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[Daedaelus]

Simple question. I'm just asking out of curiosity. I think, unless a person has been living on Mars for the past decade, with their fingers plugged in their ears, that everyone knows about the potential health risks of smoking. Please don't post stuff like "NOO!!! I DON'T SMOKE, AND I HATE SMOKERS!!! I WON'T PAY TO KILL MYSELF!"

Ok, no big deal, but control your emotions.

So, I'll start us off. Yes, I do smoke. Camel Full Flavors.

[Vicious_2003]

Ok let me start by first saying this is something I feel VERY strongly about so if i go overboard..thats why.

I do NOT smoke. I think it has got to be one of the dumbest decisions a person could make. There is NO reason to smoke. I can see how my parents generation could have gotten hooked on that trash. But there is no friggin excuse for my generation to pick up such a filthy addiction. We have all known the serious health risks sence 2nd grade yet there are still kids stupid enough to start smoking. Its something that has always bothered me...it makes me sick to see young people killing themselves with niccotene.

Niccotene needs to be outlawed in this world. Anything, and I mean ANYTHING that is addictive should be against the law, even more so when its detrimental to ones health. If a company started putting addictive substances in thier product lets say..mcdonalds hamburgers for instance. They would be sued immediatly and some mcdonalds execs would be seing jail time. Yet niccotene is extrrremly addictive and the government has no problem with that. Makes no sence at all no matte rhow you look at it. The only reason its not made illegal is because the governent is making billions off of it with thier rediculously unfair taxation.

Im sorry...I know you asked a yes or no question..I just had to speak my mind.

[Daedaelus]

/me plays Devil's Advocate:

Well, even video-games are addictive. Extended periods of time infront of a television playing video-games causes a slow loss of vision. Come to think of it, video-games are almost carcinogenic themselves. As for the government's decision to deal with it, I think what they're doing currently is adequate. There are warnings on EVERY cigartte box, telling you that smoking is dangerous to one's health. If an individual decides to smoke, it's their business. IF smoking is to be banned, it would be like taking away a person's civil liberties.

As for what you said about young people killing themselves with cigarettes... I completely agree. There is a reason smokes aren't sold to anyone under 18. I don't think a child has the ability to determine that smoking is detrimental to health, and children make decisions based on fads.

[tempted]

No i don't smoke..can't see the point in doing it really...

Originally posted by Daedaelus
There is a reason smokes aren't sold to anyone under 18..

Really?! well that's in the US because in here (Portugal) any 10 year old can buy a pack of cigarettes...it's actually a very dumb thing but it's true...

[Pu the Owl]

I do smoke, now and then, not much to be honest. I do know it's not healthy, but there are many other things that ruin your health everyday, from sleeping habits to using some body care products to what you eat or drink to breathing the poisonous air of the city; if you pay attention to everything, you'll end becoming completely insane. I'm not an addict, as I said. I could smoke 25 in a row and then stop for 6 months without any problem. Usually I only smoke 4 or 5 during the day, but it can vary depending on the mood, on the day, etc. I do smoke mostly to control hunger or to control stress, or sometimes just because I like to feel the taste of a cigarette. But I never smoke at home when I cannot open all windows in the room (for this reason it's easier for me to smoke in summer than in winter ) or when there are children around.

Where I am living you need to be at least 16 to buy cigarettes. That's what law says. The reality is a bit different though, in fact sellers never ask documents before selling a pack of cigarettes to anybody. Law should punish and control with severe measures tobacco sellers. Which is something that costs too much in terms of money and efforts, so nobody has real interest to do it. All they do is print on each pack of cigarettes a huge slogan written in black letters on white background saying "Smoke damages your health" or "Smoke kills" hoping this will stop weakest smokers. Like if there's still anybody thinking smoke is healthy

[Piggle_humsy]

I used to smoke until just over a year ago.. I was never really addicted to them as I never used to smoke when I was around my dad even though he smokes he didn't like me to and so xmas'02 I came home to my dads and stopped. As I was gonna be around my dad for about 2 weeks I thought if I can stop for 2 weeks whats the point of starting again so I just threw my last pack away and have never smoked again. I feel really proud of myself as I didnt need any products to help me give up I just stopped and that was that and at the same time I stopped biting my nails aswell which was also very hard and amazing seeing as I thought i'd bite my nails alot more after I stopped smoking but I didn't and now I have "cleanish" lungs and nice pretty nails. Yay go me!

I hate the adverts they have here to get people to quit, there's 2 that they brought out recently which are quite horrifying.. one is lots of babies breathing out smoke and the message is "They smoke when you do" and the other is people smoking and stuff like Fat is oozing out the cigarettes and they tell you thats what clogs your body and they empty out an artery of someone who smoked and all the fat oozes out. It's really gross and I think if I hadn't stopped smoking by now that would definitely do it!

Piggle
x x x x

[trunks69420]

I smoke marb lights... newports... and pretty much ne thing w/ niccotine in it... I tried to quit but said to hell with it recently... but i have quit all my other "bad" addictions so this isnt so bad compared to what i was doing ah well...

so yes i smoke

[Vicious_2003]

Well, even video-games are addictive

Show me the studies that prove a phsical addiction to video games is possible , and ill accept that. But im afriad they arent. Is it possible that someone could form a psychological addiction to video games...maybe..but thats because theyre own reality is so dismal that they attach themselves to these virtual realitys so to speak that they find in video games.

But you cannot honestly try and compare the addictive powers of niccotene to video games. 80% of people who smoke a pack of ciggerettes are physically addicted afterwords. I find that alot of niccotene users just make excuses for niccotene that are no wher enear realavent. My family especially. Niccotene users tend ot get VERY defensive about thier habit..its sad really.

I msyelf just couldnt see being physically dependant on some drug. I wouldnt be able to live like that. But it seems to suit other people...so to each his own for now.

As for the government's decision to deal with it, I think what they're doing currently is adequate.

Hmm..I respectfully dissagree with you there. The governement is doing what they are doing now to save face and make money. They have steadily increaed the tax on niccotene products over time. Not because they think it will force people to quit..(It would take a hell of alot more than that) but to increase thier take on the product. And dont get me started on the warnings. Hell, young adults my age have been beaten silly with anti tobbaco prapaganda. And is it doing any good ? Not if you ask me. Look around at all the people aged 16-30 who smoke....its sickening. So you think these labels are going to prevent smoking ? HELL NO.

I don't think a child has the ability to determine that smoking is detrimental to health, and children make decisions based on fads.

Very true but at the same time. THERE is no good reason to smoke. I bet none of you can give one good reason to START smoking or much less continue other than "IM addicted and I cant quit". So really, a trying to fit in or go with the latest fad is the ONLY reason to start..and its a bad one at that.

IF smoking is to be banned, it would be like taking away a person's civil liberties.

That by that mode of thinking shouldnt heroin be legalized ? Hell crack is addictive and harful to ones health just as niccotene is..shouldnt it be my civil liberty to smoke CRACK or any other drug by your estimation ?. Im not against niccotene because its harfull to ones health. Im against it because it doesent give its users a choice. If you try it once your pretty much hooked for life. One simple decision at a young age can leed to a life of smoking and all of its harmful effects. If it werent addictive and people smoked I would be fine with it. But it is not fair for a company to put out a product that people get hooked on..I dont know how people dont see that, and I dont know how the law can allow that.

[Daedaelus]

Show me the studies that prove a phsical addiction to video games is possible , and ill accept that. But im afriad they arent. Is it possible that someone could form a psychological addiction to video games...maybe..but thats because theyre own reality is so dismal that they attach themselves to these virtual realitys so to speak that they find in video games.

According to some studies it would appear that the excitement of video games causes the brain to release a chemical that is, in essence, addictive.

Source.

Well, there is your proof that video games are not only psychologically addictive, but physically addictive as well.

That by that mode of thinking shouldnt heroin be legalized ? Hell crack is addictive and harful to ones health just as niccotene is..shouldnt it be my civil liberty to smoke CRACK or any other drug by your estimation ?

What you mention is here is preposterous. Heroin/Crack/Marijuana (except for medical purposes), are illegal beacuse they alter a person's brain chemistry. When you shoot up, or smoke crack, or smoke pot, you are chaning the way you think, because these drugs work to alter your perception of reality. If you would like me to, I can post pictures of what happens to Heroin/Crack users, and pictures of cigarette smokers, and you make the comparison yourself.

[Cannibal Clown]

NO!

[Virtualeclipse]

No im not ready to die... Plus im not of age

[Vicious_2003]

Well, there is your proof that video games are not only psychologically addictive, but physically addictive as well.

Okay assuming that that study is for real. You still CANNOT compare the two. Im sorry. But 95% of tobbaco users are completely addicted to niccoetene. How many video gamers are addicted. Out of the tons of people I know who game I Might and I stress "MIGHT" know one who goes a little over board And btw video games dont kill you (In most cases anyway). Why must we make excuses for such a filthy habit ?. Especially ones as rediculous as comparing playing video games to smoking cigerettes..get real. Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me

What you mention is here is preposterous. Heroin/Crack/Marijuana (except for medical purposes), are illegal beacuse they alter a person's brain chemistry. When you shoot up, or smoke crack, or smoke pot, you are chaning the way you think, because these drugs work to alter your perception of reality. If you would like me to, I can post pictures of what happens to Heroin/Crack users, and pictures of cigarette smokers, and you make the comparison yourself.

Is it ?. So what your saying is that its not how many of its users a drug kills its HOW they kill them. A drug that destroys ones lungs and causes cancer is acceptabel while a drug that destroys ones brain is not !?. Now THAT is preposterous my friend

[Deathwatchz]

i think that this quickly went from a simple question to an all-out debate. personally, i used to smoke, but i joined the military, and haven't been able to smoke for the last 7 months. as long as you know the final results of smoking, which is often posted multiple times on television, then the chioce is up to you in the end. i quit myself because i, unlike a majority of people, am forced to run 2 miles a day three days a week, and i am expected to run it in a certain amount of time. smoking wouldn't do too much to me, but i am also asthmatic, so the paralysis of cilia in my lungs, combined with asthma makes it extremely uncomfortable to run 2 miles in 15 mins.. i understand both sides of the argument, since i have seen both myself. for those smokers who can control themselves and keep it under the 4 cigs. a day limit, which happens to be the mark where your body can keep up, then they are not doing very much damage to themselves, and it isn't permanent. for those 1,2, or 3 pack a day smokers. i pity them, because they will end up losing quite a bit of lung tissue. for those of us on the site who are taking this debate into the personal level, i think you need to take a chill pill. as for stuff like abortion or politics, i can understand, but smoking??? calm down a little, sheesh.

[Daedaelus]

Originally posted by Vicious_2003

Is it ?. So what your saying is that its not how many of its users a drug kills its HOW they kill them. A drug that destroys ones lungs and causes cancer is acceptabel while a drug that destroys ones brain is not !?. Now THAT is preposterous my friend

Agreed. Both tobacco, and heroin/crack kil. However, you must realize that addictions to heroin/crack cause the user to do some pretty bad things to get their fill. I know I'm bringing in the state of society into this debate, but hear this: Why do most people kill, or rob, or steal, or rape someone? Most of these people are junkies, who need the cash to finance their expensive habit. I won't go out and stab someone just because I haven't had a smoke in a day. A heroin/crack user will kill/stab somone because he/she hasn't had crack/heroin in a few hours. I spend about $25 /week to buy my smokes. I know a friend who takes heroin. She pays $1000/week to get her stuff. Where does this money go? It's a chain: User>Dealer>Supplier>Producer(who need gang members to protect their stuff)>Prostitution... Do you see the difference? Heroin/Crack bring out the worst in society, but cigarettes don't.

Granted, people who stop smoking experience withdrawl effects, which are mostly night sweats, hyperventilating, etc. Nothing major.

Do you know how bad the withdrawl effects are for a heroin user? As a med-student, I've seen the substance abuse ward in my hospital. I've seen firsthand what happens to junkies. People cannot live without their heroin. I've seen patients die from fits, or convulsions, caused by lack of heroin/crack in their system.
THAT is the reason why heroin/crack is illegal.

I'm not making any excuses. I smoke, and many people consider it a bad thing. What I dislike is people comparing something like heroin/crack to cigarettes. Don't take it personally my friend.

[Daedaelus]

Originally posted by Cannibal Clown

NO!

You didn't have to do that. A simple "No" would have been sufficient. We get the message, but you don't have to scream.

[Beretta55]

I'm underaged to smoke but even if i was of age i wouldnt. I dont think of anybody diffrently for smoking all i know is im not going to do it. I also dont like people who light up a cigarettes right next to you making the cigarette smoke blow right into my face. Fortunely that has only happened a few times.

[Infernal Mass]

i don't smoke, yet still i get annoyed by those truth.org commercials. i remember when thier website got hacked,

[Vicious_2003]

Don't take it personally my friend

Not at all. I am actually enjoying this spirited discussion. You've made some good points that I agree with..and some that I dont. But you must admit..comparing niccotene to heroin is a closer comparrison than say....video games to niccotene....dont you agree

btw..Im not saying that niccotene is as bad as crack..Id be a fool to argue such a point. Im just saying that by thier addictive elements they should both be made illegal...not just one...not just the other....BOTH IMHO. If someone wants to do something that harms them..such as blading, starving themselves, binging on alcohol..etc...then so be it. But it isnt right to allow something that is as HIGHLY addicting as niccotene to be pumped into the streets and into the hands of young people. People have the right to harm themselves..but they should also have some control over this...niccotene doesent allow for much control sence soo many people have physical addictions to it.

Anyway its good to have someone to debate that doesent take things too personally, thanks for that Daedaelus . And rememeber for further reference that unless someone insults me or a friend openly...I NEVER take things personally. So dont be afriad to get in my face a little during debates if you need to

i don't smoke, yet still i get annoyed by those truth.org commercials. i remember when thier website got hacked

I see what you mean. Soemetimes it seems like the people running those adds are extreemly out of touch with young people. And you can tell alot of the info is exaggerated.

My favorite is when the two kids are smoking weed in one of thier parents studies and one finds a gun. And one shoots the other after an exchange of words. That was just flat out amusing and rather far fetched. (Youd really have to see it to understand, I know kids shooting each other isnt funny...but the way they did it certainly was)

And then they claim that every ten seconds someone dies of tobbaco use in the world in thier latest add. Lets not mention that a million other things may have contributed alot more than tobbaco use to thier deaths. Some guy has a stroke while smoking a ciggerette and it was tobbaco that killed him....riiight.Seems like anyone who dies who smoked dies because of tobbaco. They really try and sensationalize and over exagerate the harm of niccotene

[Deathwatchz]

Originally posted by Vicious_2003

My favorite is when the two kids are smoking weed in one of thier parents studies and one finds a gun. And one shoots the other after an exchange of words. That was just flat out amusing and rather far fetched. (Youd really have to see it to understand, I know kids shooting each other isnt funny...but the way they did it certainly was)

as for that, i can say it isn't too far fetched.. something very similar happened to my stepdad, that's why he hates weed. he got robbed by a couple of his sister's friends, and they beat his ass and put him in the hospital, saying they would be back. so he had a gun next to him whenever he slept, locked, loaded, and off safe. two of his friends got totally stoned off thier asses, and one of them decided to point the gun at the other and pull the trigger, so my stepdad had to sit there and hold his best friend in his arms as he died... not too far fetched, actually...

as for the truth commercials, i think they are hilarious. i love em'

[Daedaelus]

btw..Im not saying that niccotene is as bad as crack..Id be a fool to argue such a point. Im just saying that by thier addictive elements they should both be made illegal...not just one...not just the other....BOTH IMHO. If someone wants to do something that harms them..such as blading, starving themselves, binging on alcohol..etc...then so be it. But it isnt right to allow something that is as HIGHLY addicting as niccotene to be pumped into the streets and into the hands of young people. People have the right to harm themselves..but they should also have some control over this...niccotene doesent allow for much control sence soo many people have physical addictions to it.

I understand where you're coming from. It is wrong of young people to have access to cigarettes, or anything extremely addictive. However, these young people have a mind of their own. They make the decisions to smoke or not. Smoking can be a much needed salvation for some people. It releases a hormone in your brain that controls stress, it can fill in for a meal when you haven't eaten in a while, and it calms your nerves.

Anyway its good to have someone to debate that doesent take things too personally, thanks for that Daedaelus . And rememeber for further reference that unless someone insults me or a friend openly...I NEVER take things personally. So dont be afriad to get in my face a little during debates if you need to

Thanks for the compliment. Yeah, I don't feel it necessary to take things on a personal level. We debate for a bit, and then its over. I believe in moving on. BTW, you have some good points! Hard to argue with you man, but I'm gonna keep going...