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[merylsilverburg]

I was going to put this topic onto that "Daily Debate" thread since this is kinda like a debate, but everyone seemed so into the current topic there I didn't want to disturb it with my dumb one.
But anyway, over the past few years I would read all these gaming magazines (EGM, PSM, OPM, Nintendo Power, etc.) and I would read their letter section. I would always, always come across some girl writing their complaint about how the videogame industry is so sexist when it comes to girls and videogames. It would always be stuff like "There's no need to put a big-breasted lead character in a game" or "Why is it that the videogame industry thinks that all gamers are male? I'm a girl and I could kick anyone's ass at Tekken" or "Why do they always have to make the guy rescue the girl?" and so on. And just in the recent issue of OPM, a girl wrote about "THUG" and how the characters in the game referred to your character as "man" or "dude" and how the Russian bystander asked if "you like Russian women" and your female character would say "Yeah". And she was having such a fit over it.
So, why is that there are so many girl gamers who always seem to have a stupid problem when it comes to stuff like this? Hello? Guys now know that a lot of females play games too and so girls don't have to continuously "prove" themselves that they play games or can beat any guys at any games. It makes me feel like these girls intentionally try their best at games just so they can say "Yeah! I can kick your ass!". What the hell is the point? And if you think about it, many guys who have girlfriends really don't prefer if their g/f play games too (I'm not saying all guys, but a lot). Because some guys have this thing where they need their girlfriends to be a little "girly" so if they play videogames too, the guys feel like they're with a "friend" or a "pal" instead of a girlfriend.
This isn't to say that I don't have a little "feminist" side to me. I get annoyed when the game is just all about girls and their bodies and stuff like that (like "DOA Volleyball" for example), but when it's stuff like "THUG" or "Tomb Raider" ("Oh, she's too busty! She's not intelligent at all!") then those are the things I can let go. I sometimes feel that these feminist girls who write in all the time about how "manly" they are, are actually more "girlier" than they think.

Something else that's annoying: when the developers decide to make the female lead character look "tough" and "guyish", then there are girls who also complain! "She's too manly looking! Why did they make her so butch? Can't she look more feminine?". I rest my case.

So, do you guys agree with me or do you think that I'm just a b*tch?

[Dactrius]

Women are just crazy, I don't think there's any other way of saying it. Nah I'm just kidding, although I do think it's a little tedious that this debate still goes on. Women complain with good reason of course, since the gender as a whole is being portrayed in this sexist fashion so much. But they're just a collection of pixels, a drawn image nothing more.

Let's face it - gaming is a male-dominated hobby, surely there's no denying it. In order for big companies to make money they have to appeal to the majority. If this means 'sexing up' their female characters then that's what they'll do. In a competing market like this, you might just have to upset people to get ahead. It's nothing personal, the companies aren't deliberately trying to cause arguaments. They're just trying to make money.

Women that complain about this are taking things too serious. It affects them with which I can sympathise, but no physical harm is being done. In my opinion they should just leave things alone, this 'trend' isn't going to change.

[merylsilverburg]

Originally posted by Dactrius

Let's face it - gaming is a male-dominated hobby, surely there's no denying it. In order for big companies to make money they have to appeal to the majority. If this means 'sexing up' their female characters then that's what they'll do. In a competing market like this, you might just have to upset people to get ahead. It's nothing personal, the companies aren't deliberately trying to cause arguaments. They're just trying to make money.

See, that's what I think too. I don't think it's harmful either and I just don't understand why so many females have to complain about it so much. And I'm sorry for starting up this debate/discussion, I just needed to get it out of my system.

[Pu the Owl]

I admit I find in some cases annoying or even offensive the stereotypical representation of women offered by developers of the videogaming industry. But I find offensive the representation they offer of men as well. It's all the same. And it's the same in the music or movies industry too. In some cases I think they offend the player, or at least some players, the ones who look for more than a shiny package and extreme coolness in a product like a movie or a game, keeping on offering the same old and banal representation of sexes and their roles, but since I can't be angry all the time and sadly this is how things go (if a stereotype can sell, you'll never get rid of it...), I prefer avoid some games/movies etc...
It's true that the general taste is still dominated by a rather strong sense of machismo, which is mainly aimed to preserve all the traditional aspects of virility. For this reason it's impossible to not consider the woman from a perspective that first of all must underline her beauty and physical appearance (often ridiculously exaggerated) and the effects this beauty have from a man's point of view, or that is aimed to make the woman more similar to the man, trying to make her act like a man, or do what a man would do. I think, and I could be wrong, that this way of representing the woman is the result of a videogaming industry almost completely directed by men, men who are not great observer of the human nature (there are exceptions, of course) and in which women have little creative part. Most women are used to accept this kind of representation of their roles in every other aspect of their lives, they only criticize that when it comes to superficial aspects, like in this case of videogames, but they don't find so strange when a man treats them like this or consider them only from a superficial point of view, not at all. On the contrary, they find pretty confusing when they're not treated like that in their everyday life. They find refuge in their traditional role, but then they get pissed when a big breasted girl appears in a videogame...

To end my post, I also say that I don't mind if I can beat a guy or not, if I can kick a guy's ass or not. I play to enjoy the game, not to enter some silly competition involving the superiority of "males" or "females".

[Infernal Mass]

i read a letter in an issue of gamepro about 2 months ago. In it a girl seemed pretty annoyed about FF x-2. The way rikku and yuna were exploited or something .. i dunno it seemed like she was making a big deal outta nothing to me.

It's hard to keep everyone happy, there are games that exaggerate with the female body and others that try to keep it realistic. I mean there's DOA on one side of the spectrum and Heather from silent hill 3 on the other. What it comes down to; is who are the games made for, what is the target demograph.

It's pretty easy to tell in advance.

[Vicious_2003]

All very valid points. And what it really comes down to is one simple idea that is prominant all over the world

SEX SELLS

And as was said of course the sexiness is going to be represented and practiced by female characters in video games because its mostly guys that play them..duh.

So are women exploited, yes. And do way too many women accept this exploitation...sure. But its hard to make any progress in the other direction when the biggest american teen icons (Like spears, aguilara, etc) are stripping naked at every concert. Sadly the general movement is towards more exploitation...and more and more females are welcoming it for one reason or another.

And to return to the topic at hand....girls complaining that female charcters in video games are too sexy..is like a man saying that male characters are poorly portraid on the Lifetime network (Womens TV channel) . Not enough would care to get things changed because most men dont watch womens networks just as most girls dont play alot of video games. So bottom line.....to all those femenist gamers out there....GET OVER IT.

[Redpyramidhead]

I would have to say the person I agree with most here is Panuru. The thing that should trouble girls most is the personality of the female characters in videogames and their intelligence. Indeed it seems quite true that girls in real life are quite confused when treated differently than they are very much taught by the media in our society they are supposed to be treated since a very young age. Anytime either sex has a chance to think outside the role society has so "wonderfully" painted for us, we seem to get confused. So, naturally when people who develop videogames go with the type of storylines they've been hearing their whole lives a lot of the same stereotypes are going to be repeated.

I could sit here and complain and say "well g, it sure would be nice to look like as buff and couragous as Simon Belmont or tall, dark, and handsome like Max Payne," but I couldn't care less because I am happy with who I am and (when I'm not in a bad mood) the way I look, as well.) Perhaps, more women feel differently, because they feel society puts more pressure on them to look like the way females ARE portrayed in videogames, movies, and on tv. If this is true, they have a right to complain, and be heard. I believe it is going overboard for an entire feminist group to try and change a whole videogame or attack the entire industry, but I suppose I admit that I can see where they are coming from.

BUt, the reason Meryl's argument (which was added to nicely by Fortune) is so important is because we as gamers should be more concerned with the value of the story qualities in videogames than making complaints about the appearance of the characters. I, as a gamer, am concerned about dumb storylines in videogames. THen, when they add stereotypical looking characters on top of a weak story without depth for those characters' personalities, then we can complain about it all.

_RED_ stuff

[Chara]

To tell you the truth I think people think too deep in stuff like this. The reason games are the way they are because that is how the character designers decided to make the models. When I drew female characters that were fat or anything, they had a fairly nice figure and decent sized breasts. The reason I drew em like that because, well... who the hell wants to draw a fat ugly person? Unless it fits in with the character.

Same with games. When you think of hereoes you dont think fat and ugly. You think someone thats fit and good looking. That's all they doing when they make the lead character female. Its nothing really about having guy gamers drool over the character, its just how the lead character should be. I'm a guy and I dont buy games because of the girls on the cover. Yea, I make jokes about games (like in DOA "she kicks high") but I dont drool over em. Hell, I remember when I played tomb raider I didnt even look at my character much while playing, like in other games.

The only reason things like this cause such a ruckus is because people look to deep into things.

[Redpyramidhead]

Originally posted by Chara
The reason I drew em like that because, well... who the hell wants to draw a fat ugly person? Unless it fits in with the character.

Man, that is hilarious. You made me laugh so hard, Chara.

Same with games. When you think of hereoes you dont think fat and ugly. You think someone thats fit and good looking. That's all they doing when they make the lead character female. Its nothing really about having guy gamers drool over the character, its just how the lead character should be.

The only reason things like this cause such a ruckus is because people look to deep into things.

I do agree that people look a little deep into the subject, including myself, at times. I do have to comment, though, that I find it interesting what the character designers for the Silent Hill series have been doing, though.

_RED_ stuff

[fantasytiger]

first people do not seem to relize that a video game is pure fantasy its all made up and the market was originally made up of guys until recently when we girls started gaming. Anyways video games are about story line and fun levels the designers have fun create perfect characters with killer bods and so forth because its their game their story line they make it the way they imagine it and I do not see why they should have to change it because people are so insecure i honestly do not care I get a good laugh when the girls boobs are so big that they had to break every rule in the book of physics to get them to stay up lol. Anyways insecure people are the ones who tend to make a really big deal about this they get so caught up in the design of the character that they forget that the game is to play and have fun. it lets you escape reality and be that character for a few moments. Also people have to complain about something anything its in their nature they think if they complain enough about somethin they can change the world. If they do not like the way female characters are designed get to school get a degree in computer drafting and image designing and get to work if not then do not play the games they are not forced upon you.
If the creators change there way over every little complaint then video games would still be pong.

(also dispite some of the apperance of the female characters they are pretty strong characters or at least the ones I have palyed and seen)