MGS4:Guns of the Patriot (E3 06) **SPOILERS**

[Vic Viper]

as many of you already know Kojima will show a new trailer at E3

i found an this audio, the first 90 seconds of the MGS4 trailer posted from his podcast. :lick:

http://www.blog.konami.jp/gs/img/the_report/the_report_015.mp3

translation :

Snake: War has changed.

Snake: Our time has ended.

Snake: Our war is over.

Campbell: Since the Manhattan incident, restrictions on military intervention in foreign countries have eased, fueling demand for mercenaries.

Campbell: Today, the world's wars depend largely on PMCs, private military companies whose business includes supplying these mercenaries.

Campbell: PMCs have become a serious threat to the world.

Snake: The U.S. has exported too much of its military power. Now she's paying the price.

Campbell: In total, they've got enough manpower to rival the U.S. military.

Campbell: Based on our investigation, the five largest PMCs are run by a dummy corporation, which acts as a single mother company.

Snake: And the mother company...?

Campbell: Outer Heaven.

Snake: The one world in which soldiers will always have a place....


:arrr:

[kupoartist]

Just been watching the Sony conference... enduring more like. MGS4 came on.

OH.... MY... GOD

I want this game :O

The single most awesome thing?Raiden Ninja?!?!!?

ZOMG :P

[Vic Viper]

that was the only good thing to a disappointing sony conference.

i pretty much shit myself after they showed the trailer. my god, kojima wasnt lying when he said he'll make Raiden cool. jesus, all the stunts he did slicing up all those Gears, freaking insane. its good to see the old cast back, Meryl, Naomi, Campbell,and Liquid Ocelot. and the ending of the trailer was pretty shocking Snake pointing a gun in his mouth. :shock: :shock:

** heres the direct feed, better quality trailer ** (http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=10421&type=wmv&pl=game)


oh, the FULL 10 minute trailer will be shown tomorrow. cant wait for that. :lick:

[merylsilverburg]

Oh my god...that was amazing...and holy, holy crap I honestly couldn't believe that was Raiden...I actually went back to the part again just to reconfirm it...I mean, c'mon from MGS2 to this? Unbelievable! He is pretty badass and I think it was a good thing that Raiden becomes the "Ninja" for the game. Also, my blood went cold when I saw Snake point the gun to his mouth...I really didn't expect this for some reason...

Please Vic, have a link to the 10 minute trailer tomorrow, okay? O_O;;;

[Beretta55]

I was watching the Sony conference and merely 10 minutes before the MGS4 trailer (or so my buddy who I was talking to at the time told me.) the video feed that was playing on game spot went DEAD. I'm dead serious the video up and died on me and I missed the full trailer, I was EXTREMELY pissed. Later somebody hosted a cam version at the show floor (was a bit shaky) on youtube the quality was meh but it still showed it all. That video was awesome it melted my face. :laugh:

I always liked Raiden and didn't mind him in MGS2, this just makes him even more badass. It was an awesome video, I can't wait to see the full trailer tomorrow, should be great.

[kupoartist]

I was watching the Sony conference and merely 10 minutes before the MGS4 trailer (or so my buddy who I was talking to at the time told me.) the video feed that was playing on game spot went DEAD. I'm dead serious the video up and died on me and I missed the full trailer, I was EXTREMELY pissed.
That happened to me and everyone else watching it AFAIK. You had to reload it via the website to get it working again. Frankly, it wasn't a heart stopper because it had been on that long and not been all that interesting!

[merylsilverburg]

I've been watching it again and again and now that I'm past the whole awe of the video, now it's time for me to calmly assess it.

Yes, the trailer was badass, but after watching it several times, there's something inherently sad about it. Part of the sadness could be the music, the woman vocalizing, but most of the part is seeing each of the characters appear with the effects of their name, their kanji/Chinese character representation (which reminds me of those honorable and patriotic Japanese films), the rain blotches, and then the characters themselves. Seeing how much everyone has changed, but not for the better particularly...because you can see the weariness in their faces and the eyes...especially Naomi's and Otacon's...my god, Naomi has gotten so old and looking at Otacon's eyes made my heart sink to my stomach...because he just had such an expression that I can't explain. And as for Raiden, again yes, he was pretty darn cool and seeing how much he's "grown up" makes me really happy...but again, there's something very sad about him now seeing him this way...his eyes seems emotionless and has lost that "innocence" of MGS2 and like Otacon, my heart sank when he said "My turn to protect you Snake". I'm not complaining though. EDIT: Also, I wonder if Raiden's Japanese name meaning (thunder/lighting) will come into play in the game? Perhaps his force and his aura will emit the strength of thunder?

But I think what really gets to me about this trailer is: everyone has grown up. The themes of youth and innocence, both has died. The past games, even though they were quite dramatic, there was always something...something "fun" about it and something innocent...but now, there's no traces of that whatsoever and I feel this final game, especially since you can clearly see their expressions, will be quite powerful even moreso than MGS2 and 3. I look forward to this game so much and I want it now...yet, I dread it at the same time because I don't know if my heart can take it.

[kupoartist]

I've been watching it again and again and now that I'm past the whole awe of the video, now it's time for me to calmly assess it.

Yes, the trailer was badass, but after watching it several times, there's something inherently sad about it. Part of the sadness could be the music, the woman vocalizing, but most of the part is seeing each of the characters appear with the effects of their name, their kanji/Chinese character representation (which reminds me of those honorable and patriotic Japanese films), the rain blotches, and then the characters themselves. Seeing how much everyone has changed, but not for the better particularly...because you can see the weariness in their faces and the eyes...especially Naomi's and Otacon's...my god, Naomi has gotten so old and looking at Otacon's eyes made my heart sink to my stomach...because he just had such an expression that I can't explain. And as for Raiden, again yes, he was pretty darn cool and seeing how much he's "grown up" makes me really happy...but again, there's something very sad about him now seeing him this way...his eyes seems emotionless and has lost that "innocence" of MGS2 and like Otacon, my heart sank when he said "My turn to protect you Snake". I'm not complaining though. EDIT: Also, I wonder if Raiden's Japanese name meaning (thunder/lighting) will come into play in the game? Perhaps his force and his aura will emit the strength of thunder?

But I think what really gets to me about this trailer is: everyone has grown up. The themes of youth and innocence, both has died. The past games, even though they were quite dramatic, there was always something...something "fun" about it and something innocent...but now, there's no traces of that whatsoever and I feel this final game, especially since you can clearly see their expressions, will be quite powerful even moreso than MGS2 and 3. I look forward to this game so much and I want it now...yet, I dread it at the same time because I don't know if my heart can take it.
I feel all of the above, minus the hint of negativity. I'm loving the prospect because of the very things which you fear will make it hard to love. That last scene in the trailer is just... wow. So simply, so sad and so shocking. Playing the rest of the series and then playing this is going to be like... I don't know... like it's 1988 and you go to a Tokyo cinema and watch the double bill of Totoro with Grave of the Fireflies. Harrowing, but awesome stuff.

Minor technically of me not being interested in a single other game or aspect of the PS3 mind you... I guess I just have to pray for a PC release...

[merylsilverburg]

I feel all of the above, minus the hint of negativity. I'm loving the prospect because of the very things which you fear will make it hard to love.

Ah, I didn't mean to come off as negative when I was assessing the trailer/outcome of the game. Okay, I can see why you'd say that, but it wasn't my intention at all. :laugh: I was simply expressing my sadness towards the whole "finality" feel of the game and the fact that many of the characters have grown up and/or matured which lends to the "finality" feel; they each discovered their purpose/place in the life and now there's no more of the innocence...it's almost like watching your friends and favorite people grow up and knowing that lives have changed and things will move on. It's just sad, that's all. And I never said I won't love the game for all the things I feared; the darker and more mature feel of the game is spectacular, so what's not to like? But it could be perhaps that I will end up loving this game the most, which is why I dread it. Because watching the trailer and being entranced by its beauty, there's a sense of doom in me that lingers well after the trailer is over...and I never usually feel this way for anything dramatic unless it's something that I really love.

Minor technically of me not being interested in a single other game or aspect of the PS3 mind you... I guess I just have to pray for a PC release...

*Sigh* I'm such a sucker for MGS that I'd probably be willing to buy the PS3 early just to assure that I have one to play the game. Not that I'm too happy about it considering the price...*grumble, grumble*

[Vic Viper]

the full trailer wasnt shown today, they're saying Wednesday, 11am PT.

[Harry]

I agree with what kupoartist and meryl have said here; I am absolutely excited about this game exactly for the reasons causing Meryl's fears. There is a great sense of finality in the trailer, a finality that reminds me a bit of Spielberg's Munich - some scenes of the trailer seem even to use the same image composition seen in some key scenes in Munich, and even the soundtrack reminded me the one written by John Williams for Spielberg's work. The sense of finality in this trailer is something that was also behind the MGS3 storyline. What I like the most about all the latest Metal Gear Solid games is how they actually speak of the present, of what is happening to the world right now.

It's surprising that Kojima is the only creator of a game series on warfare actually criticizing with such an incredible strength the U.S. way of using war (obviously shared by some of the most powerful countries in the world), trying to unravel the meaning of war in moder times; he is the only one truly speaking about the fact that soldiers (and civilians) are just tools in the hands of the governments. War is created for political and economical reasons, with the latter aspect becoming increasingly important; enemies are and will always be only enemies in relative terms, monsters fed to the public to create fear and ignorance. MGS3, but also MGS2, basically showed how heroes can become the bad guys, and vice versa, just because of political reasons that have nothing to do with morality. References to the Iraq war in MGS3 were amazing, something no other game has ever done before.

To me, it seems the sense of "finality" of this game is also caused by the fact Kojima is becoming more and more realistic (the advanced technologies used in his games are just a way to make them cooler and to hide the fact they are actually speaking of our present time) and more and more disillusioned, without ever abandoning hope. MGS games are unique because they talk about responsibility of the individual, about necessary moral choices that nowadays we have the tendency to avoid. That's what the shocking final bit of the first trailer is all about, in my opinion - moral choices must be made, if we want to give a better future to future generations, but also if we want to save our own soul.

Is Kojima becoming more and more militant? Even the strange artworks of the new MGS website seem to hint at this, and ho, ho, ho, I love it!

P.S. You can find a streaming version of the trailer on http://www.konami.jp/kojima_pro/e3_2006/

[merylsilverburg]

I agree with what kupoartist and meryl have said here; I am absolutely excited about this game exactly for the reasons causing Meryl's fears.

Hm...can sadness and fear really be linked together? Because I only said I was saddened by what I saw in the trailer, not fear....perhaps it was my bad way of explaining that's causing all this confusion? :P

Oh, and I forgot to mention this in my eariler post, but another thing that makes me sad for Snake is his opening dialogue...when he is describing how war has changed and war is now routine...this, to me, makes me depressed for him because Snake, as a soldier who only knows fighting and war, seeing that war is now controlled where there is no freewill and personal belief/moral of right and wrong, this may be the worst and most saddening thing for Snake, IMO.

P.S. You can find a streaming version of the trailer on http://www.konami.jp/kojima_pro/e3_2006/

It wasn't exactly "streaming" on my behalf, so I had to find the trailer somewhere else. :P But, after watching it (which also was amazing) there's a lot of things I want to say:

- That Kojima. What a kidder. The tagline of "No place to hide" I actually took literally...but he meant it technically and literally (also, if you check out the screenshots on the website, the label on the box actually says "No place for Hideo", lol). The fact that Snake can camouflage himself using his new advanced suit poses a lot of questions. Such as: can he use this ability as many times as he wants? If there is a limit, would it be indicated by a bar or something else? How would it work...would it be almost like MGS3, where you go to the menu to "blend in" then back to realtime? What type of backgrounds or patterns would he be able to camouflage in with...are there specific ones he can or cannot do? From the trailer, it seems he has the ability to mesh with whatever pattern is near him (the watermelon). Would this make the game harder or easier?

- I have somewhat a crazy, crazy theory that I wonder if Kojima would do. He does like a lot of plot twists and all, so I only wonder (please don't take what I say literally, it's only a crazy theory): What if the old man we see as Snake really isn't Snake, but Big Boss? I don't know how but I mean, in Kojima's world, it could be possible. :laugh: The only reason why I say this is because of the preliminary character sketches...there was a young Snake and then an old man with the eyepatch...which we all presumed was Big Boss. If the old man with the eyepatch is really Solid Snake, then why did they bother drawing up the younger Snake? Also, who was Snake visiting in the graveyard? From the flowers seen around, it looked possible it could've been The Boss' grave...but is that possible?

- Seeing the new trailer, it seems that the little robot Mark II or whatever, isn't going to be in the game. Unless it is, but I honestly don't see how it can be helpful to Snake, especially in such a hectic battlefield. And speaking of the battlefield, I wonder if the game would feature such a hazardous enviroment, filled with soldiers and civilians? This would make the game much more different than the previous games, which involved a lot of stealth and sneaking around enemies. I wonder if this would be better or worse?

- The new Metal Gears look really challenging. I wonder if they'll be able to emit certain sounds...because from the trailer, one of them sounded like...well, a goat. :right: And the other, I think, made a little tsk, tsk noise to alert Snake.

Okay, sorry for the long post, but those are the only questions/things I have to say for now. I had more, but I have to watch the trailer again. :D

[Harry]

I edited the title to include a spoiler alert, just so that we can post here without having to always use the spoiler tag - what's the point of discussing about the trailer if we cannot talk about what we saw in it?

Also, yhere is this tool that can help anyone download streaming movies onto their HDD before watching them; it's freeware, and free of spyware or other strange things -> http://sdp.ppona.com/ ; you can even give it the URL of a normal webpage and it will try to list all possible feeds in the page. It can be very useful when servers are busy or videos are in high resolution.

I really thought the same thing about Big Boss coming back in this game, especially after I noticed that in the ending scene Snake seems an entirely different person, and he even seems to have a scar on his right eye. Anyhow, in the second trailer, it is clearly said that his body is decaying at an alarming speed - is it possible the ending scene of the trailer is simply one of the ending scenes of the game?

In any case, the theory of Big Boss coming back in this game isn't far fetched. At the end of Metal Gear Solid 2 it was clear that Liquid Snake (Liquid Ocelot?) was not the bad guy. In the official website of Kojima Productions (http://www.konami.jp/kojima_pro/e3_2006/), in the MGS4 section, it is stated that Snake will have to face his "life-long enemy", and this is definitely Big Boss, not Liquid. Also, in the second trailer, Otacon says something like "You never stood a chance. He can't be beat" - is it possible this "He" refers "just" to Liquid? I don't think so. I really think there are more chances that Liquid and Snake will join their forces somewhere during this game against a common enemy...

About that grave - a grave without a name could indeed be the Boss' grave, but also Solidus' grave. In Metal Gear Solid 2, Solidus had a tragic fate not different from the one of the Boss in MGS 3.

Do you think the bipedal robots in the trailer are Metal Gears? They indeed seem very dangerous (the way they move their legs is scary), but I thought they were just war machines for combat on the battlefield.

P.S. I just quoted your last post when I used the word "fears" ("I never said I won't love the game for all the things I feared) , I understand perfectly your feelings about the game.

[merylsilverburg]

Also, yhere is this tool that can help anyone download streaming movies onto their HDD before watching them; it's freeware, and free of spyware or other strange things -> http://sdp.ppona.com/ ; you can even give it the URL of a normal webpage and it will try to list all possible feeds in the page. It can be very useful when servers are busy or videos are in high resolution.

Mega thanks, Harry, for this. It's such a life saver, I was able to watch the trailer with no problems now. :cool:

I really thought the same thing about Big Boss coming back in this game, especially after I noticed that in the ending scene Snake seems an entirely different person, and he even seems to have a scar on his right eye. Anyhow, in the second trailer, it is clearly said that his body is decaying at an alarming speed - is it possible the ending scene of the trailer is simply one of the ending scenes of the game?

I read a theory that Snake at the end of the trailer (if it really is him) could possibly be controlled by the nanomachines in his suit...which might explain why Snake's actions/thinking is a bit different. I personally don't like the idea of multiple endings, if this is the case. The reason why is because you don't know which one is the "real" ending...I know Kojima did something like this with MGS, but when Snake saved Meryl, it was assumed Otacon got out somehow. But, since this is supposed to be the final game, it would be annoying to receive no complete, final ending to finish it all. It was pretty painful to find out that Snake's body is decaying so quickly, but what if this was Big Boss and it's his body that's decaying rapidly? I mean, if they brought Big Boss back to life, he is supposed to be dead to begin with, hehe. :right: Also, another thing I thought of at the end of the trailer: when Snake's voice over said "Some legends are meant to die, some bloodlines must come to an end" what if the "legend" meant to die isn't Snake, but Big Boss? He is the original legend/perfect soldier, after all. And the bloodline that must end could be Big Boss' original bloodline (his own).

In any case, the theory of Big Boss coming back in this game isn't far fetched. At the end of Metal Gear Solid 2 it was clear that Liquid Snake (Liquid Ocelot?) was not the bad guy. In the official website of Kojima Productions (http://www.konami.jp/kojima_pro/e3_2006/), in the MGS4 section, it is stated that Snake will have to face his "life-long enemy", and this is definitely Big Boss, not Liquid. Also, in the second trailer, Otacon says something like "You never stood a chance. He can't be beat" - is it possible this "He" refers "just" to Liquid? I don't think so. I really think there are more chances that Liquid and Snake will join their forces somewhere during this game against a common enemy...

That's true, Big Boss really is Snake's lifelong enemy. And Campbell did say "No one else can stop him" which can refer to Big Boss, especially with the whole Outer Heaven plan in MG2 and MGS4. But what if Otacon and Campbell are referring to Ocelot? Again, kinda bizarre but since Ocelot's arm is attached to Liquid and in MGS2 we did see that Ocelot was controlling Liquid, it's possible that Ocelot is really "regenerating" himself onto Liquid...like a parasite taking over the host's body. Plus, "Liquid Snake" is really beginning to look more like Ocelot than himself, poor guy. What if Ocelot is the main enemy, since he is an agent of The Patriots and he's been in all the games? Or perhaps him and Big Boss are in this together, who knows?

About that grave - a grave without a name could indeed be the Boss' grave, but also Solidus' grave. In Metal Gear Solid 2, Solidus had a tragic fate not different from the one of the Boss in MGS 3.

Hehe, I thought about Solidus a few hours after my original post. Yeah, the grave is probably Solidus' not The Boss because it'd make more sense. ^^;;

Do you think the bipedal robots in the trailer are Metal Gears? They indeed seem very dangerous (the way they move their legs is scary), but I thought they were just war machines for combat on the battlefield.

The legs in general are scary...dinosaur-like legs supporting a machine body? Very disturbing indeed. You're probably right though...I just thought they were Metal Gears because they seemed so capable...maybe they're protype Metal Gears? Or perhaps they're baby Metal Gears?

I rewatched the trailer and there was something that was bothering me from the first time I saw the original short one. This may or may not produce a whole new set of theories: when Liquid Ocelot (that sounds so weird, lol) said "It was you who killed Abel and was cast out by Eve. You killed your own flesh and blood. What's next?" Okay, if Solidus represents Abel and Snake represents Cain (according to the story that I looked up on Wikipedia) then who is Eve?

Finally, let's say if Snake commits suicide at the end...I wonder if we'll play as Raiden to finish the final boss, kinda like in "Legacy of Kain: Defiance"? Kojima said we wouldn't play as Raiden, but why would he say "My turn to protect you Snake" if he wasn't going to really partake in the action?

One last thing: I saw on Wikipedia a theory that the game might come out 7/7/07 due to the oddly-shaped 'L' and '4' in the title's logo. This would commemorate the anniversary of MG which was released 7/7/87. :cool:

P.S. I just quoted your last post when I used the word "fears" ("I never said I won't love the game for all the things I feared) , I understand perfectly your feelings about the game.

Oh sorry, when I said that I originally meant to quote kupo when he thought that my feelings for the game had a bit of fear. I meant to tell him that I wasn't fearing the elements of the game at all. Sorry again. :P

[kupoartist]

Finally, let's say if Snake commits suicide at the end...
Perhaps he will, but he wouldn't do it by shooting himself. Though drammatically effective in the trailer, it's immensely non-sensical. Snake's wish is to destroy his genetic material, but how is that to be achieved through getting shot? Big Boss before him died but his genetics are what caused the whole modern Era of MGS. If Snake wanted to wipe out his genetic material, he'd have to destroy himself Terminator / Ripley style. For that very reason, I don't think he will actually commit suicide. It'd either be nonsensical or too cliched.

[Harry]

You are welcome Meryl! I could have never downloaded the movie without that!

I read a theory that Snake at the end of the trailer (if it really is him) could possibly be controlled by the nanomachines in his suit...which might explain why Snake's actions/thinking is a bit different. I personally don't like the idea of multiple endings, if this is the case. The reason why is because you don't know which one is the "real" ending...I know Kojima did something like this with MGS, but when Snake saved Meryl, it was assumed Otacon got out somehow. But, since this is supposed to be the final game, it would be annoying to receive no complete, final ending to finish it all. It was pretty painful to find out that Snake's body is decaying so quickly, but what if this was Big Boss and it's his body that's decaying rapidly? I mean, if they brought Big Boss back to life, he is supposed to be dead to begin with, hehe. Also, another thing I thought of at the end of the trailer: when Snake's voice over said "Some legends are meant to die, some bloodlines must come to an end" what if the "legend" meant to die isn't Snake, but Big Boss? He is the original legend/perfect soldier, after all. And the bloodline that must end could be Big Boss' original bloodline (his own).

I would hate if Snake was actually controlled by nanomachines! I also do not like the idea of multiple endings, especially in storyline-based games like Metal Gear Solid. The idea of Big Boss being back in this game is fascinating, and it would justify all the efforts done by Kojima to tell Big Boss story from a different point of view in MGS 3 and the new PSP game, MGS: Portable Ops (which is part of the MGS canon, according to Kojima). This said, I believe that when Snake speaks about the need of ending his bloodline he refers to himself, but also to Liquid and anybody else with Big Boss' DNA. But correct me if I am wrong - weren't Genome Soldiers "enhanced" with Big Boss' genes? Doesn't this mean that even if Solid killed himself and Liquid Ocelot, his efforts would be pointless? What is this really all about?


That's true, Big Boss really is Snake's lifelong enemy. And Campbell did say "No one else can stop him" which can refer to Big Boss, especially with the whole Outer Heaven plan in MG2 and MGS4. But what if Otacon and Campbell are referring to Ocelot? Again, kinda bizarre but since Ocelot's arm is attached to Liquid and in MGS2 we did see that Ocelot was controlling Liquid, it's possible that Ocelot is really "regenerating" himself onto Liquid...like a parasite taking over the host's body. Plus, "Liquid Snake" is really beginning to look more like Ocelot than himself, poor guy. What if Ocelot is the main enemy, since he is an agent of The Patriots and he's been in all the games? Or perhaps him and Big Boss are in this together, who knows?

Indeed, Revolver Ocelot is the only true bad guy of the series, and he could definitely be Snake's main enemy in this game. The idea of Ocelot regenerating himself through Liquid's body, and not vice versa, is nice. I just hope Kojima will explain better the whole arm thing (how on earth can an arm contain traces of someone's memory?), even though Ocelot's possession can be partially justified by the psychic skills he may have inherited from his father, the Sorrow. Also, do you know if there are some theories to explain why Ocelot was able to jump like a Ninja on board of the Metal Gear in the end of MGS2?

Maybe we must wait for the new MGS: Portable Ops to know a bit more about it, or maybe it's just that I honestly do not know a lot of things about the series' storyline. In any case, Revolver Ocelot has always sided with the Philosophers/Patriots, and the Patriots are those that really control the economy and politics of Western countries, including the U.S., in MGS - so they were basically behind Snake's infiltration in Outer Heaven, and this makes them Big Boss' sworn enemies. They took Big Boss' genetic material when he was in a coma, from what I read in Wikipedia (was this explained in MGS?), obviously without his permission. So, if Big Boss is actually on Revolver Ocelot's side in this game, he could be an unknowing tool in the hands of Ocelot and the Patriots, like Solidus in MGS2.

The legs in general are scary...dinosaur-like legs supporting a machine body? Very disturbing indeed. You're probably right though...I just thought they were Metal Gears because they seemed so capable...maybe they're protype Metal Gears? Or perhaps they're baby Metal Gears?

I rewatched the trailer and there was something that was bothering me from the first time I saw the original short one. This may or may not produce a whole new set of theories: when Liquid Ocelot (that sounds so weird, lol) said "It was you who killed Abel and was cast out by Eve. You killed your own flesh and blood. What's next?" Okay, if Solidus represents Abel and Snake represents Cain (according to the story that I looked up on Wikipedia) then who is Eve?

Finally, let's say if Snake commits suicide at the end...I wonder if we'll play as Raiden to finish the final boss, kinda like in "Legacy of Kain: Defiance"? Kojima said we wouldn't play as Raiden, but why would he say "My turn to protect you Snake" if he wasn't going to really partake in the action?

One last thing: I saw on Wikipedia a theory that the game might come out 7/7/07 due to the oddly-shaped 'L' and '4' in the title's logo. This would commemorate the anniversary of MG which was released 7/7/87

I really did not understand the whole Abel and Cain reference. Abel and Cain were brothers, so Liquid Ocelot must indeed be talking to Solid Snake in that scene, referring to the fact he killed either Solidus or Liquid. But if Solid Snake is Cain (who was cursed by God, forced to wander earth with the constant fear of being killed - a man constantly at war?) and Liquid/Solidus are Abel, who is Eve? It could be a person, or even an organization that generated them or from where they all come from, in a sense or in another. This somebody could be Big Boss, or in general Outher Heaven, called "mother company" in the trailer. Solid sided with the United States in the past and killed with his hands his own brother (Liquid); thus he is banished from the only land where all soldiers can find their place, the great mother, the Eve of all soldiers - Outer Heaven.

But if the Ocelot talking in the trailer is actually Revolver Ocelot, Eve could even refer to the Patriots and Les Enfants Terribles project.

Perhaps he will, but he wouldn't do it by shooting himself. Though drammatically effective in the trailer, it's immensely non-sensical. Snake's wish is to destroy his genetic material, but how is that to be achieved through getting shot?

You are absolutely right kupo... a suicide would achieve nothing - it's indeed a really strange scene, yet it is given such a big meaning in the trailer that it's hard to believe it is just a trick played by Kojima on us. Oh I like speculations about Metal Gear Solid games!

[merylsilverburg]

Perhaps he will, but he wouldn't do it by shooting himself. Though drammatically effective in the trailer, it's immensely non-sensical. Snake's wish is to destroy his genetic material, but how is that to be achieved through getting shot? Big Boss before him died but his genetics are what caused the whole modern Era of MGS. If Snake wanted to wipe out his genetic material, he'd have to destroy himself Terminator / Ripley style. For that very reason, I don't think he will actually commit suicide. It'd either be nonsensical or too cliched.

Oh, when I said if Snake has to commit suicide at the end, I meant at the end of the game, not in the trailer. :right: Even if Snake wipes himself out Terminator-style, it's still a suicide. I'm pretty sure Kojima wouldn't do something so ridiculously boring to have Snake shoot himself in the head or anything else too cliche...unless, being the way he is, he decides on the most insanely simple death for Snake, like an explosion or something. :sarcasm: I wouldn't be surprised if Kojima did this since he knows we're expecting an epic and heroic death for a legend like Snake.

I would hate if Snake was actually controlled by nanomachines! I also do not like the idea of multiple endings, especially in storyline-based games like Metal Gear Solid. The idea of Big Boss being back in this game is fascinating, and it would justify all the efforts done by Kojima to tell Big Boss story from a different point of view in MGS 3 and the new PSP game, MGS: Portable Ops (which is part of the MGS canon, according to Kojima). This said, I believe that when Snake speaks about the need of ending his bloodline he refers to himself, but also to Liquid and anybody else with Big Boss' DNA. But correct me if I am wrong - weren't Genome Soldiers "enhanced" with Big Boss' genes? Doesn't this mean that even if Solid killed himself and Liquid Ocelot, his efforts would be pointless? What is this really all about?

I'm actually kinda upset about the PSP game because I don't know when or if I'll buy a PSP, so if I don't buy one, I'll end up missing a good chunk of the storyline and history. :( I do agree with you though, that there must've been a reason why Kojima decided to emphasize so heavily on Big Boss' story in MGS3. As for the Genome soldiers, I honestly have no idea about this...unless the enhancement was a extremely small percentage and would eventually wear off through time? Unlike Snake, Liquid, and Solidus who were exact clones of Big Boss, these soldiers are still their bodily selves, but was only provided with a little support - kinda like steroids for athletes.

Indeed, Revolver Ocelot is the only true bad guy of the series, and he could definitely be Snake's main enemy in this game. The idea of Ocelot regenerating himself through Liquid's body, and not vice versa, is nice. I just hope Kojima will explain better the whole arm thing (how on earth can an arm contain traces of someone's memory?), even though Ocelot's possession can be partially justified by the psychic skills he may have inherited from his father, the Sorrow. Also, do you know if there are some theories to explain why Ocelot was able to jump like a Ninja on board of the Metal Gear in the end of MGS2?

Maybe we must wait for the new MGS: Portable Ops to know a bit more about, or maybe it's just that I honestly do not know a lot of things about the series' storyline. In any case, Revolver Ocelot has always sided with the Philosophers/Patriots, and the Patriots are those that really control the economy and politics of Western countries, including the U.S. in MGS - so they were basically behind Snake's infiltration in Outer Heaven, and they were Big Boss' sworn enemies. They took Big Boss' genetic material when he was in a coma, from what I read in Wikipedia (was this explained in MGS?), obviously without his permission. So, if Big Boss is actually on Revolver Ocelot's side in this game, he could be an unknowing tool in the hands of Ocelot and the Patriots, like Solidus in MGS2.

I just realized I made a major, major mistake and I think I messed everyone up. :shame: It's actually Liquid's arm onto Ocelot's body...I mean, I don't know why I didn't realize this sooner, after all, how can Ocelot really die? *slaps self on head* Okay, so this throws all the theories out of the water because if it's actually Liquid who is controlling Ocelot through his arm, then that does make Liquid the main enemy, right? Sorry about this, guys. As for Ocelot jumping like a Ninja into the Metal Gear, I've read no theories about that. But perhaps, since Liquid is actually the perfect clone of Big Boss, maybe his arm is, uh, super-enhanced which can control Ocelot and make him super-human? ^^;;;

I wonder if Big Boss did sided with Revolver Ocelot, would he really not know if he was being played a pawn again? He already went through this in MGS3, so how could he make the same mistake again? And this would go against all that he was fighting for in MG and MG2, right? I don't think it was explained in MGS that Big Boss was in a coma when they took his genetic DNA...I could've sworn they said "remains of Big Boss." From other things I've read, I thought Big Boss willingly allowed his DNA to be cloned.

I really did not understand the whole Abel and Cain reference. Abel and Cain were brothers, so Liquid Ocelot must indeed be talking to Solid Snake in that scene, referring to the fact he killed either Solidus or Liquid himself. But if Solid Snake is Cain (who was cursed by God, forced to wander earth with the constant fear of being killed - a man constantly at war?) and Liquid/Solidus are Abel, who is Eve? It could be a person, or even an organization that generated them or from where they all come from, in a sense or in another. This somebody could be Big Boss, or in general Outher Heaven, called "mother company" in the trailer. Solid sided with the United States in the past and killed with his hands his own brother (Liquid); thus he is banished from the only land where all soldiers can find their place, the great mother, the Eve of all soldiers - Outer Heaven.

But if the Ocelot talking in the trailer is actually Revolver Ocelot, Eve could even refer to the Patriots and Les Enfants Terribles project.

I really like your theory about Eve being an organization or the mother company. This could be very possible. I am a little curious about the whole biblical references in the games...no so much in MGS and MGS2, but particularly in MGS3 and now, 4. The whole Eva thing and it was she who "tricked the Snake" instead of the way it was told in the Genesis. I wonder if Eva and Eve are referenced to each other somehow? If so, how would this work in the storyline?

All this talking about MGS4 is really great...I miss these sort of discussions. :D

[Harry]

All this talking about MGS4 is really great...I miss these sort of discussions.

Ah... same here! The trailers reminded me of the time we launched Ps2Fantasy.com, many many years ago!

About the PSP game, I can understand you. Anyhow, there could be another PSP price cut before November. The game will have a complete single player campaign with a storyline part of the MGS canon, but I am not too excited about the digital graphic novel style they will use to portray the story (which you can see in the trailer of the game). This is obviously to cut development costs, and probably the choice will be more effective than I can imagine, but MGS doesn't feel like MGS without the extraordinary cinematic sequences.

You are right, an analysis of the biblical references in the latest games could be interesting!

[kupoartist]

is there not the outside chance that the PSP title could be ported elsewhere? Aren't Rockstar porting PSP Liberty City Stories to PS2 or something like that? Could be insanely easy and cost-effective to do after the PSP release has done its bit for the handheld's sales, especially if the engine it's running is identical or at least part similar to Snake Eater's.

[merylsilverburg]

About the PSP game, I can understand you. Anyhow, there could be another PSP price cut before November. The game will have a complete single player campaign with a storyline part of the MGS canon, but I am not too excited about the digital graphic novel style they will use to portray the story (which you can see in the trailer of the game). This is obviously to cut development costs, and probably the choice will be more effective than I can imagine, but MGS doesn't feel like MGS without the extraordinary cinematic sequences.

The digital graphic storytelling might also be a part of the new Konami PSP comics-theme. I remember reading somewhere that Konami is planning to release a retelling of MGS and Silent Hill as comic books for the PSP. Whether this is successful or not, time will only tell. But I agree about the cinematics...these are one of the most important elements of the series.

EDIT: is there not the outside chance that the PSP title could be ported elsewhere? Aren't Rockstar porting PSP Liberty City Stories to PS2 or something like that? Could be insanely easy and cost-effective to do after the PSP release has done its bit for the handheld's sales, especially if the engine it's running is identical or at least part similar to Snake Eater's.

I was thinking the same thing too because it would be really nice for us non-PSP owners. I wanted to play the Liberty City stories but I didn't want to get a PSP, so I was pretty happy when I heard it was going to be ported to the PS2. :D It'll be nice if they did the same for MGS. EDIT 2: Also, I heard playing stealth-like games for the PSP is like going through hell. Apparently, the Splinter Cell game for it was so awful that it couldn't even be qualified as a "game." I really wouldn't want something like this to happen for the MGS: Portable Ops.

[Harry]

A port to the PS2 is highly possible, in my opinion, especially if it was planned from the beginning of the project. The game graphics are really close to those of the latest MGS games for PS2, but some changes (like different textures) would be needed to let the game run at higher resolution than the one in the PSP version.

Splinter Cell for the PSP was awful because developers and publisher didn't take the project too seriously, in my opinion. Lack of 2 analog sticks on the PSP could be an issue, but it can be addressed in many ways.

[merylsilverburg]

A port to the PS2 is highly possible, in my opinion, especially if it was planned from the beginning of the project. The game graphics are really close to those of the latest MGS games for PS2, but some changes (like different textures) would be needed to let the game run at higher resolution than the one in the PSP version.

Splinter Cell for the PSP was awful because developers and publisher didn't take the project too seriously, in my opinion. Lack of 2 analog sticks on the PSP could be an issue, but it can be addressed in many ways.

That's good news if it comes true. If not, I'll just have to pick up a PSP then...with the price drop, it shouldn't be too bad.

This is slightly off-topic, but Kojima Productions have already planned to release the MGS4 Solid Snake action figure to be released this November(!). Check it out here (http://www.konami.jp/kojima_pro/english/index.html). Click on the MGS series and go to "GOODS" next to MGS4. Read the description too...very funny. :laugh: I must get this figure, I must!

[Harry]

It looks awesome!

Kojima confirmed on Famitsu that MGS4 will be the ending chapter of the series, and that Portable Ops will be one of the seven games narrating the MG canonic storyline (Metal Gear, Metal Gear 2, MGS 1-4 + special ops); this explains the seven in the title, but also what Meryl pointed out - about a possible 7/7/2007 release date to celebrate the 20th anniversary since the launch of the first Metal Gear - is interesting and hardly a coincidence.

[Qjij_jijQ]

I JuSt foUNd ThE trAiLEr fOR Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops...
HAve a LOoK 4 yOUrsELveS, iT SeeMS qUiTE iNteREStiNG:


Edit by Harry: Link removed; the link is from Konami servers, but the website just linked directly to the stream. Since Konami asked us not to link directly to their streams, please follow the link (http://www.konami.jp/kojima_pro/e3_2006/) and enter the MPO section, already available in the news we posted about the game.

[Vic Viper]

I JuSt foUNd ThE trAiLEr fOR Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops...
HAve a LOoK 4 yOUrsELveS, iT SeeMS qUiTE iNteREStiNG:


Edit by Harry: Link removed; the link is from Konami servers, but the website just linked directly to the stream. Since Konami asked us not to link directly to their streams, please follow the link (http://www.konami.jp/kojima_pro/e3_2006/) and enter the MPO section, already available in the news we posted about the game.

i know it looks great, almost looks like a PS2 game. im very happy they finaly made a "TRUE" mgs game on PSP and the story being part of the main canon is the icing in the cake. we'll finally see how big boss turn to the dark side and form Outer Heave.

im definately excited about this, heck i even plan to buy that Digital Comic that Konami is releasing on the PSP. :lick:

[dan da man]

Just watched the 15 minutes trailer for MGS4, whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Best cinematic trailer i've ever seen for a game, raiden is back in style :D


http://uk.gamespot.com/ps3/adventure/metalgearsolid4/video_player.html?id=d3IwlTCs5bsMuzE

[Qjij_jijQ]

Thanks dan, I hadn't seen the 15 min version before...
God I hate how Snake looks... why not give him a "battle beard" to go with his famous "battle mullet" instead of a stupid moustache? It would've been way better ( fits the character more, IMO )

At least the rest looks good...
Never thought Snake's appearance would be the bad part of a Metal Gear game.

[merylsilverburg]

God I hate how Snake looks... why not give him a "battle beard" to go with his famous "battle mullet" instead of a stupid moustache? It would've been way better ( fits the character more, IMO )

Really? I thought the moustache looked rather dashing on him. :love: Though, granted, I think Kojima made him even older than in the '05 TGS trailer. I suppose people liked the idea of old Snake, so Kojima thought "Oh no, that's not good, they like him this way! I know! Let's make him older!" :laugh: He should've left Snake the way he was during TGS.

[kupoartist]

Crikey... Kojima should have taken advice from Yoshiyuki Tomino. Giving a popular icon a moustache is always a recipe for disaster (http://turnamanly.ytmnd.com/)

[merylsilverburg]

Crikey... Kojima should have taken advice from Yoshiyuki Tomino. Giving a popular icon a moustache is always a recipe for disaster (http://turnamanly.ytmnd.com/)

I guess you're also not a fan of the moustache. :heh: Well, it's a bit of a nice change...after all, most of the characters have changed in terms of appearance (just look at Naomi) so why not switch to a moustache? And I really cannot imagine an old Snake with a weird stubble since he doesn't have mullet hair anymore, lol.

[Carlito]

I like the moustache! I think Snake looks older in the trailer because of what you talked about in the trailer... his body is decaying, and I won't be surprised if during the game you see him getting older and older.

[Faile]

Gosh, that was an exciting trailer. It takes something really special to make excited about any game, but it achieved it. The Metal Gear storyline is just something else entirely removed from your normal games. It's incredibly special. I think few games have been as inherently post-modern and brilliant as MGS2 and 3.

[Qjij_jijQ]

Just think about it meryl...
The guy's a freakin' war veteran that doesn't care what he looks like, but he would take the time, in the middle of a war, to trim his moustache so it looks good? Nah, the real Snake wouldn't have gone with anything else than a full blown battle beard... and you know it!

[TtTackler]

This is slightly off-topic, but Kojima Productions have already planned to release the MGS4 Solid Snake action figure to be released this November(!). Check it out here (http://www.konami.jp/kojima_pro/english/index.html). Click on the MGS series and go to "GOODS" next to MGS4. Read the description too...very funny. :laugh: I must get this figure, I must!

Maybe I'm blind or they took it off the website, but I can't find a news article or a picture of the action figure. Quite upsetting. :shame:

As for the trailer, no need to extend my own thoughts on how great it looks, and most of the discussion already had. Except, as for Big Boss, on the teaser poster way back when his body was decayed and he was naked. Basically, just a drawing of his dead body. At the end of Snake's Revenge, Snake kills Big Boss by setting him on fire and leaves him to die. Shortly after the government or whoever came by and took his body to preserve it. I would assume that his remains will play a role in this story once again, as it did in the original Metal Gear Solid.

As for the grave scene, the only logical person I think it could be is Gray Fox, like a gravestone for unidentified war heros. Or maybe even Fortune or someone else that has died in MGS1 or 2. Although I'm going to stick with Gray Fox until the game comes out..

[Redpyramidhead]

So I watched the shorter version of the trailor this morning. I didn't want to experience too many spoilers so I think I will stick with just having seen that one.

Well... WOW

I mean, I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said, but I think I can officially share my expression of WOW!!!

I haven't been as up on the series as others, but after seeing that I want to go back and finish the other games in the series if I can find the time. I haven't even touched Metal Gear Solid 3 other than a demo of it. After Harry mentioned the strong messages pertaining to such things as the Iraq war in it I am downright intrigued to play MGS3 as soon as possible!

War is all part of the business of the world economy. Why not put barcodes on soldiers like a snickers bar? Scary. It's already going on and has been longer than we would care to admit.

_RED_ stuff

[Carlito]

Maybe I'm blind or they took it off the website, but I can't find a news article or a picture of the action figure. Quite upsetting. :shame:

Click on the Metal Gear Solid series link; once there, click on the "goods" button in the Metal Gear Solid 4 section of the page.

[merylsilverburg]

I won't be surprised if during the game you see him getting older and older.

This would be truly interesting and considering in MGS3 we were able to see Big Boss' change in posture/movements whenever he got injured, a progressing aging or decaying effect for Snake might possibly appear in MGS4.

Just think about it meryl...
The guy's a freakin' war veteran that doesn't care what he looks like, but he would take the time, in the middle of a war, to trim his moustache so it looks good? Nah, the real Snake wouldn't have gone with anything else than a full blown battle beard... and you know it!

Well couldn't it have been possible that Snake was sort of in "retirement" before he got picked up by Campbell to go back in the game in MGS4? Perhaps in the meantime he just wanted to sport a new look and this was the result. :D

Maybe I'm blind or they took it off the website, but I can't find a news article or a picture of the action figure. Quite upsetting. :shame:

Yeah, just do what Carlito said and you should find it. Sorry, I should've made the instructions clearer. :P

At the end of Snake's Revenge, Snake kills Big Boss by setting him on fire and leaves him to die.

Wait, but I thought Snake's Revenge was dismissed by Kojima as not being part of the storyline because Snake's Revenge was sort of like the bastard child in the canon. Am I wrong? O_O;;;

As for the grave scene, the only logical person I think it could be is Gray Fox, like a gravestone for unidentified war heros. Or maybe even Fortune or someone else that has died in MGS1 or 2. Although I'm going to stick with Gray Fox until the game comes out..

Gray Fox is also a very good possibility but I don't know about Fortune...wouldn't it seem appropriate if it were Raiden to visit her grave instead, since Snake wasn't really involved during that time? Well anyway, I think I like the idea of it being Solidus since MGS4 seems to focus on the cursed bloodline and all.

[Qjij_jijQ]

^ Anyone thinks it could be Olga's grave? ( Just a thought )

Plus, I know his moustache is from his "retired" period, but if like it was suggested, Snake gets older as the game progresses, I hope he'll eventually grow a beard and forget about that idiotic moustache.

... okay, enough pointless ranting from me.

[kupoartist]

I guess you're also not a fan of the moustache. :heh:
No No... I'm a fan of Snake's old-guy moustache just as much as I'm a fan of the Turn-A Gundam. You see, the merch-monster came a-visiting with that particular piece of contested design ingenuity :P (http://www.kupoartist.eclipse.co.uk/about/nerdcredentials/ngrade-turna-1.jpg)

[TtTackler]

[color=black]Wait, but I thought Snake's Revenge was dismissed by Kojima as not being part of the storyline because Snake's Revenge was sort of like the bastard child in the canon. Am I wrong? O_O;;;


Nope, Snake's Revenge is very much officially part of the Metal Gear saga. It was just never released anywhere other than Japan, until MGS3: Substinence that is.

And thanks to the both of you [Carlito and meryl], I totally looked over the 'goods page' like a dunce. Very cool looking, and interesting to note. He's wearing the Solid Eye on the figure, yet he wasn't wearing it in the trailer. I guess it will still be implemented in the game.

[merylsilverburg]

Nope, Snake's Revenge is very much officially part of the Metal Gear saga. It was just never released anywhere other than Japan, until MGS3: Substinence that is.

I don't doubt what you said, but I checked it out on Wikipedia just to make sure and here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake%27s_Revenge) they said it's removed from the series' canon. So I wonder what's the real deal is? :S

And thanks to the both of you [Carlito and meryl], I totally looked over the 'goods page' like a dunce. Very cool looking, and interesting to note. He's wearing the Solid Eye on the figure, yet he wasn't wearing it in the trailer. I guess it will still be implemented in the game.

Perhaps the figure is still in development so changes might occur. The last figure of Big Boss for MGS3 was supposed to have certain features/accessories, but were taken out in the end.

Anyways, I have one thing I want to discuss and that is Meryl's role in the game: Even though I'm happy she's back, being one of my favorite characters, I can't help but wonder if her role in the game will be deeper and she'll end up not being one of the "good guys." Like Harry said, we have seen heros turn into villians and vice-versa, so it could be possible that Kojima might make Meryl, well, a villain. What do you guys think her role is and do you think she'll betray anyone? I'm actually really nervous and worried about this. :shame:

[Carlito]

You are right Meryl, Snake's Revenge isn't part of the Metal Gear canonic storyline, as Kojima explained many times. In the E3 2006 Famitsu interview, Kojima said the games composing the MG canonic storyline are only seven: Metal Gear, Metal Gear 2, Metal Gear Solid, Metal Gear Solid 2, Metal Gear Solid 3, Metal Gear Solid: Special Ops, Metal Gear Solid 4.

Also, Tttackler is wrong: Snake's Revenge was NEVER released in Japan; the game was released only in North America and Europe, and was replaced by the official Metal Gear 2 in Japan.

I do not know about Meryl in this new game, I also thought about the possibility she could be one of Snake's enemies this time around. One thing I noticed is that it seems Kojima didn't show any "bad guy", with the exception of Liquid, this time around; it's strange, but it could be that he wants to unveil those that will be the game's "bosses" later, maybe at the Tokyo Game Show.

[kupoartist]

Nope, Snake's Revenge is very much officially part of the Metal Gear saga. It was just never released anywhere other than Japan, until MGS3: Substinence that is.
You're thinking about Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, not Snake's Revenge. Snake's Revenge is neither in Subsistence, nor is it a Japanese exclusive. In fact, it was a game tooled for the North American NES market by NA developers, that never saw release in Japan, not the other way round like you have suggested. As a result, Kojima doesn't adknowledge Snake's Revenge because he had no hand in making it. That and it creates a continuity errors and other mishaps, and is widely disliked.

[TtTackler]

Oi, yes, my fault. I mixed Solid Snake and Snake's Revenge. Don't mind the retard.

[Zebraman]

Anybody knows why the date at the end of the trailer says "2006", then "2008" and after that "2007"? Is there a meaning in that or is that just a joke?

[merylsilverburg]

Oi, yes, my fault. I mixed Solid Snake and Snake's Revenge. Don't mind the retard.

Don't worry, I'm just glad the facts got straightened out because I had made a reference to "Snake's Revenge" in one my reviews, believing that it's completely disregarded from the series, so I was panicking whether I made a mistake or not to use the reference! :shock: Thanks Carlito and kupo for clearing it up.

I do not know about Meryl in this new game, I also thought about the possibility she could be one of Snake's enemies this time around. One thing I noticed is that it seems Kojima didn't show any "bad guy", with the exception of Liquid, this time around; it's strange, but it could be that he wants to unveil those that will be the game's "bosses" later, maybe at the Tokyo Game Show.

Or perhaps, hopefully, Kojima knows we'll be suspecting Meryl so he'll end up making Meryl a good guy. *wishful thinking* I also was looking forward to seeing some bosses during E3, but he may reveal it at the TGS later. I wonder how many there'll be? :D

Anybody knows why the date at the end of the trailer says "2006", then "2008" and after that "2007"? Is there a meaning in that or is that just a joke?

I don't know, perhaps it was a joke to get viewers excited about the release date, such as thinking it could be '06, but it's really '08, but then it's really '07. :laugh: Or it could represent all three Snakes (Solidus, Liquid, and Solid) but how it could represent them, I don't know. :right:

[Phenom]

Hmm... Everytime I watch the scene with Snake putting that gun in his mouth, I can't help but wonder if that's going to be how it opens. You know like in some of those movies.... I.e. Fallen. You see Denzel opening up with: "Let me tell you about the time I almost died", and then at the ending they show the same scene that occurred at the beginning of the movie. I get that same feeling about this game. Snake opens with whatever words he was saying (and holding the gun to his mouth), and then we play through it, and it ends with the beginning scene. "shrugs" Don't pay me any attention.

[Qjij_jijQ]

The villains in these games is probably my favorite part... they always end up making really interesting and unique ones. I just can't wait to see the new ones they have come up with. Hopefully, they will all be as fantastic as they always are... maybe even more, since this is supposed to be the final game.

[SniperWolf]

I can hardly contain my excitement for this new game. But I couldn't believe the changes. It makes me sad as well about these changes and about other things in that trailer. This game isn't going to be the same as the last three. It seems so different. But I can't wait to play it.

[MakgSnake]

I am pretty sure you guys have seen the new 3 minute trailer, which was suppose to have the GAMEPLAY footage but didn't. Still was a pretty exciting trailer showing some crazy stuff the Mini Metal Gears can do. Simply killing those soldiers ruthlessly. Good stuff, hopefully the TGS would bring in some ACTUAL GAME Footage. Fingers Crossed.

Ps: Raiden was an amazing character from before. I always liked him, I mean he took out SOLIDUS/FATMAN/VAMP (ALMOST). In my opinion he was a great character. If the Solid Snake was the soul of Sons of Liberty then Raiden was the Heart. You take away one of them and there is something that doesn't exist anymore. The Luke of Metal Gear Saga.