have to happen.I kept trying to keep the peace in the other consoles forum but things just kept coming back to bite me in that @$$.I sent warning to members i put up threads concerning this topic but yet it didnt help.People seem to ignore whatever i have say.Well im kinda of glad in way.Now some people have learned there lesson that senseless insults and console bashing wont get anywhere.

[Pu the Owl]

I think moderating a forum like that one is difficult for anyone. Because if you close all dangerous or slightly offensive threads they say you're oppressive and you don't let them talk (as it happened), and if you leave them opened there's no way they start to hear what you have to say.
I've seen things like that happening in other forums, but very often mods choose to close all threads or to ban people immediately. Others don't mind if there are continuous flamings around their forums and it seems they consider arguments as a pleasant aspect .
I don't like both of those way of acting. Not being this one a huge forum, I thought there could be a certain order without banning many members and without closing all "dangerous" threads.
Sometimes if you ask nicely to change someone's attitude it works.
Not when it comes to console wars, it seems

Spank, trust me: we sent a lot of warnings trying to ask people to be reasonable, but it didn't work. I don't like banning members for stupid reasons and that's why I tried to warn them before taking any decision. They didn't want to understand my point nor the points of other mods. We tried to "save" them and the forum at the same time. I prefer spending my days in different occupations than reading arguments, but I didn't want to take a decision without trying to make them understand why they had to stop to act like that. It seems I must learn how to use psychic powers in order to avoid situations like this one

[BlackThornn]

Originally posted by Fortune
Hey! Me and Kabuki were only trying to calm down people with the gizmo thing.
And I've just banned three members, which I don't think was so unnecessary, because they kept on flaming each others also here.
I don't want to question the work of the mods of that forum, because I wasn't mod there and I think SSSnake also posted several times threads to ask people to act in a wise and decent way. It's also up to members to be respectful. If they're not, it's not a fault of the mods.
It's the 50th time I tell the same thing: debating is ok, but not keeping on posting the same silly stuff just to prove others are idiots.

Quite effectively calming, 'least for me. A good laugh does wonders.

Anyway.. with Funky, Hotshot, and pipetender gone, I think the problem was fixed two times over with the closing of the forum. Everybody do a dance now that they're gone! *does a jig*

Harry- The problem's been fixed twice over now.. (now that true exposure to the kind of stuff being tossed around on Other Consoles was brought to the surface), I think that if it were reopened at this point there would not be nearly as much trouble, but hey.. *shrugs* I'm just a forum goer, not Admin.

Sssnake- Chill, man. You were doing as good as you were able to do, if you had the power to ban posters, the problem would have been nipped in the bud, I believe, though. The point is moot now.

Your threads pleading for order were well recieved, just not by the ones who it was truly intended for, I respect you for trying to find a peaceful way out of there but I have to point out that there wasn't really one. Still, commendations just for putting up with that ****, it's more than I could have done. (as is readily apparent by my posts in reply to funky and hotshot's)

Spank- Calm down, bud. There's good spamming and bad spamming after all. Nobody is and indeed nobody could deny that you posted with open-mindedness and intelligence, as has been stated by many members, many times. I thought Dumbass of the Week was very funny and at times even disarmed the situation completely (as the Gizmo pic was intended to.. and did, 'least for me.). Banning members in this case was painfully necessary.. the ones that are now banned DID spam (bad kind) harrass, verbally abuse, and all that jazz. Sssnake didn't have the power do DELETE threads, which is what would have been needed, as the banned ones would have been just the kind of people to just make another thread same title after the other was closed. All he could do was close threads and plead for cooperation, which sadly he got very little of.


There are good and bad threads in every forum.. Debate is pretty much the point, as Spank said.. but alot of what was going on in Other Consoles was pointless flaming and bashing. I wasn't doing much to help the situation so I guess I shouldn't be talking, but still.

Editness: Fortune, hon.. I just looked through the threads again and the only "Shape up or we'll close it" type thread was posted by Carlito in like.. April. Kind of a longish interval between warnings. If there were others I can't see them. Guess I'm blind.. *stumbles about*

[Spank-A-Thon]

Originally posted by Fortune
I think moderating a forum like that one is difficult for anyone. Because if you close all dangerous or slightly offensive threads they say you're oppressive and you don't let them talk (as it happened), and if you leave them opened there's no way they start to hear what you have to say.

I totally agree - I don't think for one second that moderating the Other Consoles forums was going to be an easy task. But I have to ask - given the nature of an 'Other Consoles' forum, was it not anticipated that there would be 'console wars'? I'm sure SSSnake and Harry did as much as they could, but why only 2 mods when a forum that would be less volatile, such as the MGS forum, has 3? I'm sure the likes of Meryl, BlackThornn or Gaseous would have made good mods to help out SSSnake and Harry a bit... But please don't get me wrong, I most definitely appreciate the nuances of trying to mod a forum.

Spank, trust me: we sent a lot of warnings trying to ask people to be reasonable, but it didn't work. I don't like banning members for stupid reasons and that's why I tried to warn them before taking any decision. They didn't want to understand my point nor the points of other mods. We tried to "save" them and the forum at the same time. I prefer spending my days in different occupations than reading arguments, but I didn't want to take a decision without trying to make them understand why they had to stop to act like that. It seems I must learn how to use psychic powers in order to avoid situations like this one

Obviously I would not be aware of many of the warnings you dished out, but it pleases me that you do not act like the despots at some other forum that shall remain nameless... At least you gave these people a chance - it's simply bad manners that they chose not to heed your advice...

I visit this forum many times a day because in amongst all the rubbish there was some good posts and some good information. I'm sure it's even more frustrating for you guys than it is for me. But it's typical that the few shoudl ruin it for the many... *sigh*

- S