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Vicious_2003
Jan 13th, 2003, 10:03 PM
Ok I wasnt exactly sure what forum this should go so im slappin it here, if its miss placed I apologize to the administrators. Ok so im sad to report I am no longer an owner of a playstation console. As of today I have traded it in at my local babbages and have purchased an X Box. My reasons you ask , well allow me to list them

#1. Controllers...too small...waaay to cheaply made. I have had cases where I dropped them and had a button stop working completely. Ive gone through atleast 120 dollars worth of controllers sense purchasing my station about 3 months after its release way back when (X-Box controllers are MUCH sturdier*, and although I dont really like the size of the S type either, its still a better controller than sony's)

#2. Sony Online. SCEA, whatever ya wanna call it absolutely SUCKS in comparison to LIVE. Lets face it Live surpasses it in just about every way. Sept for online games at te moment (I dont enjoy Unreal or Fever etc all that much)

#3. SOCOM. Never have I been more frustrated and disgusted with a game. Playing online anymore is near impossible. The server is how should I put it....pathetic !!. Takes an average of ten full minutes just to get logged in and if your not disconnected right away it happen suring a game or after a game is played. (The game USED to be AWESOME back before Christmas hit but now the servers are over crowded and most of them are ten year old kids who cant play)

#4 . X Box has 4 controller ports, nuff said (What WAS Sony thinking ?!)

#5 Overall quality. If theres anything you can expect with Microsoft and its products (At least with X Box anyways) Its QUALITY. Better stuff inside and out for the same price, cant beat that

#6 . The Playstation 2 is made to break. My friend bought one the day it came out and just last week had to buy a new one because his quit reading disks all together. Then I saw it happening to my PS2 ever so slowly. It starts by not reading DVDs now and then ,then gets progressively worse as time goes by till it stops playing games

Im not TRYING to bash Sony here. I had butt loads of fun with my PS2. But now I feel somewhat betrayed now that Ive really tasted what X Box has to offer and have been burned by Sony’s crappy online playing games and their lack of quality. Sorry if ive bothered anyone...just needed to rant ;)

DSgamer
Jan 13th, 2003, 10:20 PM
Dude, i love my ps2, but i do see ur point, i agree with number 1,3,4,and 6. my friends ps2 has stopped reading disks all together, and sometims my ps2 doesn't read dvd's now and then. i returned my socom copy because i couldn't play it online, and im tired of the little kids who r allways saying shit like "haha u stupidass, i killed u" that pisses me off, and yeah, what the hell was sony thinking, the ps2 coul've had 4 controller ports instead of 2, my controller broke after about 2 weeks of use, now i have to use an ugly ass 3rd party product. I love my ps2 and all so i tolerate this things, but if they get worse, i will have to get an XBOX

Carlito
Jan 13th, 2003, 10:21 PM
Guys, keep this thread clean ;)

Originally posted by Weapon_XZ84

#5 Overall quality. If theres anything you can expect with Microsoft and its products (At least with X Box anyways) Its QUALITY. Better stuff inside and out for the same price, cant beat that



Hehe I've no time to write a full answer, but I guess many will have to object to this.

Vicious_2003
Jan 13th, 2003, 11:42 PM
lol, sorry...again it was a rant....rants sometimes overlook the rules. Perhaps I went a little bit overboard :phew:

P.S I read my rant and it seems a little more anti-Sony than I had originally intended. Im just a lil pissed at em right now, I could always buy a new PS2 one of these days, maybe just to play FFX-2 who knows

MakgSnake
Jan 14th, 2003, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by Weapon_XZ84


#1. Controllers...too small...waaay to cheaply made. I have had cases where I dropped them and had a button stop working completely. Ive gone through atleast 120 dollars worth of controllers sense purchasing my station about 3 months after its release way back when (X-Box controllers are MUCH sturdier*, and although I dont really like the size of the S type either, its still a better controller than sony's)

I have to say, I have had Dual Shock controllers for more then 6 years now and I NO problem at all. The Xbox normal controllers are horrible in my opinion. Tooo big, so big that they have stopped sending them now. Even Microsoft knows that it was a bad move by making the controllers so big and out of shape buttons (The A, B, X, Y on the normal controllers were put in abnormally) I am glad about the Controller S that they are shaped in Triangle (Just like Dual Shock controllers). Still S is nothing infront of DS (In my opinion)

#2. Sony Online. SCEA, whatever ya wanna call it absolutely SUCKS in comparison to LIVE. Lets face it Live surpasses it in just about every way. Sept for online games at te moment (I dont enjoy Unreal or Fever etc all that much)
Service may be good, as basically its a PC in a BOX. But right now need more titles for the LIVE. There aren't just enough. I dont wanna have fast nice speed for the ONLINE and a shitty game. UC is a great game and so is Ghost Recon for the Xbox, but Socom is much much better (when it comes to game play atleast).
And In GHOST RECON........ there is nobody there PLAYING online. Atleast you have kids playing on SOCOM servers.

#4 . X Box has 4 controller ports, nuff said (What WAS Sony thinking ?!)
Ok I agree with that....... but the Multi-Tap is not expensive at all, and if you have previous Dual Shock from PsOne, just have to buy a Multi-Tap for cheap price, then paying $40 (Canadian) for the Controller S or the normal one (x 3)

#5 Overall quality. If theres anything you can expect with Microsoft and its products (At least with X Box anyways) Its QUALITY. Better stuff inside and out for the same price, cant beat that.
Graphics is the last thing to check on the games now. They all looks pretty decent. One is more shinny and has nice background. But hey GAMEPLAY matters the most. Ps2 may not have the best graphics as its an YEAR old system, but it sure has 10 times better gameplay (QUALITY) games on it.

#6 . The Playstation 2 is made to break. My friend bought one the day it came out and just last week had to buy a new one because his quit reading disks all together. Then I saw it happening to my PS2 ever so slowly. It starts by not reading DVDs now and then ,then gets progressively worse as time goes by till it stops playing games.
Although Xbox may have more features, like better DVD player which you have to pay $49 (Canadian) to get. And it can play CD-RW cds......... still IN TWO WEEKS TIME, my Xbox has given me more trouble then any console ever. Even my Playstation1 never had freezing problem between games (Never) But Xbox did. And dont know if most of you know or not....but all the Xbox's in the market right now.....they have a pretty bad Lense, it burns real quick. Most probably soon, Microsoft will give retailers a better Xbox with better lense in the market. These one right now are horrible........ Its a market re-search.

Im not TRYING to bash Sony here. I had butt loads of fun with my PS2. But now I feel somewhat betrayed now that Ive really tasted what X Box has to offer and have been burned by Sony’s crappy online playing games and their lack of quality. Sorry if ive bothered anyone...just needed to rant ;)
I am not bashing Xbox as well, just pointing out some things. I have all three consoles........and I love all of them. Still.........Ps2 stands out. Completely.

Sleazy P Martini
Jan 14th, 2003, 12:08 AM
Ok.....I am an Xbox fan but I'm having a hard time agreeing with #5 & 6.......I'm on my third Xbox, while my first PS2 still hums away. Maybe I just got unlucky. I'm so glad I paid the extra 30 bucks and bought the store warranty for my Xbox.

mark0™
Jan 14th, 2003, 12:09 AM
My PS2 broke down once, but It was due to the fan burning out (playing GTA3 too long when it came out) but it's not made to break, you need to show it a little care, remember its not a heavy duty industrial machine, It's a little box meant to be carried around easily and sit in the corner of your room.

But I dont think the Xbox is better, I have one, I love my Xbox, PS2 and GC all the same, but I feel the Xbox is a little too powerful, thats sounds daft, but I like having a dainty console with easy to use features like pop open covers to put your disks in for example, so I really enjoy my GC the most, it's just a weird thing I have.

Probably the ultimate console will probably be something as powerful as the Xbox, as easy to operate as the Game Cube and with a vast Games library like the Playstation. :)

Spank-A-Thon
Jan 14th, 2003, 06:43 AM
May as well throw in my 2 pence...

Originally posted by Weapon_XZ84
#1. Controllers...too small...waaay to cheaply made. I have had cases where I dropped them and had a button stop working completely. Ive gone through atleast 120 dollars worth of controllers sense purchasing my station about 3 months after its release way back when (X-Box controllers are MUCH sturdier*, and although I dont really like the size of the S type either, its still a better controller than sony's)None of my SONY controllers have ever broke - and that includes the non-analog controllers I got with my PSX way back in 1996! If you look after your controllers, like I have, then you shouldn't have any problems. I can't really comment on the XBox controllers as I've only used one once or twice.#2. Sony Online. SCEA, whatever ya wanna call it absolutely SUCKS in comparison to LIVE. Lets face it Live surpasses it in just about every way. Sept for online games at te moment (I dont enjoy Unreal or Fever etc all that much)LIVE may offer the better all-round service, but you have to pay a monthly fee for it. The PS2 on-line service follows the PC model - ie. most games will be free to play on-line. It depends how you look at it - I'm perfectly happy with my PC on-line gaming, and if PS2 is going to be like that then I'm happy. I don't want to pay monthly for something I might not use that often.#4 . X Box has 4 controller ports, nuff said (What WAS Sony thinkng ?!)Indeed, what were SONY thinking? That is what I feel is the biggest flaw with PS2.#5 Overall quality. If theres anything you can expect with Microsoft and its products (At least with X Box anyways) Its QUALITY. Better stuff inside and out for the same price, cant beat thatHoo hoo - you surely are not serious! M$ making quality products??? Heh heh - that's a good one!

Do you actually use any M$ products? Imagine buying a car, but it only had three wheels. When you complain to the sales company they tell you not to worry, it will be fixed in Service Pack 1.... That, my friend, is Windows. The operating system the majority of the worlds PC's use is a non-secure, constantly updated 'quality' product.... I won't even get into what I think about Internet Information Server, Frontpage or .NET...

As for the hardware bits being quality... well, you have Intel processor & nVidia graphics - not exactly a whole load of M$ going on there! Considering SONY are one of the leaders in the whole Audio/Visual entertainment market, I really don't see how you can consider their products inferior in terms of quality.#6 . The Playstation 2 is made to break. My friend bought one the day it came out and just last week had to buy a new one because his quit reading disks all together. Then I saw it happening to my PS2 ever so slowly. It starts by not reading DVDs now and then ,then gets progressively worse as time goes by till it stops playing gamesI've had my PS2 since the day of release and NEVER had a problem with it. My PSX is equally still going. Maybe your friend was unlucky - but both of mine have, and will continue to serve me well.Im not TRYING to bash Sony here. I had butt loads of fun with my PS2. But now I feel somewhat betrayed now that Ive really tasted what X Box has to offer and have been burned by Sony’s crappy online playing games and their lack of quality. Sorry if ive bothered anyone...just needed to rant ;) For someone who's not trying to bash SONY, you're doing a very good job of it.

You feel betrayed by SONY? Well, 30 million other PS2 owners don't feel betrayed.

Don't blame SONY for bad on-line games - blame the developers, they're the ones who make them. And on-line is just one tiny portion of the game industry - the important bit is still, and will continue to be, off-line gaming.

And on that note, I off to play Gungrave - off-line shooting perfection...

- S

dan da man
Jan 14th, 2003, 07:47 AM
i agree with, with weaponXZ on the controllers

these y i like them an not

i like ps2 controllers for metal gear solid and evry other title, the touch senstive thing is beautiful.

i like xbox controllers with thm 2 triggers on the back so handy for fps.

so basically i have my ps2 for adventure games and many others

and my xbox for fps because the controller is so handy for them,

overall u cant beat the ps2 controller. even though i luv the xbox controller.

KraftSLU
Jan 14th, 2003, 08:00 AM
Dude, happy to hear you like your Xbox, bt I am sad to hear you got rid of your PS2 :( Ditching a game console is like a sin in my books as there are almost always some great games for it! Turbo grafix 16 had Bonk, 3DO had return fire and a few others... But oh well, as long as you are happy. Maybe some day down the road you will have the cash to pick up an old ps2 out of nostalgia and play some of the great titles again ;)

mark0™
Jan 14th, 2003, 10:05 AM
Hey Spank, It's not too fair to compare the Xbox with the Microsoft Software packages :disturb: But It does carry on that "95%" completion feel, like you had to buy the Remote control (I think the remote comes with the 'box as standard now) if you wanted to play DVD's, that pissed me off as I could Play DVD's on my PS2 straight out of the Box. Plus, why can't these damn consoles get they're on-line capabilites off as soon as they are on sale *grumble*, I mean come on, the Dreamcast could (Does anyone know when the networks for Gamecube, PS2 and Xbox will be available in the UK if they are not already?)

But yeah, Microsoft is a rip-off merchant, what do you expect from the guy who got to be the Richest man in the world by screwing over IBM eh?

dan da man
Jan 14th, 2003, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by mark0

Hey Spank, It's not too fair to compare the Xbox with the Microsoft Software packages :disturb: But It does carry on that "95%" completion feel, like you had to buy the Remote control (I think the remote comes with the 'box as standard now) if you wanted to play DVD's, that pissed me off as I could Play DVD's on my PS2 straight out of the Box. Plus, why can't these damn consoles get they're on-line capabilites off as soon as they are on sale *grumble*, I mean come on, the Dreamcast could (Does anyone know when the networks for Gamecube, PS2 and Xbox will be available in the UK if they are not already?)

But yeah, Microsoft is a rip-off merchant, what do you expect from the guy who got to be the Richest man in the world by screwing over IBM eh?

mark0 the release dat for xbox live in the uk is 14/3/03,
ps2 is out in april i think, and i dont have a clue when gamecube online is coming out in the uk.

Spank-A-Thon
Jan 14th, 2003, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by mark0

Hey Spank, It's not too fair to compare the Xbox with the Microsoft Software packages :disturb: But It does carry on that "95%" completion feel, like you had to buy the Remote controlI think it is fair - I was merely countering the arguement that Microsoft make quality goods. Maybe the XBox is well made, maybe it isn't (although ironically, some of the M$ PC peripherals are excellent quality) - if he'd have said the XBox is high quality then I wouldn't have brought M$'s software into things at all!

- S

ssjtrunks13
Jan 14th, 2003, 12:23 PM
So far my dad's PS2(1 year) and PS1(5 years, maybe longer) are still holding out. I like the PS2 controller a lot and I also feel that the biggest flaw in PS is on;y 2 controller ports, but if they put in four they would have to either change the size of the end that plugs into the system or make it longer.

Vicious_2003
Jan 14th, 2003, 12:35 PM
Just wanted to make it clear that their were other outlying factors that caused me to switch, such as the fact that my PS2 wasn't working well and was headed for the scrap heap, I couldn't even sell it to any stores that bought used game stuff because it didn't load the games up immediately, I always had to go to the browser and click on the disc to start it up. Also I had everything I ever saved get deleted because my official Sony memory card unformatted itself over night !. Dont ask me how that happened. That made the X Box's hard drive all the more inciting. And just some responses to the replies I read.

1. X Box Live only costs 50 bucks . A one time fee to buy the headset and what not. But no extra fees are certain yet and its very possible (Probable) That they wont be charging anything monthly after the year is up. Also someone mentioned that they didnt like that the the X Box requires the remote to play dvd's and that it costs 50 dollars. First of all it doesn't cost that much, maybe it did when it came out but I saw it yesterday for 29.99. Also the PS2 didn't come with a friggin hard drive and they have the nerve to charge 200 bucks for it separate (PS2 hard drive will come with a keyboard, mouse, etc...!!. WTF that means a PS2 with hard drive is 400 dollars while an X Box comes with one and only costs 200. 212.48 after tax :laugh: . Oh and lets not mention the network adapter which was 40 dollars, makes the little 30 dollar DVD remote look like Small potatoes (Also you need the update that comes with the PS2 remote to play Region 2 DVD's I do believe)

DSgamer
Jan 14th, 2003, 02:08 PM
dude, what ur talking about, the hdd with the mouse and keyboard and shit is just so u can make ur ps2 work like a pc (linux), I'm sure u can buy all the parts without having to pay 400 bucks for a the kit, and it's most likely that u'll b paying about 50-80 bucks for the hdd so get ur fact's straigh b4 posting sumthing like this

XboxKiller
Jan 14th, 2003, 02:27 PM
But the point is that you pay a monthly fee. ps2 is free. now I know its not as good as live But live will never have the games ps2 has. xbox makes good graphics while ps2 makes the best games with good gameplay and graphics that wont disappoint you. you'll come back to sony if you like rpg's just think whats coming out next month
xenosaga
starocean
breath of fire
:roll:

Daedaelus
Jan 14th, 2003, 03:29 PM
#1. Controllers...too small...waaay to cheaply made. I have had cases where I dropped them and had a button stop working completely. Ive gone through atleast 120 dollars worth of controllers sense purchasing my station about 3 months after its release way back when (X-Box controllers are MUCH sturdier*, and although I dont really like the size of the S type either, its still a better controller than sony's)

The simple response to this is: stop dropping them! The fact that you have gone through atleast $120 worth of controllers indicates that you are a rather clumsy individual. Ok, I will admit that I've dropped my controller a couple times but it has never stopped working.

#2. Sony Online. SCEA, whatever ya wanna call it absolutely SUCKS in comparison to LIVE. Lets face it Livesurpasses it in just about every way. Sept for online games at te moment (I dont enjoy Unreal or Fever etc all that much)

Like Spank said, you must pay a monthly fee for LIVE.

#3. SOCOM. Never have I been more frustrated and disgusted with a game. Playing online anymore is near impossible. The server is how should I put it....pathetic !!. Takes an average of ten full minutes just to get logged in and if your not disconnected right away it happen suring a game or after a game is played. (The game USED to be AWESOME back before Christmas hit but now the servers are over crowded and most of them are ten year old kids who cant play)

I don't think I've ever encountered a problem like you're describing. As for the "ten year old kids" comment: a lot of children are now getting into M rated games. Perhaps some of those ten year olds are teenage players who stink.

#4 . X Box has 4 controller ports, nuff said (What WAS Sony thinking ?!)

Not too many Multiplayer games on the PS2 are even decent.

#5 Overall quality. If theres anything you can expect with Microsoft and its products (At least with X Box anyways) Its QUALITY. Better stuff inside and out for the same price, cant beat that

That's not true. Remember how bad Windows ME was?! Yechh..!

#6 . The Playstation 2 is made to break. My friend bought one the day it came out and just last week had to buy a new one because his quit reading disks all together. Then I saw it happening to my PS2 ever so slowly. It starts by not reading DVDs now and then ,then gets progressively worse as time goes by till it stops playing games

Then, Sony replaces the PS2 for free. For some odd reason, my PS2 did not read DVDs when I first got it. I called Sony and sent it to them, they tried to fix it, and when they couldn't, they sent me a new one in 2 weeks.

goodman
Jan 14th, 2003, 08:15 PM
Weapon, Iguana and I will be thinking of you while playing Zelda on the Cube, and i will while playing Contra and DMC2 on the ps2! You can think of me while playing the linear, yet pretty Panzer Dragoon Orta (i had Saga and didnt finish but two disc, kinda didnt excite me). These decisions are individual ones, but without a doubt the console you chose is the last on my list, just because of things like MS put up on their site last week, showing they deserve any criticism that comes their way...

KraftSLU
Jan 14th, 2003, 08:52 PM
I don't understand how you can make price an issue with either of these online services. Yes, you have to pay a startup fee for XboxLive, but you do get the headset and online demo's with it. You have to pay for your online ps2 adapter and what do you get? Jack. That, and you get a full year of service just with your startup, and they haven't even determined what the monthly charge will be, or if they will do a monthly charge yet.

goodman
Jan 14th, 2003, 10:03 PM
I dont think Sony has ever had huge plans for the ps2 online, that is why its taken them so long to get even the average set up that they have. Xbox live is without question a better set up, and im neither a opponent or proponent of either, just being broadband only make Xbox live a more viable setup...

Vicious_2003
Jan 14th, 2003, 10:13 PM
First of all im not clumsy usually im throwing the controller but im saying PS2 controllers arent made as well and dont take wear and tear very well. And hey X Box killer. I stated clearly that thier is NOT now a monthly fee for X Box Live, its better than Sonys online garbage and it costs about the same as the network adapter, plus Sony's selling a seperate headset in the near future that will cost even more, and yes I can make a price issue out of this because thier is one, X Box is the better bargain hands down barring any serious product failures and im yet to experience one so Ill keep ya posted. Most of the counter points that any of you have made have been derivitive and un proven by any accounts ive studies up on.

Spank-A-Thon
Jan 15th, 2003, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by Weapon_XZ84

First of all im not clumsy usually im throwing the controller but im saying PS2 controllers arent made as well and dont take wear and tear very well.What do you expect if you throw your controllers? That's like saying a car is not well made because it's get damaged when you drive it into a wall...

However there is ample evidence within this thread that proves SONY controllers are well made. The majority of people here have not have any problems with them and in general find the SONY controller more comfortable than the XBox controller.
And hey X Box killer. I stated clearly that thier is NOT now a monthly fee for X Box Live, its better than Sonys online garbage and it costs about the same as the network adapter, plus Sony's selling a seperate headset in the near future that will cost even more, and yes I can make a price issue out of this because thier is one, X Box is the better bargain hands down barring any serious product failures and im yet to experience one so Ill keep ya posted.SONYs on-line service is a completely different model to Live. Live is all based around a central Microsoft service, much like MSN Gaming Zone. This means you have no choice as a consumer - you have to use M$ service whether you want to or not.

The SONY on-line service follows the PC model. Capcom will have their on-line service for their on-line games. Squaresoft already have PlayOnline. SONY will have their service for their games and so on. This way I can choose who's service I want to use - I will not be forced to always use SONY's service.

XBox may well be a better bargain - but then again so is a Ford Fiesta. But what if I prefer to drive Honda? You may get less for more money - but I prefer Honda... Whether something is a bargain or not is irrelevant - that makes no difference to the quality of something.

So you've had no serious product failures with the XBox. I should expect not. But guess what - I've had none with my PSX, PS2, Dreamcast or GameCube... There's plenty of people in this thread who have said they've had no product failures.... So what exactly is your point? I fail to see one...Most of the counter points that any of you have made have been derivitive and un proven by any accounts ive studies up on. Derivative??? Unproven???

You obviously know little about M$ products. I can provide numerous links to proof about the lack of quality of M$ products. I'd love to know what accounts you've studied.... MicrosoftLovers.com maybe? What about BillGatesIsMyDad.com? Maybe even XBoxRulezPS2SuxDoooooooood.com....

If you're going to call everyone's counter-arguements 'derivative' and 'unproven' then explain why. Give proof why you call them that. An arguement is 100 times more convincing when it's backed up with evidence...

- S

mark0™
Jan 15th, 2003, 06:55 AM
Hey Spank can you put up some links to prove MS's bad program qualities? I know MS is bad, everyone bashes them, but All I really know thats bad about them is that they dont give you the Program complete and you need updates and patches continuously and that the Source code is blocked off, which Is why a lot of serious computer users use OS's like Linus and Unix because they can edit the source code, but thats no use to me as the only programming I know is a little BASIC. :confused:

I do beleive you on MS's evilness but just want to see some hard evidence on what is really wrong with it.

Spank-A-Thon
Jan 15th, 2003, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by mark0

Hey Spank can you put up some links to prove MS's bad program qualities?Sure, I'll post a few links that deal only with Win XP.

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS01-054 Invalid Universal Plug and Play Request can Disrupt System Operation (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS01-054.asp?frame=true)

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS01-059 Unchecked Buffer in Universal Plug and Play can Lead to System Compromise (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS01-059.asp?frame=true)

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-006Unchecked Buffer in SNMP Service Could Enable Arbitrary Code to be Run (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS02-006.asp?frame=true)

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-008 XMLHTTP Control Can Allow Access to Local Files (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS02-008.asp?frame=true)

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-017 Unchecked buffer in the Multiple UNC Provider Could Enable Code Execution (Q311967) (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS02-017.asp?frame=true)

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-029 Unchecked Buffer in Remote Access Service Phonebook Could Lead to Code Execution (Q318138) (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS02-029.asp?frame=true)

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-050 Certificate Validation Flaw Could Enable Identity Spoofing (Q329115) (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS02-050.asp?frame=true)

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-051 Cryptographic Flaw in RDP Protocol can Lead to Information Disclosure (Q324380) (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS02-051.asp?frame=true)

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-053 Buffer Overrun in SmartHTML Interpreter Could Allow Code Execution (Q324096) (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS02-053.asp?frame=true)

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-054 Unchecked Buffer in File Decompression Functions Could Lead to Code Execution (Q329048) (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS02-054.asp?frame=true)

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-055 Unchecked Buffer in Windows Help Facility Could Enable Code Execution (Q323255) (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS02-055.asp?frame=true)

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-060 Flaw in Windows XP Help and Support Center Could Enable File Deletion (Q328940) (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS02-060.asp?frame=true)

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-069 Flaw in Microsoft VM Could Enable System Compromise (810030) (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS02-069.asp?frame=true)

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-072 Unchecked Buffer in Windows Shell Could Enable System Compromise (329390) (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS02-072.asp?frame=true)

Now some of the above security problems are of critical severity (M$'s words, not mine), others are not so important. But it took me 2 minutes to find descriptions of these flaws on the M$ website. This is for XP, the newest 'most secure' Windows yet...

These are not all of the problems with XP - as I said, I won't even get started on other M$ systems - but 'quality' products do not come with as many security holes as XP does... and these are only some of the flaws found thus far.

Windows NT4.0 is up to Service Pack 7!!!! Seven patches so far to fix flaws in NT!!!

Now, even with this small amount of info I have provided, how anyone can say M$ produce 'quality' products is beyond me!

- S

Vicious_2003
Jan 15th, 2003, 10:36 PM
Well I said id report if I had problems with my X Box so here it is. I was playing Shenmue 2 yesterday. I was playing for about a good hour, to an hour and a half and it froze . Pissed me off because I was hitting it big on the one hit stands and had quite a bit of money built up. Is this a universal problem with the X Box (I know its not the games because this is the second time it has happened sense I bought it and the first time was with a brand new game (Jet Set Radio Future). Any ways is it a universal problem with all X Box systems or should I return mine for a new one before its too late ?. Any help on this would be appreciated.

Also to continue the original subject........ Id just like to point out to Spank-A-Thon that as fair as the good people at this forum are, it IS STILL a PS2 forum. Your not going to see many people agree with me necessarily about Sonys downfalls such as the controllers being rather cheaply made in comparison to X Box's because I think most of us here are pretty big Sony fans. Im still a Sony fan myself im just trying something new for a while. (If I had the money id buy both of them but ive got other costs to tend to on a small budget) Also yes Sonys online strategy is very different from Microsoft's but that doesn't change the fact that Live is more enjoyable (Opinion) due to Sony's online servers (Controlled by game developers) being absolutely pathetic in most cases. My argument is just that Sony made a bad choice in forcing game developers to deal with online play. Because clearly they are not up to the task (Ahem....Zipper for the most part. Madden online seems allright to me, i applaud EA Sports for that). Also as for the controller abuse issue. Ill admit thier were times when I should have controlled my temper but ive seen shows on how companies decide on controller design and abuse such as throwing is something they are supposed to test and compensate for. Sony knows people are going to throw controllers a bit, hell the kid playing SOCOM in the commercial throws his controller. And I think it puts X Box in a better light because they made their controllers sturdier, not a big thing, just a positive I was pointing out. Thats all. And to deny that is to be a fool, If you think sonys are made just a s sturdy, or that they are better made than have clearly never held an X Box controller

Harry
Jan 15th, 2003, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by Weapon_XZ84

Well I said id report if I had problems with my X Box so here it is. I was playing Shenmue 2 yesterday. I was playing for about a good hour, to an hour and a half and it froze . Pissed me off because I was hitting it big on the one hit stands and had quite a bit of money built up. Is this a universal problem with the X Box (I know its not the games because this is the second time it has happened sense I bought it and the first time was with a brand new game (Jet Set Radio Future). Any ways is it a universal problem with all X Box systems or should I return mine for a new one before its too late ?. Any help on this would be appreciated.

Also to continue the original subject........ Id just like to point out to Spank-A-Thon that as fair as the good people at this forum are, it IS STILL a PS2 forum. Your not going to see many people agree with me necessarily about Sonys downfalls such as the controllers being rather cheaply made in comparison to X Box's because I think most of us here are pretty big Sony fans. Im still a Sony fan myself im just trying something new for a while. (If I had the money id buy both of them but ive got other costs to tend to on a small budget) Also yes Sonys online strategy is very different from Microsoft's but that doesn't change the fact that Live is more enjoyable (Opinion) due to Sony's online servers (Controlled by game developers) being absolutely pathetic in most cases. My argument is just that Sony made a bad choice in forcing game developers to deal with online play. Because clearly they are not up to the task (Ahem....Zipper for the most part. Madden online seems allright to me, i applaud EA Sports for that). Also as for the controller abuse issue. Ill admit thier were times when I should have controlled my temper but ive seen shows on how companies decide on controller design and abuse such as throwing is something they are supposed to test and compensate for. Sony knows people are going to throw controllers a bit, hell the kid playing SOCOM in the commercial throws his controller. And I think it puts X Box in a better light because they made their controllers sturdier, not a big thing, just a positive I was pointing out. Thats all. And to deny that is to be a fool, If you think sonys are made just a s sturdy, or that they are better made than have clearly never held an X Box controller

I unfortunately have no time to write a long answer, and I see many answered finely to your thread...

I'll just say that on my Xbox I got many serious problems with Morrowind (mostly software related) and it froze on any game I played at least once - including Splinter Cell, Halo and Shenmue II. We had similar problems on a PAL Xbox.

I do believe all these issues are caused by the same weaknesses that's easy to notice playing a game on a good "IBM" PC running any version of Windows. So, Weapon, you should just get used to save often ;)

P.s. I couldn't resist saying something about your last statement. I sincerely consider the Xbox's controller awful - stupidly big (but with the same number of buttons of the Dual Shock), stupidly heavy, stupidly designed : I really don't know how they could release a console with that kind of official controller. It's good you like it, but sincerely, the Dual Shock is one of the greatest gifts ever made to the gaming community.

Vicious_2003
Jan 15th, 2003, 11:26 PM
I respect your opinion of course, we are all entitled to it. I guess controllers are in the eye of the beholder. I prefer a controller than fills out my hands. With the dual shock I hold it with just my fingers because its too small for my liking. And I wasnt really reffering to button placement or anything. I have no problem with the dual shocks or the X Box's button placement. Just how easily broken they are. I know tons of people who own PS2s and nearly all of them have broken thier fair shair of dual shocks. And if the orignal controller is too big for your size of hands then try the S type, its just about the same size as a dual shock . And (Time to run this point into the ground) might I point out its a higher quality than the daul shock (Ok Im done with the ranting on controller quality). As for the freezing thig...well.......it sucks, shame on Mr. Gates for that one. I dont recall ever having any non softwear related freezing trouble with my PS2. And especially for games where you cant save at will (Like the RE games where you have to have a ribbon and get to a save point) the freezing thing will be cause for some serious controller abuse. I guess these controllers will really be put to the test.

Nelo Angelo
Jan 15th, 2003, 11:27 PM
I do admit my Xbox has given me the disc error at times when I'm playing Ghost Recon. It's real annoying I should say.

It sucks you had to sell your PS2 to buy an Xbox but oh well.

Harry: Get controller S. :o
Or is that the controller you were talking about?

dan da man
Jan 16th, 2003, 11:08 AM
on the subject, ive been playing on splinter cell, and it has froze twice now what realy got me angry because i got far without saving, so i decided to take it back.
weapon take the game back like me, it will only get worse trust me;)

and harry i think the xbox controller isnt stupid at all its realy good IMO, yes but the dual shock is the best.

goodman
Jan 16th, 2003, 11:15 AM
Metroid Prime actually froze once on me, i was surprised, but dont think ive ever had a ps2 game freeze on me, and would be surprised if Zelda does on the Cube when it comes out....

ToxicUK
Jan 16th, 2003, 02:47 PM
Just to make my point on this topic

1 - The SONY Controllers are the best controllers in the world. Not too bulky, heavy or silly looking they offer a good quality all around controller for everyday use and they dont break easily.

2 - I think Live is a service like all other bad m$ products - you pay for it - it dopesnt work, you pay for it gaain - it dosent work.

3 - What was the point in that?

4 - You can buy a multitap for both ports.

5 - Um, i hate to say this to you - but have u ever USED A QUALITY M$ PRODUCT?

6 - ****************************************** - Profanity cut out. It is NOT MADE TO BREAK. They only break if u throw em, knock em off shelves or treat em badly and the lense can be cleaned easily with a lens cleaner or manually and u just have to clean it for dust every now and then.


OVERALL: You amde a bad choice on my part. The XBOX is the console with the bad looks, the bad controllers and the bad games.:roll:

dan da man
Jan 16th, 2003, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by ToxicUK




2 - I think Live is a service like all other bad m$ products - you pay for it - it dopesnt work, you pay for it gaain - it dosent work.


OVERALL: You amde a bad choice on my part. The XBOX is the console with the bad looks, the bad controllers and the bad games.:roll:

to number 2 xbox live is the best u can get for online sconsoles.

and the OVERALL: bit just souds you are a ps2 fanboy, XBox is not bad looking at all, the controller is nice and where the hell did u get that idea from the games are bad:peoples:
ever played any of them?
its sounds like to me u never owned a xbox so u woulnd know, they were realy silly comments u made! they just sound like u HATE xbox!

KraftSLU
Jan 16th, 2003, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by ToxicUK

Just to make my point on this topic

1 - The SONY Controllers are the best controllers in the world. Not too bulky, heavy or silly looking they offer a good quality all around controller for everyday use and they dont break easily.


Well thats a great opinion and all, but I love the feel of my s-type controller over my dual shock, my DC controller, and my roommates gamecube controller. Love games on all three systems, love the stype the most. But then again, you won't see me running around claiming that it is the best controller in the world for everyone.

Originally posted by ToxicUK
2 - I think Live is a service like all other bad m$ products - you pay for it - it dopesnt work, you pay for it gaain - it dosent work.


Hmm... actually my experience went "pay for it once - it works wonderfully and I've never had a problem with it" And oddly enough that is the response I get from most people who have xbox live, that it is a totally wonderful system.... oddly enough, your message sounds like it comes from someone that hates MS for no reason and would just want to bash their live service because that is what they think is cool to do.

Originally posted by ToxicUK
4 - You can buy a multitap for both ports.


It kills me that when people attack the xbox because you have to buy the dvd playback kit, but when the xbox supporters come back and say "you only have 2 ports" the ps2 fanboys say "you can buy multitaps"... so it is ok to spend money on ps2 to overcome it's shortfallings, but it isn't ok for xbox owners to do the same? Before you go and be all hypocritical next time, why not think to yourself "all systems have shortcomings that can be overcome by buying something usually. Xbox, it is the DVD remote. PS2, it is the multitap, memory cards, and online adapter. GC, it is the online adapter and memory cards.

Originally posted by ToxicUK
5 - Um, i hate to say this to you - but have u ever USED A QUALITY M$ PRODUCT?


Well, let me run down the list. I am running my computer on windows 2000 pro, which has been absolutely amazing. Let me check my clock, yup. It has been on without locking up for 5 months now, since I moved it to my apartment. I run a website off of an MS IIS server which has been totally dependable and hasn't had any problems. All my school papers have be written flawlessly on Word, I have set up databases for people with Access. I use Visual C++ to write all my programs for class and for commercial use. VB is also a wonderful program, in fact, the entire visual studio is great! My palm is run by MS Windows CE which hasn't let me down. And last but not least, I have yet to have a single problem with my xbox, the games MS made for them, or my xbox live service.

mark0™
Jan 16th, 2003, 04:13 PM
Dont take all the Anti-MS feelings here to mean MS makes shitty products that will never work, they're just not as good as they could be. I run XP, sure i've had a few glitches but it runs very well for me.

Oh and thanks for the links Spank.

Spank-A-Thon
Jan 16th, 2003, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by mark0

Dont take all the Anti-MS feelings here to mean MS makes shitty products that will never work, they're just not as good as they could be. I run XP, sure i've had a few glitches but it runs very well for me.

Oh and thanks for the links Spank. No probs.

Don't get me 100% wrong though - M$ do make some excellent products - most notably the Office products and the Visual Studio tools - just to balance things out a little.

- S

Vicious_2003
Jan 16th, 2003, 07:34 PM
LOL, I knew it was a mistake saying that you could always expect quality with Microsoft. I withdraw the statement. I dont own a whole lotta MS stuff but what I own has worked well...most of the time :laugh: . And this thread was meant to be a discussion on the pros and cons of the X Box and PS2. So far Ive found it rather enlightening, thanks for all the input guys and gals. But bottom line I was happy with my PS2 and now im happy with my X Box, in the end I suppose thats what it comes down to, as long as you can say you had fun with the machine and it wasnt a waste of money, it was a good experience. I just rented Jedi Outcast and Phantom Crash for my X Box, JO is an outstanding game so far, haven't broken into PC yet. And also to the person that said that PS2's arent made to break and if they do that means you mistreated it. I assure you I did NOT mistreat my PS2, I cherished the damn thing. Never played it for too long at a time, never through it around or anything. When I traveled with it I used a protective carrying case. Maybe I just had a case of bad luck and got a bum system who knows. But the fact that I know 2 other people who had the same problem with theirs kinda argues against the bad luck scenario dont you think. Also I dont want ppl thinking I got rid of my PS2 just to get an X Box. The fact that my memory card unformatted itself over night somehow (Lost all my game saves , didn't feel like going through and unlocking things again in my games, rendering them worthless now) and the fact that the controllers couldn't handle my temper were all contributing factors to my selling it off.

ssjtrunks13
Jan 16th, 2003, 07:39 PM
That's cool. but if you had kept your PS2 you could be enjoying DBz: Budokai. but you might not be into that. I just felt like saying something.

Vicious_2003
Jan 17th, 2003, 01:16 AM
Dont worry I rented it when it came out and beat it a few times. It was a pretty good game. Im a big DBZ fan myself, as youve probably allready noticed :laugh:

ssjtrunks13
Jan 17th, 2003, 04:29 PM
I already have two breakthrough capsules after playing it for only about 2 weeks. I did see all the signs of a huge DBZ fan, but I must have been blinded by the fact you sold your PS2 to get a X Box.