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[kupoartist]

Good News everyone: The UK's Daily Mail is crusading to Nanny everyone from nasty games like "Manhunt". So just what's going down in jolly england? Well, yesterday the mail was adorned with the headline "Murder By Playstation" - "Horror images on computer drove teenager to kill his friend aged 14". And that's basically it. Supposedly, a 17-year-old named Warren Leblanc killed 14-year-old Stefan Pakeerah with a claw hammer and knife, and Rockstar's Manhunt is responsible because Leblanc "was obsessed with it" (which minus the DM's journaltastic BS probably actually means "He played it once or twice"). Giselle Pakeerah now wants to get that game banned.

But the Daily Mail are involved, so we can't possibly stop there.

Supposedly now, Stefan's parents are "leading a mounting clamour for violent games to be banned". So the Daily Mail "did some research" (which basically means they shuffled into a video game store and poked grubby fingers at anything with a 16 or 18 certificate). Amoung these titles were GTA3, State of Emergency, Hitman, UT2004 and even Doom III (The game hasn't been released yet, but surely that doesn't stop me going into a shopping sentre and BFG'ing everyone?).

The Headlines today:
https://www.kupoartist.eclipse.co.uk/...crusade/01.jpg
Close Up on Mail's "research"
https://www.kupoartist.eclipse.co.uk/...crusade/02.jpg

[Infernal Mass]

Hasn't this tired excuse been used enough already? It was the game..it was the TV show...it was the music..it was the book..etc. Somebody or something must pay for the negligence of this troubled person's parents...

[kupoartist]

Pokemon = Evil

[Deathwatchz]

such a sick demented youth we have today that they are so easily corrupted by pixel violence! if they had their way, all R+ rated movies would be the antichrist. Porn would be looked upon like snuff movies. Anything that has any type of violence in it, or any form of "depravity" to children would be banned from the shelves. I feel that if they believe that children are so easily corrupted nowadays, why don't they lock them in a sensory-deprivation vat with no other information being fed to them but knowledge until they reach a mature age, where such corruption will be easily handled by their now-mature minds? It sickens me how they so easily point the finger at games and movies and t.v., but modern society has turned a blind eye to the mothers who let their children run rampant in the street gangs, and the real influence that they have is from the crack dealing pimps that replace the "father figure" because their own family has ignored and abused them since they learned how to walk and talk. ahh well, i think im just gonna get off the soapbox, but this is a load of $H!T.... why don't ya give these bastards a molotov cocktail for me kupo?

[trunks69420]

come on.. this is a serious issue... i mean.. i wouldnt have killed all those guys last summer if i hadnt played violent video games... you all know you have too.. you're just repressing your memories of it... these games are destroying us and you know way back when with killers like bundy and dahmer.. games music and movies called them too.. btw i listen to marilyn manson... i love bi sexual women... and i watch PG movies...

[Infernal Mass]

Originally Posted by kupoartist

Pokemon = Evil

.. it was not my fault, it was the pokemon!

[Vicious_2003]

Hasn't this tired excuse been used enough already? It was the game..it was the TV show...it was the music..it was the book..etc. Somebody or something must pay for the negligence of this troubled person's parents...

Couldnt have said it any better myself. Finally Mass makes a good point. These idiots are just looking for an easy target. And the gaming industry makes a much better target than some poor slobs that failed to pay enough attention to thier childeren.

I take holis in the fact that in a decade or so we wont have to worry about such nonsence. I see gaming becoming more and more popular to the point where these ppl stop attacking the industry. To the point where most congressmen and women have played a video game at some point in there life. The problem now is we have too many ancient congressmen who are quick to blame the latest technology for whats wrong with the world

[Redpyramidhead]

Umm... here we go again... *rolls eyes*

_RED_ stuff

[IcyMourdor]

Its all that society can really do together. Put together a scapegoat and point fingers. Unless you have NEVER made any sort of mistake in your life (meaning you are perfect in every way (if you think you are perfect, you are conceited, which means you aren't perfect)), then you don't have the right to be placing the blame on anyone.

I've written school papers, articles, and participated in numerous debates on the effects of video games on people. There are really three type of people that play games:

1. Gamer: I assume that a good 99% of the members here fit into this category. These are people who know that video games are just that, games. We have a lot of fun playing them, but we realize that life is more important than sitting in front of a TV/PC for hours on end. We play the games, the games aren't playing us.

2. Absent Gamer: Those who slip into the game a little too much. They have a hard time realizing the difference between their life and the life of some of their favorite characters. Many gamers who first start playing find themselves here. They "dream" of being in the game that they are playing. Granted, it would be fun if I could somehow fall in a Final Fantasy realm, I know that it isn't going to happen.

3. Immature gamer: This is where the most problems arise. They immitate the actions they see in the gaming worlds. They play the same way their heroes do. Some are harmless, like Sonic running. Some, like the afore mentioned Manhunt, can lead to problems.

Simply put. Those kids were having fun. Although they shouldn't have been playing around with real items such as those, that only increased the risk. Accidents happen, its part of what makes us human. Everyone can place blame on something.

"Its the video games for giving kids these ideas."
"Its the parent's fault for not watching out for them."
"Its the school's fault for not teaching those kids better."

The list goes on. There is no answer to the problem here at hand. Its basically putting parents against gamers. One word over the other.

It is sad that he lost his life to something so, as my roommate puts it, stupid. However, using video games as a scapegoat only shows how shallow and insecure you (the person who is placing blame) really are. Mature and realize that accidents do happen. Don't try and limit the fun of us gamers because some children weren't able-minded to realize the line of reality and fantasy yet. Don't blame us or anyone for that matter. Its a tragedy, but tragedies are everywhere. Get over it and move on with your lives.

[Sodge]

Mourdor knows the score. Thanks for telling 'em what I was going to say, and in a nifty green font at that!

[-PSX-]

I live in the UK and know the full story. The 17 year old teenager (Warren LeBlanc) killed his 14 year old friend (Stefan Pakeerah) with a claw hammer and knife. Apparently the teenager had been obsessed with the 18 certificate (ill get to that in a moment) game "Manhunt". Now we all know what Manhunts about so im not going into that (if not look on GameSpot or IGN). Now the Daily Mail (being the Daily Mail) has become involved with this and together with Stefan's parents they are launching a campaign to rid the stores with games filled with gore and violence. Here is a small list:

Grand Theft Auto 3
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
Manhunt
Hitman: Contracts (probably inclusive Hitman 2)
State Of Emergency
Doom Series
Unreal Tournament 2004
The Suffering
Soldier Of Fortune (I and II)

The first part of some of their research was to send two teenagers into stores to buy 18 certificate games. Unfortunatley they were spurred on by the fact that the teenagers had no problem buying them. Consequently to all this the fondly known 'Dixons' chain of stores including 'Dixons', 'Currys' and 'PC World' have now all removed Manhunt from shelves ac ross the country as has the leading videogame retailer 'Game' (fomerly 'Electronics Boutique') as a mark of respect. The problem is these teenagers should quite rightly not have been sold these games and should have had their IDs checked (if they had any). If parents choose to purchase an 18 or 16 certificate game for there child it is their responsibility to assure that the child is mature enough to be able to distinguish virtual reality from the reality. This is slightly overlapping Mourdors post so Ill leave you to refer to that.

Here are some of the headlines bound to drive people in a revolt over some plastic discs which are completley VIRTUAL:

IN YOUR HIGH STREET, A WORLD OF HORROR
DON'T LET CHILDREN SIMULATE MURDER
BAN THESE EVIL GAMES


And who mentioned free speech and freedom in the world? In countries of freedom we are being taken over by stupid, immature children who cannot see the extra word in Virtual Reality. Taking away our rights for what we would not mind seeing or hearing is not up to the people who prefer not to see it. It is their job however to stop people who cannot distinguish between these two different realities from seeing and hearing these things.

Why should we ban violent video games when violent films are tossed out one after the other every year by Hollywood producers. It is not the games faults that people cannot distinguish. But if the same happened from a film there couldn't be such a huge revolt could there because even more masses of money are involved in films that show violence, rape and everything under the sun which makes the whole argument, in my eyes, a complete and utter shambles by passing the blame onto a plastic cd or dvd.

[Infernal Mass]

I do believe that violent imagery in any medium..be it in a lurid book, television program or videogame..can at the margins, serve as a catalyst to those who are mentally unsound to begin with. That said a free society shouldn't place bans and adapt itself to a mentally disturbed persons standards, much is lost and little is gained.

[IcyMourdor]

Exactly. The Daily News has some shady work going on here. I doubt that this is just some noble cause to help parents. This is all just publisity for their paper. I believe that if neither of the two teenagers played any sort of video games, we wouldn't be having this discussion here. This topic has been around since I started reading (I think I was like 2-3 years old when that happened). "Violence in games cause problems and influence children." Yes, and so does sports, television, newspapers, parents, friends, pets, or any other combination of elements and matter.

Okay, now onto the banning of the games. Should video games be banned? Who are we to decide this answer?

Video games are made by companies. Companies sell these cartridges and disks as merchandise. I'm not sure how things are run in the UK, but here in the US, our economy works by people buying things. Spending money to keep the flow of money circulating to everyone. You cannot just tell someone they can no longer sell a product to a consumer because someone doesn't think its right and/or safe. In that case, I can sue and stop production of all companies and retailers that sell onions due to the fact that I get sick if I eat a lot of them.

Of course, they will have a defense to this, which will prove my point.

Their defense: I have knowledge of my own allergies. I also have knowledge to the risk that entails with them. I took the risk and it is my fault for eating a large quantity of them.

See my point yet? You can't just go and do something. The consumer knows of the risk that goes into each product. It isn't the gaming companies fault.

Okay, what if the consumer has no knowledge of this. Well, tough luck consumer, you still can't do it. The infomation about these games are made public knowledge through the rating systems that the ESBA places on every video game that is put on market. Since that information is available, you cannot claim that you didn't know. Its your fault as a consumer that you didn't look up this information.

Censorship and banning of games will continue to be a huge topic in the gaming world as long as one liberal parent thinks this way. Only two things are going to end it. One is if all the gaming companies stop makings games. Fat chance, this is a billion dollar industry. The second way is if people allow things to happen the way they are. Not going to happen since there is going to be at least one poor soul out there that wishes to ruin the lives of others to bring them down to their level.

Any first year law student can realize this, imagine what lawyers there are going to be on the side of the gaming industry. Preventing the selling of a product such as this is not going to happen. They have the rating system in place set by age brackets. They already have censored it enough.

If there does happen to be a ban on such video games, remember to all you UK gamers out there. Games are always available here in the US, so just move here.

[Infernal Mass]

"Manhunt Connection to Murder False?

News by: Funky ZealotPosted: 08/04/04

Turning the tide against the anti-Manhunters, police involved in the Stefan Pakeerah murder case have revealed that the copy of Manhunt was actually in possession of the victim, not the 17-year old killer.
Needless to say, the stunning twist will severely hamper the Pakeerah's case against Rockstar Games and Sony, which the family is suing and blaming for the death of the 14-year old. According to a spokesperson for Leicestershire Constabulary, the police division that investigated the murder, the game was not found not in the room of the murderer, but of the victim.

"The video game was not found in Warren LeBlanc's room, it was found in Stefan Pakeerah's room," the spokesperson said. "Leicestershire Constabulary stands by its response that police investigations did not uncover any connections to the video game, the motive for the incident was robbery."

The family was alleging that 17-year old Warren LeBlanc was "obsessed" with Manhunt, inspiring his brutal slaying of 14-year old Stefan Pakeerah. Although police have neither denied nor confirmed if LeBlanc was a fan of the game, the new twist will consolidate the case that the motive was drug-related.

The publicity for the ordeal now places the burden on the Pakeerahs, who are now in the spotlight for knowingly or unknowingly allowing the 14-year old to buy the 18-rated game. Even if bought in secret, a case can now easily be made against the family for not being responsible enough to know what game the child was playing. With the increasingly steep hurdles ahead in bringing the case to court against Rockstar and Sony, the lawsuit may find itself being quietly dropped."

CREDIT:GAMEPRO.COM

[Infernal Mass]

it only get's better..This lady leaded a crusade against Manhunt. Which only encouraged people to seek out the game even more..free publicity for Rockstar North.

When 14-year old Stefan Pakeerah was brutally murdered in a park in the UK in February, his grieving mother blamed the crime on Rockstar Games' violent stealth-action game Manhunt. The 17-year old accused of murdering Stefan with a claw hammer and a knife, it seems, was a big fan of the game. It later emerged that a copy of the game was found in Stefan's bedroom, raising questions as to how the schoolboy was able to get his hands on the 18-rated game.

With all of the publicity surrounding the murder and the decision taken by a number of major retailers to withdraw the game from sale, the level of interest in Manhunt, according to a recent report in the Daily Mail newspaper, is now higher than it was when the game was released last year. A spokesman for HMV, which still stocks the game in its 200 stores, told the newspaper that demand for the game had "significantly increased" and added that "people who had never heard of the game now want to buy it, many think it's going to be banned and that lends a certain cachet."

Mrs. Pakeerah, who has been campaigning to get Manhunt banned, has spoken of her sadness that Manhunt has sold out across much of the UK. "It doesn't really come as surprise, they say no publicity is bad publicity," she said. "But I must say I'm saddened and disappointed. The content of this game is contemptible. It's a societal hazard and my concern is to get it off the shelves as there's enough violence in society already."

[Daniel Legge]

Well if they are going to try and ban video games that feature violence surly they must ban films being made that contain violence. I somehow doubt they can totally stop children being exposed to some form of violence. Its kind of annoying how often games get blamed for stuff like that.