PDA

View Full Version : DigiMortal's MGS3 theory


Infernal Mass
May 15th, 2003, 11:06 AM
Snake is using Old weapons and Old Technology...

check this out..


Big Boss - Official Bio -

"Acting as a mercenary for the French, Big Boss participated in the Congo Crisis of 1961, and continued fighting in Africa until the Second Congo Crisis in 1968. After these skirmishes, he offered his combat services in Asia, Africa, and the Middle and Far East. Just as the conflict in Vietnam commenced, he participated in the Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol (LRRP) as an "unofficial soldier" (or mercenary), attached to a team of Green Berets and Ranger units. His skills earned the "great mythological soldier" moniker. Once the Vietnam War ended, Big Boss took part in more than 70 missions attached to groups such as the SOG (Special Operations Group), the Wild Geese, and the Delta Force."

Big Boss was in a Ranger Unit, Snaker Eater is a term used by Special Forces such as Rangers.

Now check out the end of the trailer..snake seems to be missing an eye.

digimortal
- :ahoy: It's Big Boss

http://www.angelfire.com/games4/mgs_tea/art/MGS_bigboss.gif

Family history, education and earlier activities unknown.

Fought as mercenary throughout 1960s and early 70s. Developed reputation as "Greatest Soldier of Twentieth Century." Acquired numerous international contacts and funding sources. Reportedly recruited for missions in Asia during Second Indochina War; believed to have operated with United States Army Rangers and Special Forces.

Activities during 1980s unknown. Deployed to Middle East during Persian Gulf War, 1991. Afterward founded uncoventional warfare unit, FOX-HOUND Special Force Group, to employ hi-tech weapons and tactics. Appointed commander of said unit.

During early 1990s funded and organized international mercenary group. Said group established armed fortress known as OUTER HEAVEN. Exact origin of fortress sealed.

Attempted to gain military and political superiority with development of METAL GEAR TX-55 weapon. Mercenary-backed regime later surrended to Fox-Hound operator codenamed SOLID SNAKE.

Covertly led Zanzibar Land in nation's fight for indpendence, 1997. Obtained sensitve information involving Oilix manufacturing process during world energy crisis, 1999. Recovered secret Metal Gear D prototype from Outer Heaven in effort to gain worldwide hegemony. Employed mercenaries, including retired Fox-Hound operator GRAY FOX. All insurgent activity terminated by sympathetic forces.

Killed in action by mentioned forces. Remains recovered and currently in official custody.

mark0™
May 15th, 2003, 12:39 PM
Shit dude I think your right! Makg said something about the end of the trrailer saying 1960, 1961 etc. That would fit in... :)

Good Thinking Digi!

Infernal Mass
May 15th, 2003, 12:54 PM
i had posted this theory in an earlier thread but deleted it. i decided to post it again.

mark0™
May 15th, 2003, 12:56 PM
yeah, and Big Boss will look like Snake, obviously because Snake is Big Bosses Clone.

This is so sweet! Big Boss was somewhat of an Enigma in MGS, this will be entertaining!

Infernal Mass
May 15th, 2003, 01:04 PM
exactly, i think this is the mission where big boss loses his eye.

Azuma_Ninja
May 15th, 2003, 01:10 PM
Wow I never even thought about that. I'm guessing that's right on though.

Preventer Wind
May 15th, 2003, 03:38 PM
Yes...I must say that is the best theory I have heard. Considering Solid Snake wasn't born until the 70's it makes sense. And this right here taken from an interview with Hideo Kojima:


Gamers .com: You can interpret the reference to the '60s literally, as "the game is set in the '60s," but is that also meant to be a comment on the themes the game's meant to discuss?

Kojima: First of all, I really can't give anything away about the theme of the story -- if I do that, I'll give away a lot of the story, and that's something I obviously can't do. But the theme of the gameplay is the jungle, and in addition to that, it's espionage.

By answering this one part, I'm giving something away, but with Metal Gear Solid, I wanted to create espionage action. Since the previous two games took place in the near future, it's a sort of skewed form of espionage action. Espionage action works best in the Cold War era, so that's where we're bringing the game. That's where the sneaking mission concept works the best, in that era. Instead of having the game set in the 21st century, having it back then, when the United States and Russia were enemies and always trying to get something out of each other, and when you didn't know who were your friends and who were your foes, this is really the best time when you want to do an espionage game.


gamers .com (still a bad word :disturb:)

So if this takes place during the cold war it certainly takes place before the other Metal Gears.

dan da man
May 15th, 2003, 04:23 PM
Nice theory, you could may be right, im just trying to work it out, and this is the best solution anyone has come up with so far, nice one digi.;)
If you're right this means we play big boss?

mark0™
May 15th, 2003, 04:27 PM
Where will Metal Gear come in? Will there be a Metal Gear? Maybe this is just an opening mini-story like the Tanker Episode in MGS2... but It seems that the Jungle is the main Story... Ah I'll just have to wait to find out :(

dan da man
May 15th, 2003, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by mark0™

Where will Metal Gear come in? Will there be a Metal Gear? Maybe this is just an opening mini-story like the Tanker Episode in MGS2... but It seems that the Jungle is the main Story... Ah I'll just have to wait to find out :(


Good question, I think metal gear came in for the first game of metal gear on the NES, was that set the the 80's? snake eater might be more concentrated on what happened before the events of metal gear and big boss and the clones.

mark0™
May 15th, 2003, 04:41 PM
Yeah but If the game is called Metal Gear, there should be a Metal Gear somewhere in some way or form. Maybe it's something to do with a Prototype M'Gear or plans? But a Bi-Ped Tank sounds too advanced for the 60's... Or Maybe Metal Gear will come into another Main Story. Maybe Solid Snake will have an Episode in The Jungle.

Ever thought It was wierd that Both Big Boss and Solidus Snake both lost an eye? :ahoy: lol.

Qjij_jijQ
May 15th, 2003, 07:36 PM
Woah! I had the same thought go through my head when I saw that Snake was missing an eye in the trailer, but your additional info makes it more than likely.

There's a good chance that you're right kiddo...

MakgSnake
May 15th, 2003, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by mark0™

Where will Metal Gear come in? Will there be a Metal Gear? Maybe this is just an opening mini-story like the Tanker Episode in MGS2... but It seems that the Jungle is the main Story... Ah I'll just have to wait to find out :(
That could be a possibilty.......that the video shown in E3 is a small part of Big Boss (like the tanker chapter)......BUT after playing that small part.......we play as Solid Snake who comes back to this place where all of this happened.

But I am not too sure about this guy being Big Boss........may be his another clone......... but himself?

Or it could be Big Boss which shows us how he reached the level of "Legendary Soldier".......

Harry
May 15th, 2003, 09:18 PM
Yeah, not to do the "we knew that" guy, but I must say that everybody here, at Ps2Fantasy.com, came out with this theory. We were all addicted to the original Metal Gear games - well, Carlito is a master in those games - and that's the first thing we thought.

I didn't notice that Snake seems to miss an eye in the trailer, but the "1960" date, the older weapons, the map-skin of the snake, immediately made us think of Big Boss. After all, if Solid looked exactly like Liquid, and if they both were clones of Big Boss... well Big Boss should look exactly like them. Doug Perry from IGN thought the character could be another clone of Big Boss, but that wouldn't make sense... a clone in the 60s?

On a note, it's evident Kojima wanted to give fans a lot of hints to make them think that the character in the game could be Big Boss... but are we sure this isn't another trick? Do you remember the genial trailers of Sons Of Liberty? They said everything and absolutely nothing at the same time, and god knows what Kojima has in mind this time.

By the way, in a couple of interviews he stressed the fact that the game will NOT take place entirely into the Jungle. It seems that the idea is giving the players the chance of playing the whole "infilitration process". Quoting from Ign's interview to Kojima:

"Again, the game doesn't consist of only playing in the jungle. Like if you get through the jungle, you'll get to buildings and when you get into the buildings, the gameplay will be similar to the previous games. The enemy AI in the jungle will be totally different. It will be acting on a totally different program, such as tracing footprints and all that, and it will be very interesting and fun."

So, it seems Kojima might have decided, once again, to not make of Solid the hero of the game... but we all know that things will be much different than what can imagine...

MakgSnake
May 15th, 2003, 09:25 PM
I wouldn't actually mind playing as BIG BOSS, but only if he is just like Solid Snake was in MGS2. Because Kojima knows that we want Solid Snake and not Saladin.

It would be totally shocking if that "guy" is BIG BOSS, but it wouldn't excite me if I end up playing with him throughout. Its not the looks, its the CHARACTER that matters. In most movies, double roles take place, and you always want the good one to survive........ not saying "it doesn't matter, they both look alike"....

Bring Big Boss to the game would be awesome but not throughout. That would be a mistake.

Harry
May 15th, 2003, 10:39 PM
Ok, just to support Digi's theory, and to confirm that the game seems to really take place in the Sixties, we can say that the weapons in the game were used exactly in that period. The rifle in the screenshots is the perfect copy of a "classic" M-16.

http://www.ps2fantasy.com/archive/forums/051603/mgs3weapons.jpg

"By 1963 US Army was purchasing the M16 for use in South East Asia and by various elite forces. The Army also ordered 85,000 rifles in 1963. An additional 35,000 were ordered in 1964, 100,000 in 1965, and 100,000 in 1966. These rifles were initially issued primarily to combat troops in the Dominican Republic and to Special Forces, Airborne, helicopter crews, Air Commando and other special category troops in Vietnam." from http://www.globalsecurity.org/

The rifle was upgraded to the M-16 A1 in 1967 and in 1983 it was completely replaced by the M-16 A2. On a note, both these models are different from the one in the screenshots.

I'd be happy to find similar info about the equipment shown in the trailer, since Konami seems to give great attention to details, even if realism is not their #1 priority; we're putting together a preview of the game showing hints and details from the trailer that can support the "Big Boss" theory or others. If you notice anything unsual or relevant, please post here your ideas, and we'll use them in the article (of course together with a "special thanks to...")!

dan da man
May 16th, 2003, 04:17 AM
You're right harry, on th officail Metal Gear Solid 3 website, it say's the 60's.

Originally posted by MakgSnake


Bring Big Boss to the game would be awesome but not throughout. That would be a mistake.


Agreed, I dont want fans angry again like with mgs2.

Harry
May 16th, 2003, 06:00 AM
Originally posted by dan da man

You're right harry, on th officail Metal Gear Solid 3 website, it say's the 60's.




Agreed, I dont want fans angry again like with mgs2.

Yes, the "60s"date is everywhere also in the trailer, but I just wanted to show that the trailer seems really to take place in that era. Personally, I don't know anything about weapons (and I'm not that interested in knowing anything about them) so as for me, just looking at the weapons, the game could have been set in the Eighties, the Seventies...

ssjtrunks13
May 16th, 2003, 09:09 AM
Maybe it goes back to big boss for some time and then they might link that to Snake presently. I was also thinking Maybe the Patriots thing links back to the Big Boss thing..

Infernal Mass
May 16th, 2003, 07:13 PM
that first gen. M16,was one of the first things that got me thinking. In the short trailer that was released first it's being fired. There's one thing that confuses me though..and that's the heat vision/infared being used.

Preventer Wind
May 16th, 2003, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by DigiMortal
There's one thing that confuses me though..and that's the heat vision/infared being used.


I think Infared was developed in the early 70s, though I am not 100% positive. I think it might have been used in Vietnam. I just know it's not that new.


If that is the M-16 hopefully it's the fixed version. Because I don't want my gun jamming up in the middle of a fire fight.

dan da man
May 17th, 2003, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by Preventer Wind
If that is the M-16 hopefully it's the fixed version. Because I don't want my gun jamming up in the middle of a fire fight.


I don't think it would get that technical, but hell it would be a challenge, if they but that idea in.

kupoartist
May 19th, 2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by MakgSnake

and you always want the good one to survive........ not saying "it doesn't matter, they both look alike"....
but is Big Boss really the Bad one? in the 60's, was he just like Snake, fighting for what was right, only for somthing to happen later in life that made him change his moral compass - the death of family, friends or maybe even his trust in the politics of the world and those in power? If this is Big Boss (and its not unlike Kojima to change main characters is it?), Kojima is going to try to make you see him as the good guy - even if its the good guy that later becomes a bad guy - As a character, Big Boss isn't someone we know much about yet - even his name lacks severe development time...

As for BB's codename... I wonder if its just plain "Snake" ?

Infernal Mass
May 19th, 2003, 03:42 PM
during the trailer there is mention of a battle of ideologies. In that pic of Big Boss he's split down the middle with the United States flag on one side and the U.S.S.R. flag on the other. That's gotta represent some sort of conflict within.

http://www.konamijpn.com/products/mgs3/english/pic/home_camouflage_17.gif

A mercenary isn't really on either side of the fence to begin with..so turning bad isn't such a tragic fall from grace as someone who was once good and became bad. Still it's going to be interesting how Kojima presents Big Boss to the fans.

Frozen
May 20th, 2003, 02:48 PM
It embarrases me to have no comments in the topic, since my internet availability is so limited and I can't play any videos in this PC :(

But then this makes me think, if the game is gonna be a prequel, just as Makg said and I disagreed, but what ssjtrunks said could be a possibility, this game could perfectly show a link between Big Boss and The Patriots...

damn, either way it always gets more interesting, even though I do want to play as THE SNAKE playing as Big Boss would not be a big difference, I think, and I think it's an awsome way to go, because I'm sure he's gonna be much more cool than Raiden was, and it's not like I've complained about Raiden, ever.


I am indeed excited!!!! :D

MakgSnake
May 20th, 2003, 03:15 PM
Well.... I am indeed excited about it..... but its too far and The Twin Snakes seems a little near. So its a good thing that Twin Snakes will keep me busy till Metal Gear Solid 3 comes out.

Neways.......now is it only me or this Snake in the trailer has different color eyes. For some reason his eyes seems Greenish Hazel to me. I dont know.....

Neway, about Big Boss being bad or good in the game..doesn't really matter. What matters is that ever since I played Metal Gea Solid 1 on PsOne. I just wanted to know more about Solid Snake's life. Not only me, but everybody. I know Raiden was a great surprise and a good character but it didn't help me learn more about Solid Snake. Big Boss would be an amazing thing but again.......I want to know more about Solid Snake's life. And no not from Third person prospective. But by actually playing and experience his instincts and situations.

Infernal Mass
May 20th, 2003, 07:53 PM
how much more is there to actually know about solid snake? his history was covered extensively in Metal Gear Solid. The real enigma is Big Boss. The entire Metal Gear saga begins with him. If it wasn't for Big Boss there'd be no Snake.

Going back to the origins of it all, of everything..that's what MGS3 is going to be about.

MakgSnake
May 20th, 2003, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by DigiMortal

how much more is there to actually know about solid snake? his history was covered extensively in Metal Gear Solid.
Knowing that one person is rude arrogant just because he killed his own father doesn't say much. There is so much more to that......playing the first Metal Gear games shows some of his past.....but there is a future ahead which should atleast tell whats there to come.

I seriously wouldn't like playing with BIG BOSS throughout the game. That would actually suck. Knowing more about him would be great and amazing, but Solid Snake is what everybody needs. You wouldn't know.

Infernal Mass
May 21st, 2003, 02:56 AM
you're right Makg, i wouldn't know.. cause i'm not swinging from Solid Snake's nutsack like you. What is interesting to me about Metal Gear is the whole big picture. Not just a character in the story..the whole story. Bringing Big Boss's perspective into the story adds to it all.

digimortal
- I wouldn't mind playing the whole game as big boss myself as long as the story and gameplay match up to par.

mark0™
May 21st, 2003, 03:39 AM
I'd Rather Play as Big Boss too. Whats left to know about Snake, he has no life really, and what life he did have we learned in MGS. I Really dont want to know what Solid Snakes favourite Movie is, I want to know about Big Boss. And Like Digi, I wouldnt mind playing the entire game with BB.

Qjij_jijQ
May 21st, 2003, 06:37 AM
Non, now kids...

You have to remember that, at some point, Big Boss is related to Solid Snake. So, by making MGS3 the 'story' of Big Boss, it might actually help us know more about Solid Snake at the same time... depending on how far in time they are willing to go, of course.

I doubt that this MGS will ONLY cover Big Boss, but it would be nice to see just how much he influenced the world of his time and what impact he had on the future. Heck, we might even get to see Snake's 'beginning', thus allowing us to know more, when it comes to the 'how' of his current situation.

... don't you think ? :peoples:

dan da man
May 21st, 2003, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by MakgSnake



Neway, about Big Boss being bad or good in the game..doesn't really matter. What matters is that ever since I played Metal Gea Solid 1 on PsOne. I just wanted to know more about Solid Snake's life. Not only me, but everybody. I know Raiden was a great surprise and a good character but it didn't help me learn more about Solid Snake. Big Boss would be an amazing thing but again.......I want to know more about Solid Snake's life. And no not from Third person prospective. But by actually playing and experience his instincts and situations.


I agree, MGS needs solid snake, I would'nt mind playing Big Boss, but I want to know more about solid sanke, its so exciting when you find out sometihng new in MG, all the twist and turns. If you do play big boss all thw way through MGS3 Snake Eater, alot of fans will be pissed of, I wont, but I would like to see more sanke, but if it is Big boss and its about orgins, we will learn more about snake becuase we will understand more how snake came if you know what I mean.

MakgSnake
May 21st, 2003, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by DigiMortal

cause i'm not swinging from Solid Snake's nutsack like you
Wha?... You couldn't find better words then that. :laugh:

Neway...I dont know if YOU remember or not, but where Sons Of Liberty left, it wasn't a very quite happy ending with all the answers. There were the patriots, Liquid's arm and more then any of that Ocelot. And you are telling me that you wanna leave all of that right there and start a storyline from the very beginning?.....? Huh?....

Even if people here dont mind playing as Big Boss throughout the game, I think Kojima would, because it wouldn't make any sense. The story of Metal Gear Saga should continue from where it left of in Sons Of Liberty.

From what I believe....... the game will start from where Sons Of Liberty left off. But we would learn about the patriots and may be one of them would tell us (Snake) more about his father, and then this jungle area will start and we will be Big Boss for the time bieng.

Leaving one story completely and starting another one is totally stupid. How will Snake get his hands on Ocelot, how will he face Liquid.....that is way important right now then how Solid Snake's clone samples were created. Thats like watching "Matrix Reloaded" and then in Revolutions they tell us how Matrix was build and what happened in the very beginning......no one would want that!

Qjij_jijQ
May 21st, 2003, 02:57 PM
... true.

Frozen
May 21st, 2003, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by MakgSnake

Wha?... You couldn't find better words then that. :laugh:

Neway...I dont know if YOU remember or not, but where Sons Of Liberty left, it wasn't a very quite happy ending with all the answers. There were the patriots, Liquid's arm and more then any of that Ocelot. And you are telling me that you wanna leave all of that right there and start a storyline from the very beginning?.....? Huh?....

Even if people here dont mind playing as Big Boss throughout the game, I think Kojima would, because it wouldn't make any sense. The story of Metal Gear Saga should continue from where it left of in Sons Of Liberty.


My very dear friend, are you forgetting it's KOJIMA the man behind this? He loves to play with us all. And releasing a game which throws us into the past rather than into the future we want to see, WILL MAKE US WANT to see that future EVEN MORE. So, with what I have been reading, this is making me think he's gonna leave the SOL thing for MGS4 and put MGS3 in between. Yes, makes no sense, not to us, but to him, it sure does.

Although I'm still hopinh this thing about the past is just going to be something like the tanker, and then throw us some 50 or 60 years into the future a la SOL (well, it was only 2 years but you know what I mean)

MakgSnake
May 21st, 2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Frozen

My very dear friend, are you forgetting it's KOJIMA the man behind this? He loves to play with us all. And releasing a game which throws us into the past rather than into the future we want to see, WILL MAKE US WANT to see that future EVEN MORE. So, with what I have been reading, this is making me think he's gonna leave the SOL thing for MGS4 and put MGS3 in between. Yes, makes no sense, not to us, but to him, it sure does.
What?....Leaving that particular part of Liquid's arm and Ocelot for more then 5 years is not surprising but stupid. I am not even going to argue with this........because we dont know whats going to happen. Just my own thought that if this game revolves around Big Boss, then its plain stupid. Would still sell well, but wouldn't be the best thing. And I dont think Kojima is that stupid.

kupoartist
May 22nd, 2003, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by Frozen
He loves to play with us all
Perhaps it is then viable to suggest that during this year's E3, he has in fact been playing with us, Either by:

1. Showing us a whole load of footage with Big Boss, just for the hell of it. (with no Big Boss in the final game ala' his GTA tribute.) / to make us all discuss MGS3.
2. He's only showing us the bits he wants us to see, to get us all talking: in Makg's theory, this would be showing us a Big Boss flash-back, without showing us the actual Snake action of the game. All in the name of promoting discussion about his upcomming MGS game, thereby making a little publicity for it.
3. A third Kojima made way, based upon weirdness, hamsters and my inability to think of a third method.
4. .... Or perhaps Snake has found a time-machine. or he's mugged Doctor Who and nicked his Tardis.

If he is playing with us, as apposed to being a little strange in the subject matter of his direct sequels.

Zanku
May 22nd, 2003, 04:17 PM
If you watch the 31mb video from the website it looks as if it is taken from the game itself...with the third-person shooting, especially shooting the bee's nest, and when Snake sneaks along the side of rocks and presses against the wall, then crouches.

I dont think on the website and in the movie they would keep mentioning "A new Era", "New gameplay" and keep saying dates such as "1960" and "1961"...If they are just going to release something that isn't this at all. Snake even gets parachuted into the jungle, so is obviously on a mission...OH, forget i said Jungle too, because it is not a Jungle, its a Forrest, the trees are deciduous and it is more of a northern climate. It also looks dryer, with less of the jungles low consuming undergrowth. So from what is on the website, mentioning Russia alot, and the splash picture for MGS3 is a map of Russia, and the forrest conditions, im quite positive that we are talking about Russia. NOT Zanzibar nor Outer Heaven, seeing as Zanzibar was in 1997 in Asia, and Outer Heaven in Africa around 1980.

Remember Snakes age here too...it we are talking about the 1960's, Snake has to be around his 20's in this game, around retirement in MGS2. And everybody, dont forget Metal Gear mechs...the paper pamphlet released about the game, includes a papercraft model of a "classified mech" designed for the new game.

Kojima is definately tricking us and playing us around alot, i think the website will raise more questions than answers...



Onto this thing about throwing us into the future, this will be a bold, and risky move... Imagine it, we have been shown all of these amazing clips and movies of a cool forrest setting, which is beautiful and provides brand new gameplay...and Kojima is only going make it last about thirty minutes then take us back to buildings, corridors and predictable plots/settings...everyone will be furious.
Bear in mind the whole gameplay appears to have changed (the movie even boldly says "NEW GAMEPLAY", remember how MGS1 and MGS2 were all right angles, you could see where the guards would go, and say "yeah if i hide here, he wont see me"...it appears in this new forrest setting, that it will be more than that, and about camoflage, and more interesting ways of concealing yourself. In this new open area, the angles are wide, this also leads to more extensive play, and a harder game for us (which is good, as it will last longer and be more unpredictable). Notice on the movie how Snake is sneaking through the grass, beside the guards...you can tell its real because you have those fake leaves blowing along your face. Why would they go to all these lengths of a basically new engine, to just waste it and make another game with similar gameplay to MGS1 and MGS2? And at that rate, even if its not going to be like this, why would they go to all these lengths to produce movies that seem to tell us about a new gameplay, to just let us down with another game full of endless corridors, buildings, bosses and the regular stuff we'd expect...eh? Seems abit stupid for Kojima to even think about doing that...

mark0™
May 22nd, 2003, 07:36 PM
Maybe its a Big Boss Episode, set in the jungles of the Congo, becuase Big Boss was a mercenary during the Congo Crisis! Then theres a Solid Snake Episode in the Woods of Russia, where Snake is maybe chasing after the Patriots and or Ocelot?

Sounds reasonable to me. Snake has to be in the game, its a necessacity. The same reason a Metal Gear must be in the game, because of the title. Metal Gear guarentees(sp?) a Metal Gear, Solid guarentees Solid Snake in some form? Right?

Vic Viper
May 23rd, 2003, 04:27 PM
http://www.gameforms.com/games/ps2/mgs3/media/media6/bossevidence2.jpg

:roll:

Infernal Mass
May 23rd, 2003, 05:35 PM
XD Kojima should make a word scramble mini game

Zanku
May 23rd, 2003, 06:11 PM
That is fantastic...and quite obviously not a coincidence, because they all happen to be lower case! Also in the big movie, snake has two eyes...although as said somewhere above...this could in fact be the mission he loses his eye! It cant be Solid Snake anyway...the ages wouldnt work out for MGS2 - i beleive Solid Snake was around 43 (is that right?) - which fits in perfectly with 1960...Maybe even this mission is when Big Boss dies and Solid Snake and Liquid Snake are cloned from him?

Edit : I was thinking (well just played the original), and i realised that MGS3 may be a re-make of the Original Nes game (or that Jungle section is a flash back of the Original Nes game?). Kojima said that the Jungle/Forrest setting will only last a part of the game, then you will have to infiltrate the base (this base could be Outer Heaven, like in the original).
If you have played the original, you will know that you get parachuted into the Jungle (like in the MGS3 trailer), and then in the Nes game you have to get through the Jungle, and infiltrate Outer Heaven. The only problem is, (that i cant understand), is that you play as Solid Snake...and when you use the Codec/Tranmission system, you are talking to Big Boss...(am i right there, i am sure you talk to Big Boss!) The rest of the Original consists of you finding Grey Fox, who has been captured, and to destroy the Metal Gear.

Off-Topic : Remember in MGS 1 you had to use the Nikita to destroy the electric control panel, so you could walk accross the electric floor? Well if you have played the Original, this exact section is in it, just thought i'd mention that, lol!

Preventer Wind
May 27th, 2003, 03:08 AM
Gamers .com: We're familiar with stealth as the key element in the Metal Gear games, but Metal Gear Solid 3 adds survival as a companion to that. How does wilderness survival gameplay work beyond simply having to hunt and eat, when he's confronted by the environment as well as his enemies?

Kojima: Probably two-thirds of the entire game takes place in the wilderness. Not only the jungle, but just general non-building areas. The thing is, the element of survival doesn't just involve filling your stomach. If it's cold, you have to fight the temperature, you have to fight the weather. There are enemies that aren't just enemy soldiers, too -- animals, snakes and the like attacking you. If you get sick, if you break a bone, you'll have to work around those problems as well.


Well that should certainly exclude any ideas that showing us footage of the wilderness seens are fake... But that means 1/3 of the game must take place inside buildings (I'm a math wizard :laugh:).

However I think mark0™ was on to something with the name of the game. Obviously the classified mech is a Metal Gear. And since Solid is in the title...you kind of figure you are going to control Solid Snake at least some part of the game.

As for it being Outer Heaven...it could be. The only thing that doesn't make sense is the year.


That is Big Boss you are talking too. He sent in Solid Snake because he was the newest member and he thought he would fail... That's my understanding of it.

Infernal Mass
May 28th, 2003, 01:31 AM
hey Makg,

you can go ahead and put a sticky on this thread . thanks buddy


adam
- peace. btw, i was just kidding about you having Solid Snake's nutsack in a sleeper-hold.

Azuma_Ninja
May 28th, 2003, 03:30 PM
For all of you who want to know so much about snake's past. Have you ever played the original game for NES? I think that would be the best place to start than the next MGS. Just my opinion though.

mark0™
May 28th, 2003, 05:05 PM
If this is some story not based on the Original Metal Gear's, I hope they use the engines to remake the originals, I'm sure they would sell well, and I tried playing the original Metal Gear on ROM and I thought It sucked really, I couldnt stand the way you play it... I'd rather play it on a PS2.

Zanku
May 28th, 2003, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by Preventer Wind
However I think mark0™ was on to something with the name of the game. Obviously the classified mech is a Metal Gear. And since Solid is in the title...you kind of figure you are going to control Solid Snake at least some part of the game.
They wouldnt change the name for that...they didnt called MGS2 Metal Gear Raiden...just because you played as Raiden for most of the game!! Companies dont change names like that...just not smart business.

Infernal Mass
May 29th, 2003, 06:43 PM
exactly, The game is backtracking and covering time to give the audience more of a understanding of the whole metal gear saga from the origin of it all. Thus the game will still have the metal Gear title. The best way to grow an audience is to betray thier expectations. Kojima is doing it again.

You see at the end of MGS2 we all learned that the patriots have been around for awhile. It's possible that Big Boss not Snake was the first to oppose the patriots. The only way the Patriots could have eliminated Big Boss is by cloning him and sending a younger version of himself to eliminate him.(Solid Snake).

Preventer Wind
May 29th, 2003, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by Zanku
They wouldnt change the name for that...they didnt called MGS2 Metal Gear Raiden...just because you played as Raiden for most of the game!! Companies dont change names like that...just not smart business

You still played some of the game as Solid Snake though. I mean it's Luigi's Mansion not Mario's Mansion (Bad example but you get the point). If you do not play as Snake at all...then it is sort of false advertising. And if the game does not push the story line from SOL forward then they should just call it Metal Gear: Snake Eater. Taking Solid out would just give away that you don't play as Snake. However, it would still sell well.

Zanku
May 30th, 2003, 07:26 PM
I guess you have a point there, you obviously play as Solid Snake somewhere along the lines in the new game...But i still think even if you didnt, that they wouldnt change the name. Metal Gear Solid is the name of the game...its hard to explain or give examples...

mark0™
May 31st, 2003, 03:18 AM
Solid Snake and Metal Gear Are To Metal Gear Solid Like What Mario And Luigi Are To Super Mario Brothers!

So If you played a Super Mario Game and had neither Mario nor Luigi making ay apearance at all, would you take kindly to it. The name explains the product, Like the sub-heading Tactical Espionage Action, they didn't just stick that in there for the hell of it, it's there becuase thats what the game is!

So Snake has to be there, even as a Non-Playable Contact, at least I think so. But I'd really prefer to play as Big Boss through most of the game.

Panda:love: Zanku come on MSN tonight bud.

kupoartist
May 31st, 2003, 03:32 AM
Originally posted by Preventer Wind
And if the game does not push the story line from SOL forward then they should just call it Metal Gear: Snake Eater. Taking Solid out would just give away that you don't play as Snake. However, it would still sell well.
perhaps he should, but remember that there has never been a "Metal Gear" game without Snake in it either, therefore suggesting that neither title is "Solid Snake Exclusive"

mark0™
May 31st, 2003, 03:36 AM
Yeah, Solids was just probably added to sort of announce the series moving onto 3d graphics. And Metal Gear Solid sounds cooler than Metal Gear, much like how PSX sounds better than PS :P

But I doubt Snake will be absent 100% through the game though.

Zanku
May 31st, 2003, 04:34 AM
I think that after Metal Gear 2 : Solid Snake, thats when Solid Snake became the main guy to the public, hence the reason they probably changed the name to Metal Gear Solid. Solid Snake will definiately feature in the game though, and if thats Snake in the movies and pictures we have seen - atleast he has not got an MGS2 beard :laugh:

Infernal Mass
Jun 1st, 2003, 04:22 AM
:laugh: in the first MGS he looked like moses during the briefing.

He'll most likely be in it. I saw two diffrent versions of the infared being used. One looked fairly older than the other. Watch the trailer to see what i mean. The older version of the infared shows up during the huge fire fight in the forest. Where Big Boss throws the smoke bomb, The newer version of the infared is used when Snake is shooting at enemies by a waterfall.

Harry
Jun 2nd, 2003, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by the_artist

perhaps he should, but remember that there has never been a "Metal Gear" game without Snake in it either, therefore suggesting that neither title is "Solid Snake Exclusive"

Actually, the title "Metal Gear Solid" also came from the fact that the game marked the jump to fully polygonal graphics for the "Metal Gear" series. After all, we shouldn't forget that when the Psx was launched, Sony's campaign (especially in North America) stressed the fact the console could handle 3D graphics better than any other system on the market.

Edit: Mark0, you did edit your previous post, I don't remember it.

ssjtrunks13
Jun 3rd, 2003, 05:52 AM
Geez, it seems I really need to play Metal Gear SOlid before I even think of touching the third game. I'm sure we wouldn't play as big boss through all of it because Snake is the main character and should continue to be. Well, I'll leave you guys to talk about it more so I can try and get the first game and beat it. I think I'd have more to say then.

mark0™
Jun 3rd, 2003, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Harry

Edit: Mark0, you did edit your previous post, I don't remember it.

You think I edited my post to copy what you said? Sorry, but I didn't, I wouldn't want to try and steal someones idea. Besides this is the first time I've read your post on this thread so unless I've got a time machine...

Just saying... I really don't know what you mean there :confused:

Infernal Mass
Jun 3rd, 2003, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by ssjtrunks13

Geez, it seems I really need to play Metal Gear SOlid before I even think of touching the third game. I'm sure we wouldn't play as big boss through all of it because Snake is the main character and should continue to be. Well, I'll leave you guys to talk about it more so I can try and get the first game and beat it. I think I'd have more to say then.

MGS2 has a thorough summary of the first game in it. Plus it has diffrent perspectives on the whole incident on shadow moses, which i thought was interesting. It's a great game though, you may be able to find it for like 10 bucks somewhere. Either that or just get twinsnakes for the cube. :D

Bogart
Jun 3rd, 2003, 11:20 AM
I love so much the MGS storyline... but if there is a thing I can't understand is...

why on earth should Revolver Ocelot speak like Liquid just because he had his arm transplanted????????

Don't you think is a kinda stupid thing?

Speaking of Snake Eater: I'm sure Kojima will show us a sort of double adventure - imagine how'd be cool to see the two Snakes fighting the Patriots at the same time. And I have a final thought: on my opinion, for the series to be perfect, Kojima should have the courage to make Solid Snake die in this third episode: just think about it - Liquid in the first, Solidus in the second, Solid in the third. The tale would have some sort of heroic pattern in it in this way...

P.s. I also didn't read Mark0's post yesterday! Maybe some error in the time?

Harry
Jun 3rd, 2003, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by Bogart

I love so much the MGS storyline... but if there is a thing I can't understand is... XXXXXXXXXXXXXX Don't you think is a kinda stupid thing?

Speaking of Snake Eater: I'm sure Kojima will show us a sort of double adventure - imagine how'd be cool to see the two Snakes fighting the Patriots at the same time. And I have a final thought: on my opinion, for the series to be perfect, Kojima should have the courage to make Solid Snake die in this third episode: just think about it - Liquid in the first, Solidus in the second, Solid in the third. The tale would have some sort of heroic pattern in it in this way...

P.s. I also didn't read Mark0's post yesterday! Maybe some error in the time?

Bogart, remember to mark your spoilers.

kupoartist
Jun 3rd, 2003, 02:29 PM
Bogart, here is the explaination : http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2001-11-30&res=l

(hehe... perhaps they were a bit harsh :happy: )

Dark Angel
Jun 3rd, 2003, 03:40 PM
Yay, Penny Arcade strikes again!

kupoartist
Jun 3rd, 2003, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Dark Angel
Yay, Penny Arcade strikes again!
yes, its a rather bad habit of mine to post these strips isn't it :)

MakgSnake
Jun 3rd, 2003, 11:09 PM
Yeah I read that Penny Arcade joke in Playstation Official mag, when the game came out.

Infernal Mass
Jun 5th, 2003, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by Bogart

I love so much the MGS storyline... but if there is a thing I can't understand is...

why on earth should Revolver Ocelot speak like Liquid just because he had his arm transplanted????????

Don't you think is a kinda stupid thing?

Speaking of Snake Eater: I'm sure Kojima will show us a sort of double adventure - imagine how'd be cool to see the two Snakes fighting the Patriots at the same time. And I have a final thought: on my opinion, for the series to be perfect, Kojima should have the courage to make Solid Snake die in this third episode: just think about it - Liquid in the first, Solidus in the second, Solid in the third. The tale would have some sort of heroic pattern in it in this way...

P.s. I also didn't read Mark0's post yesterday! Maybe some error in the time?

that would be interesting. i think part of the reason why kojima came up with the raiden character, was because he was going to kill off snake.

he was injected with fox-die afterall. it's just a matter of time until he does die, unless he finds a cure somehow? which is inevitable now that we all know nobody really cared for raiden.

Zephyr
Jun 5th, 2003, 03:59 PM
Good views Digi (or do you prefer DigiMortal?). I personally would like to see Snake survive becasue I didnt really like Raiden in the first place. He was just brought in to see the publics reaction/opinion in my view but who knows? But if Soid was to die I would probably lose interest in the game.

Infernal Mass
Jun 5th, 2003, 08:50 PM
everyone usually just calls me digi.

MGS2 would've been alot better if it had snake as the main character throughout. i can understand what kojima was trying to accomplish by bringing in a rookie type character. Although a battle between solidus and solid snake would've been an excellent way to end sons of liberty.

mark0™
Jun 5th, 2003, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by DigiMortal

everyone usually just calls me digi.

MGS2 would've been alot better if it had snake as the main character throughout. i can understand what kojima was trying to accomplish by bringing in a rookie type character. Although a battle between solidus and solid snake would've been an excellent way to end sons of liberty.

But, Snake didnt really know Solidus. Raiden had history with him, Solidus turned Raiden into what he is, and he hates what he is. Solidus killed his parent too didnt he? So Raiden Killing Solidus Seems more appropriate.

I think people love Snake a litle too much. Raiden wasn't that bad. He wasn't that good neither...

Not really on topic, but how many clones resulted from the "Les Infants Terribles" (Not sure if thats spelled right, wasnt great at French). Theres Snake, Liquid and Solidus. Is there anymore? The Next will probably be called something stupid like "Gaseous Snake" :disturb:

MakgSnake
Jun 5th, 2003, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by mark0™

Not really on topic, but how many clones resulted from the "Les Infants Terribles" (Not sure if thats spelled right, wasnt great at French). Theres Snake, Liquid and Solidus. Is there anymore? The Next will probably be called something stupid like "Gaseous Snake" :disturb:
From Big Boss's DNA, six testube babies were created, out of 6, three couldn't live through the first few days. Liquid thought that four of the six babies were deciesed. He was wrong......which means any of the us could be wrong, may be the other 3 lived through as well, who knows eh!! :D

As for why Raiden was brought in MGS2, was because of the reasons mentioned above (To surprise people and shock people), but more then "I THINK", to give a lead character to the "Metal Gear Solid" series, we all know that Raiden (If not soon) will return as a HERO in the future Metal Gear games. I think of it that the day Kojima "ACTUALLY" stops making Metal Gear games and hands the project to someone else "completely"...... the RAIDEN stories will start...... and he would get a new getup, and I think people will be pretty happy to see him make a return after so many years. I know I would.

Oh, and about the three other babies that didn't make it. I think the best show down will be of "Solid Snake" Vs "Solid Snake", and I mean not like Liquid or Solidus but another Solid Snake himself (one of the other babies). I still think it wouldn't top the fight between Big Boss and Solid Snake again. Still actual good "Snake" Vs, another "Snake" would be cool.

Zanku
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:09 PM
Well, we might see Raiden again...but Kojima only put Raiden in so that we could see Snake in a different perspective, and that after playing as a Beginner, Snake would look so much more impressive! To be honest i would rather not play as Raiden again, i'd prefer to be playing as Snake...
Raiden was just an odd bean in the series, all the past FOX-HOUND members were given codenames consisting of something personal, and an animal they identify with, here they are -

Solid Snake
Liquid Snake
Solidus Snake
Revolver Ocelot
Vulcan Raven
Sniper Wolf
Psycho Mantis
Decoy Octopus
Gray Fox

And then we have Raiden...:disturb: w00t, sure pushed out the boat thinking up that :laugh: They should of called him something cool...like Gray Fox or Decoy Octopus.......those are damn cool codenames...wtf is Raiden all about?. I like the way that he has girls eyes, on the making-of dvd the guy who made the computer generated Raiden said he gave him girls eyes, heh!

Enough about Raiden, i tell you who i want to see - Master Miller!! I hope we see him training up Snake in survival, that'd be really cool, even if he isnt in much of the game, a small appearance would be cool, i liked Master Miller (damn Liquid killing him!)

MakgSnake
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by Zanku


Enough about Raiden, i tell you who i want to see - Master Miller!! I hope we see him training up Snake in survival, that'd be really cool, even if he isnt in much of the game, a small appearance would be cool, i liked Master Miller (damn Liquid killing him!)
True, I would like that too, but please mark your spoilers. Especially as Twin Snakes is coming soon.

Zephyr
Jun 6th, 2003, 03:52 PM
I know its annoying but thats the way Kojima decided to play it. If that hadnt happened to Master Miller he would've returned probably at some point. Anyways unfortunatley "I live on through this arm" ooh I wanna shoot you dead.:frust:

Zanku
Jun 6th, 2003, 06:49 PM
Im sorry MakgSnake, totally forgot...and thats quite a large twist :heh: I'll make sure i think more next time.

MakgSnake
Jun 6th, 2003, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by Zanku

Im sorry MakgSnake, totally forgot...and thats quite a large twist :heh: I'll make sure i think more next time.
Its cool, just be careful. :) . Metal Gear is a beautiful story, the last thing we all could do is spoil it. :D

Zanku
Jun 7th, 2003, 07:43 AM
Definately! Have you seen the making of DVD? It was with MGS2? Kojima is really thoughtful about his games, he tries to add alot of genre codes into his games, like Olga and Snake being like a Cowboy or Samurai film (Tanker fight). Even those it is original and cool, the way he had Jack and Rose, and a sinking ship, to relate to the Titanic film, was kinda odd... I really didnt like Rose, she was annoying, and she talked for way too long (i usually skip her dialogue)

Mega MGS2 Spoiler-
Did Snake ever meet the Colonel in person? Was he ever a real person...or always a computer program? I never understood that part...

dan da man
Jun 7th, 2003, 07:53 AM
Yea Zanku that DVD was amazing! Kojima puts alot of love in and his team, the bit about the colonel makg can explain fully, but Snake/Pliskin never met him, he was part of the programme, it was never Roy Cambell.

Zanku
Jun 7th, 2003, 08:37 AM
Okay, well reply here http://www.ps2fantasy.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6249 This thread seems to be going off topic abit!

dan da man
Jun 7th, 2003, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by Zanku

Okay, well reply here http://www.ps2fantasy.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6249 This thread seems to be going off topic abit!


What with 6 pages? I think its doing quite fine, but I will check your thread out.

Infernal Mass
Jun 14th, 2003, 04:19 AM
Originally posted by dan da man

Yea Zanku that DVD was amazing!

I still need to get that..is it sold seperately? How long is it?

dan da man
Jun 14th, 2003, 07:08 AM
Originally posted by DigiMortal

I still need to get that..is it sold seperately? How long is it?


It came with the MGS2 UK version, the only place you could get it from is ebay or amazon, but that means you would have to buy a new ps2 (UK) The dvd is HUGE it tells you everying about mgs2, from interviews to arts to how they made the game and thought up the story on sons of liberty and plenty more.

kupoartist
Jun 14th, 2003, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by dan da man
It came with the MGS2 UK version, the only place you could get it from is ebay or amazon, but that means you would have to buy a new ps2 (UK) The dvd is HUGE it tells you everying about mgs2, from interviews to arts to how they made the game and thought up the story on sons of liberty and plenty more.
is this "making of" content not on "Document of Metal Gear Solid 2" or whatever it was called? if so, thats available to buy in the US on its own. I believe it was bundled with Substance for Free in the UK. And there are surely a few copies of the original MGS2 floating around with the making of cd?

dan da man
Jun 14th, 2003, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by the_artist

is this "making of" content not on "Document of Metal Gear Solid 2" or whatever it was called? if so, thats available to buy in the US on its own. I believe it was bundled with Substance for Free in the UK. And there are surely a few copies of the original MGS2 floating around with the making of cd?


The one, you get with MGS2: SOB, anyway that's what me and Zanku are on about, and I was telling Digimortal about.