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[Vicious_2003]

I know theres already a post on the war but its kind of been turned into a heated argument and thats not what I want this thread to be. As with alot of Americans I was watching the 11:00 oclock news tonight and I saw something that quite honestly bothered me more than anything thats happened as of late. Now dont get me wrong I believe in protesting, we all have the right to do it but what i saw crossed the line of peaceful protesting into down right rioting. They showed people in Chicago, New York, California, in Australian Cities, just about everywhere where people were piling onto busy intersections , attacking Mcdonalds stores (Because they represent America ?), etc. In my opinion once your protests begin to hinder other peoples lives (Such as stopping traffic) you go from being a peaceful protester to being a no better than a criminal. These people want more than anything for their opinion to be heard and respected yet, what about the people in the cars youve stopped, what about the ones who support the war..clearly you have no respect for thier opinion, and you are disrespecting them by preventing them from getting to where there going. I know If I were going somewhere and I was stopped by a bunch of hippies carrying anti war signs I would go nuts and probably end up loosing my temper and doing something I would regret. In my opinion these people are nothing more than nuisances and should be treated as such, I praise the police who use pepper spray on these idiots. Why do people think that there opinions are important enough to interrupt other peoples lives over, what makes them so vain ?

[Pu the Owl]

If people decide to protest, they must do it. If stopping traffic is a consequence of it, there's nothing wrong. I mean, war is interferring with our lives... So this is not disrespecting any kind of sacred rule, it's only expressing the basic right of disagreement to others. It can be annoying for others, but in cases like this one it's not that we can speak using these terms.
As for attacking stores like McDonalds, that's one thing I can't stand. Ok, you want to discredit the power of a country boycotting its symbols. Don't go to the McDonalds, don't wear American brands of clothing, don't smoke American cigarettes and so on... But why do you have to use violence to express your ideas? That's plain stupid. It means you are the first to think a peaceful protest won't be effective. You're in brief acting in the same way of the form of powers you're trying to boycott. This is nonsense, and it's also quite hypocritical.

[Vicious_2003]

I also see it as an abuse of freedom. I mean we have ALOT of freedoms/privlidges in this country and tons of laws protecting them. I mean youd never see people pulling this crap in Japan and getting away with it . Why /. Because In japan the police would imediatly tear gas your sorry but and probably man handle slash beat you till you were out of sight, and thats if your not lucky enough not to be put in jail instead. But ofcourse here in the U.S we have to be fair to the citizens and repsect thier right to protest whilst allowing them to intturrupt other peoples lives and break windows for hours unitll we finally and pretty peacefully disperse the crowd . Fortunes right about one thing, if you want to Protest a war there are a hundred different ways to do it that dont involve violence and dont negatively and directly effect other peoples lives. Becasue when it does as Goodman stated you are nothing more than a person contributing to a riot. (Id just like to add that there was a spelling error in the Title of this thread (as if you hadnt figured that out) due to my not being able to type worth a damn I am in no way against pre testing so any of you who happen to be teachers dont have to write me hate mail)

[Kimahri]

This is my own opinion, and I hope nobody bans me from saying this, because I really am giving my opinion and this is an opinion forum, where everybody has a right to post their opinions.

I think that Bush is to much up into war, and is just having war, because what happened to his father. I think that we shouldn't be at war either. He<Bush>is just doing this also because he can't help our economy. Don't you see more bums on the street now because of this. And also when somebody brings up the economy, he changes the subject. I am with all the people who protest, cause I think this war has no special meaning to it. *Opinion-I think if Al Gore won, this wouldn't have happened, because those people in Iraq and Afghanistan don't like Bush* With Clinton did you see any war happen? It all happened because Bush won the election. Al Gore would have been more into our economy and more worried about the United States, and America would have been a better place. People would have good jobs, and we wouldn't be in this predicament right now. Kids are losing their parents because they have to be in the war. We should leave other countries alone, and let them fight their own battles! He is our persident, not Iraqs president, so leave them alone. And also, we shouldve finished this mess a long time ago, and we wouldnt have this stuff today. I hear kids at my school not caring, and saying that they should bomb the whole country and even innocent people, and I think to myself, people are going hay wired because of the news talking about 24/7. We should protect this country, but at least worry about people's jobs so at least we can survive.


This is my opinion, nobody has to read it, or believe it, but thats what I think, I left it without crude words that I wouldve used, but I left it simple, because I know administratos here don't want sapm, so I am being kind, but voicing my opinion cause nobody else listens to me!

[Preventer Wind]

Well I haven't seen an increase in bums on the street..... And we still would have gone to war if Gore were president (9/11) unless Bush becoming president was the reason so many people died on 9/11. And I don't think other countries don't just dislike Bush, I think they dislike the entire US. How many people outside the US could tell you where Bush was governor?

Our economy is a different thing though. I think we still would have seen the corrupt companies like Enron. But I think that the lower class would be in a lot better situation. My dad seems to think of Democratic as Robin Hoods with a twist. "Steal from the rich give to the poor so they can spend it on drugs and booze." (Which applies to some people) My mom thinks that most Republicans are greedy selfish bastards (Which applies to some people, rich or poor). My parents are divorced and make about the same amount of money a year (Wonder why they are divorced )

Tons of American lives? I have heard that only 2 have died. And let me dedicate the next two lives to them....


The war is almost over already. It's basically 20 countries on 1. Iraqi troops have already started to surrender and bring down images of Saddam. One high ranking officer for Iraq surrendered with his troops. The troops will be in Baghdad within 72 hours. They said there was a 20-mile long chain of tanks. Is it possible to get by that without some weapon of mass destruction?

I think your view on isolationism is one a lot of people share. I myself feel like that at times when I see other countries hold anti-American rallies and burn the flag. Then I think, "Why not take them over?". I still have not answered that question. I just tell myself that is wrong. I hear people at my school (mostly pro war, teachers and all) say the same thing about bombing everyone.

I agree that this thing should have been finished a long time ago. No reason it wasn't.

Protesting is ok as long as it does not disrupt other people's lives. Rioting after sports events is just flat out wrong. People have DIED because of this. Nobody should die because of sports unless you die playing it. It is unacceptable for people to burn and loot after games.

Weapon the US has used tear gas (and other things) to stop riots and protests before. Hell look at the 60s. Look at all those damn cops beating down the black people. Not only did they do it to the men but also to children and women.

This is a story an ex teacher told the class I was in. He said that a couple of terrorists in Russia took over a plane that was full of people and demanded that they receive money. The Russians gave them 30 seconds to get out of the plane. The terrorists didn't and BAM blew up the plane with the people and terrorists in it! That makes tear gas look humane.

I totally agree with you goodman about the LA riots. That got out of control. Their reasons were good but what they did was way way way over board.

You people made a bunch of good statements. I listened to you Besaid.... sorry if I rambled on... I get lost in my thoughts and just type....then I see what I type and I....am rambling on. DAMN ME!!!!!

[Hylas]

Originally posted by Weapon_XZ84

I also see it as an abuse of freedom. I mean we have ALOT of freedoms/privlidges in this country and tons of laws protecting them.

If you don't have the right to say "No, I don't agree with that! I'm against it!" your privileges and freedom are just nothing.

[DragonSphere]

Some of the more recent protests have definitley gone too far; what with all the traffic and distrubance they have been causing. I know they're just doing this so as to be heard by the public around them, but come on, they need to understand that some people just want to go on with their lives as much as they can. They're families to take care of, jobs to go to, money to make...these and other factors are not even taken into consideration by these protestors. Sure, the problems caused by these protests are perhaps pale in comparison to what citizens in Iraq are facing, but the thing is that they don't have to conduct themselves the way they are doing now.

And as someone else stated in the war thread, these protests won't change a damn thing during the course of the war. I'm fine with people venting their anger and all that, but what is happening right now is going too far. Do it some place else. Not in the cities, were you can disrupt and frustrate thousands of people. I'm glad the cops arrested a lot of those bastards. Those people deserved it for the trouble they have caused.

[BlackThornn]

Protesting as in peaceful demonstration is a right.

What I see happening in places such as San Fransisco, where I live, is not protesting, it is RIOTING.

Idiots in this country jumping up and down on uninvolved person's cars chanting "No blood for oil!" and vandalizing buildings are not only making fools of themselves but they are making it easier for conservatives (and in my opinion hypacrites) to decry and dismiss ALL protesters as radicals. They are hurting the anti-war cause more than helping it.

Idiots in OTHER countries are proving to just be hateful vandals. I mean vandalizing McDonalds stores? C'mon. That's getting ridiculous.

Disagreeing with the government, the president, or anyone is a right ensured by the constitution of this country. Protesting peacefully to show this disagreement is a right. It doesn't make anyone unpatriotic, and it is in no way an abuse of freedom. Unfortunately in EVERY GROUP there are some extremists who "ruin it for everyone", and in this case they are changing protests to riots.

And frankly too many people have DIED to preserve that kind of freedom in our wars for anyone in this generation or any following to change that.

[JC Denton]

someone tell be why we are justified to be at war because blair doesnt have a clue, is it just becase he wants to copy bush?

and im sorry but anyone who says bringing democracy into the region is good is overlooking one thing,

YOU CANT FORCE DEMOCRACY, thats an oxymoron,

great get rid of saddam, (hes a nasty man) but as soon as the first innocent man,women or child is killed in iraq the war is unjustified, nobody has the right to decide who can rule which country.

we in briton havn't invaded a country for a long time without them provoking us first so why do it now,

that said we have to be patriotic and rally round the flag now......we have to support the troops but we can all hate TONY BLAIR becuse he is starting to get to big for his boots, he is only the priminister not the ruller of everything..

nagging over......

[Vicious_2003]

The way I view it is that as a superpower we have an obligation to do our best to make the world more peacful. If that means going to war with a corrupted nation than so be it. I truly feel for the innocents citizens in Iraq. But clearly from thier responses (Tearing down Saddams posters) and accepting thier american occupation (All be it temporary I hope, the occupation that is) Id say the majority of peacful citizens in Iraq seem to be in favor of the U.S and Britains campaign. Thier is no reason why in a civilized world thier should be men like Saddam Husane in power over good people. I dont care if he has Weapons of Mass destruction or not it just isnt right and if it means that peoples lives must be sacrificed then so be it. If I were drafted Id go to war for my country willing to sacrafice myself for the good of the world , it would take some serious thought but Id talk myself into it . Its better for lives to be lost in the effort of making the world more peacuful than lives being lost to a ruthless dictator who decides to up and launch some missles some day. Or in a terrorist attack. Its terrible that people get killed in war it truly is...but it is to be expected. Without sacrafice thier would be no peace..if it werent for the U.S and other nations going to war against public opinion this the world would be a much more dangerous place. Hell thier might still be slavery in america without the Civil War (Who knows), and for the same reason we would a more primitive nation having not implimented Factorys and such to the extent we have. If we hadnt had our hands in the World Wars Europe would most likely be a VERY different place . Hell Germany would occupy most of it and could very well carry on Hitlers ideals for god knows how long. While all of this is just speculation I belive it proves my point that WAR IS neccesary and isnt always such a negative thing, the end justified the means in most wars and I belive it will be the same in the Crude War (Current war in Iraq) . I just hope that we get Saddam in one way or another. He said he wouldnt leave Iraq alive and I hope he keeps to his word. If he were to escape he could form a terrorist organization of his own that could rival Al Quiada*. Thats my biggest fear. And THATS my opinion

[tha16thletter]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with protesting, that's a given.. we are a democratic society and doing such is 100% okay, whatever the protest is about. But when you impede on OTHERS rights, that is when it goes too far. So no, Fortune, if stopping people in streets is part of their protest, and jumping on people's cars and ruining/scaring people is part of it, THEIR rights are being disrupted, and such the protestors lose certain rights, because now it is a criminal action.

In fact, in Tae Kwon Do when my Master had a seminar about self defense, he asked a local policewoman when it is okay to use self defense techniques... and one instance is when "anyone is impeding your forward progress and your will to get from one place to another"... so basically, if they stop you from going where you want. I say run the hippies over with your car, if they're bangin on your hood and stoppin' you from getting to YOUR job or YOUR family which they should be at, by all means do what you have to.
[]D

[mark0™]

I agree with that16thletter, Having been to a recent anti war protest, I was disgusted, even though I was technically on they're side and didn't want war, these protesters were such idiots.

[Lost_myth]

I don't hAVE TIME TO READ ALL THIS RIGHT NOW, BUT i'LL READ IT LATER.

WE ALL NEED TO STOP PROTESTING! WE NEED THIS WAR. SADDAM NEEDS TO GO DOWN.

[Redpyramidhead]

Originally posted by Chick3nWire

I don't hAVE TIME TO READ ALL THIS RIGHT NOW, BUT i'LL READ IT LATER.

WE ALL NEED TO STOP PROTESTING! WE NEED THIS WAR. SADDAM NEEDS TO GO DOWN.

Along with countless innocent civilian lives? And the lives of our soldiers? They're dying right now, as we speak. If this does not bother you in the slightest...fine...feel the way you do.

_RED_ stuff

[Preventer Wind]

You guys see the protesting of the protestors? Now that is just wacky

Goodman you are correct. Saddam has been given enough time. Not just months but years. And what do you know? Iraq has used some of those illegal weapons. There have also been reports that a chemical factory has been found. HE is as much responsible for the lives lost as Bush. And only 20 lives lost (not sure) is a small number. Did you guys see/hear what happened to the POWS? If that does not justify it then I don't know what does.

But this is a protest thread. I say protest away as long as it is peaceful and does not disturb me. Go ahead...preach, “Make babies not WAR!” I think it is a little too late to be protesting the war though. I wouldn't call these people hippies. Just because you protest a war does not make you a hippie, I think.

[Lost_myth]

America didn't get our freedom by backing down. Have ya'll forgotten how it felt that day; when those two towers fell; when the city was engulfed with smoke and ashes; When we saw our homeland under fire and her people blown away? We still had neighbors still inside going through a living hell and we should forget about bin Laden? WE have people going to war and you can bet they know what they're fighting for!!

--Darryle Worley has a song called "Have you forgotten?" Where it talks about these things.


I'm not just saying these things because it's in a song or just for an arguement; he makes good statements and I believe this too.
Have a nice day...