Homosexuality.

[happy_doughnut]

Just trying to bring a bit more of interaction to this place :) I think a new debate would be nice.

Anyhow, what are your takes on homosexuals ?
Is it right or is it wrong ? Do you agree with the theory that states that some people are born naturaly " fay " ?
What do you guys think ?
Let's see some thought expression now.

[Sid554]

Originally posted by Mena
Just trying to bring a bit more of interaction to this place :) I think a new debate would be nice.

Anyhow, what are your takes on homosexuals ?
Is it right or is it wrong ? Do you agree with the theory that states that some people are born naturaly " fay " ?
What do you guys think ?
Let's see some thought expression now.


I'm not even going to touch the right or wrong issue, as this is a virtual minefield of religious zeolotry, social mores, and flat-out ignorance.
I do believe that the theory of being born gay carries some creadance, though. Think of it this way-Why would a person "decide" to be gay and be open about it if they were aware of the fact that it would force them to face widespread anger, hostility, and possible violence? This doesn't sound to me like something a sensible person would do.
But who knows? Maybe I'm totally wrong.

[Beretta55]

its not the right thing to do its against the lord.....but is there really any way you could stop them? i really dont have a problem with people that are gay if you be mean to them and pick on them. i find it mean its still a human being. i dont care if your gay,stright,bi whatever its what you want to do then fine. and one more thing its your decions in your life and i cant change it. but its something i would not want to do i will tell you that.

[jbaseley]

i dont think you should bring up topics like this becuase people like myself have very biased opinions on this issue.

[Black Heart]

I can't see why usually people have so many things to say against homosexual or bisexual persons.
It's their personal choice and unless they act like they want to show at every cost, they must be respected for it. I don't like narcissistic persons in general, so whatever they are, also if someone is straight, I don't like to see people who want to "force" me to share their tastes or points of view. Other than that, I think they're free to choose and I don't like stupid people who use the word "gay" as an offence. As I don't like many other offences often used without thinking about it.

They're perfectly normal persons, who can have the same feelings, they same ideas, the same emotions as anybody else. Why keeping on denying this basic aspect?
Stop considering them freaks or monsters. You don't have to agree with them, but this doesn't mean they're not "normal".

[Ice Cold]

You don't have to agree with them, but this doesn't mean they're not "normal".

So you are saying that if you woke up, ate your breakfast, and told your parents you were doing to screw your best friend...you would consider this normal. You must live in a pretty hectic enviroment.

[Black Heart]

Originally posted by Ice Cold


So you are saying that if you woke up, ate your breakfast, and told your parents you were doing to screw your best friend...you would consider this normal. You must live in a pretty hectic enviroment.

I don't know what is your relationship with your parents, but I'm not homo or bi, and anyway I'm not telling them even if I'm going to screw a girl :sarcasm:
And I don't think this is the problem and the point of the debate, sorry.
Don't quote if you're missing the point of the post in which the quotation was.

[Hylas]

There's nothing wrong with them. I think lesbians and gays are normal people, even if we don't share the same "tastes" regarding love and this kind of things.
I had some friends who were gay, and they were the only male persons I could talk to regarding personal problems. Maybe because they have this great sensibility, maybe because they are so gentle and don't find stupid to hear someone else's problems, and maybe because they have so much troubles in relations with others, but they were very good at listening to me and giving suggestions.
I don't think people shuold judge if they don't have a personal experience on this matter. If you do, you'll end telling crap on the basis of stupid stereotypes.

[BlackThornn]

I'm perfectly fine with homosexuals and homosexuality. Especially when it's between two hot chicks. Or three. :D Bisexuality is fine by me too.

If it wasn't "right" then God wouldn't have made only certain people with that orientation. I believe that some are "born" naturally fay, but the environment in which one grows up also plays a part. There is no issue of it being right or wrong, it's nature, and therefore ordained by God, and therefore right. All these religious zealots are nothing but ignorant fools.. and the people who follow them for the most part are nothing but misguided fools.

I tell ya, I see stuff about these hate crimes on the news.. I want to go out, start a gang that does like.. counter hate crimes. Y'know.. "Trailer park put to the torch, dozens dead. Thousands of dollars worth of Beer presumed lost." or "Southern Baptist Minister found hung by the testicles, more at 11." I know this sounds a little extreme, but at least to me it makes some sense. Moreso than "Innocent kid found beaten to death with "***" carved onto chest."

What I hate though, is homosexuals who talk about "straight" people like we were the ones who were "abnormal". Not to say that homosexuals are that abnormal anymore but 'our' sexual orientation is what propagates the freakin' species. I was out clubbing with Tina (fiancee') a couple of nights ago, and we got to kissin'.. then this complete flipping fruitbasket with a lisp that made me think a cobra was next to me was all "Ewww. Take it outsssssssssside!". Meanwhile he was macking on his own little boytoy. -_- I would have liked nothing better than to have dragged that little freak outside and beaten him to a pulp, but Tina was all embarrassed and was tugging me away. Grr......

[The Rhythmosaur]

If I may add my humble point of view:

First, poeple who don´t want to faced such a topic, they DON´T HAVE TO. There are enough other things to talk about at this site, so what´s the heck? So leave us talking here peacefully!

Homosexual people very often had a trauma wich affected their souls somewhen in there lifes. In my eyes, they are victims, not criminals.
Telling them, it is against the Lord what they do (it is according to the bible, I know this book) brings them just in a deeper conflict to their souls.
A friend of mine is gay (I´m not) and moslem. He is deeply unhappy with this fact, because he feels unable to change it and punished by god. If ever his family or somebody gets to know about this feelings (he´s a penpal of mine) he will be socially ruined, thrown out, they would never exept him as a human being. Because of his homosexuality, he never had any sexual contact to anybody, nor a homosexual friend.

How could somebody be so cruel to tell him, he´s doing wrong because of his feelings?

If you as men woke up in a woman´s body and homosexuality was forbidden, would you kill yourselves or be abstinent all your life?

We believe in a god that has mercy. And he is the only one to know a person in an out, including his thougts. I am shure, human law or not, him allone is the one to juge about it, and he won´t punish somebody for something he is not reliable for...

But this is just MY opinion... and as somebody said above:
I might as well be totally wrong...

The Rhythmosaur

[BlackThornn]

Against the bible.. Idunno about that.

There's something like 6 references to homosexuality at all in the bible, right..? 4 or so condemning it? Then there's something like 200 references and condemnations for heterosexuality?

I don't put any stock in the bible anyway. It was written by Men. Not God.

[The Rhythmosaur]

I don´t know if I should believe it, but some people say, god inspired the writers of the bible so they wrote his words and not their´s . Okay, Muhammed said the same as he wrote Qu´ran. But this is off topic. The are are even homosexual people who believe in it, and they really suffer. That´s the point I am aiming at.

Rhythmo

[BlackThornn]

Unfortunately that is the case.. That should be enough proof.

God is merciful, but inattentive.. Matters after birth he doesn't intervene in.. at least that's my belief.

Since God is merciful, he wouldn't have such a devout follower and good person (hopefully) be in such pain, if it weren't right. There are different skin colors, there are different facial features, there are different sexual orientations. It's all part of the grand scheme of diversity.

[The Rhythmosaur]

Yes, I think, that´s right. But think about Hiob, this poor guy, that was punished for nothing just to test his faith - according to the bible. He lost everything: Wealth, women, children, house and cattle, just to prove to the devil that his faith was not to break even in such a tragedy...

[kamari-ice]

This is sad.
Leave the people alone, they don't do you nothing.
Geez, this thread shouldn't exist.
Ya'll are wrong, if thats what they want to do, let them do it.
If you were white, and you dated a afghanistan and had kids with them, people would start saying things about you.
They will start posting things, like I think thats wrong.
Well you know what, it might be wrong to you, but to them it could mean that they love them.
Or if you were white, and you dated a black person, then they will say something about you too.
But no, people have to be rude, and tease somebody for what they are.
They also might not like to see things like other people saying, thats wrong.
If you liked a midget, you wouldn't want people saying that that is wrong.
I can't believe mods are letting this happen.
Leave peoples lives alone.
My sister has many male friends that are gay.
They are nice people, and ya'll are immature to post this.

[Cannibal Clown]

I kinda agree with Kamari-Ice. He has a point with the whole idea mof the thread itself. But i believe that one of the reasons we have these forums is to get the opinios of others, and to see the side's points, and thoughts of others around us. If it offends someone, then let it out, and express yourself, but the issue of homosexuality is a part of our everyday lives wether you think so or not. So except it, and move on. I personally don't know anyone who is gay, but i still say that they are people just like us and deserve their dignity for who they are.

[Sleazy P Martini]

I wasn't going to touch this thread at first but oh well. My wife works with several gay men, and they are flaming. They talk very openly about their sex lives and they ogle men like candy. In public too! And then they turn around and say they don't want to be steriotyped. I guess if I said I was cool with it I'd be a hypocrite. Because I don't like to be around them. It's disturbing.
(by them I mean my wifes cooworkers)

[The Rhythmosaur]

Yesssss, that´s right. How could we had learned your point of view if we did not open this thread? Don´t you think, a thread like this - just talking, changeing and discussing ideas about it - is a step to understand those people? Or - at least - respect em and let em live their lifes?
Your words contain thruth and wisdom, but shuting up is no solution. Ignorance is what kills others. Changeing opinions and facts is the best way against ignorance, I think. Come on, say what you think about it...

Rhythmo

[Ice Cold]

The other day my sister was approched by a gay customer at work. The gay guy asked her who the hot blond guy was. The guy was talking about my sister's boyfriend!!! She said it was her boyfriend and he went on to ask if she was interested in a threesome! Can you believe this?! THis is while standing in line at the grocerystore.

I know all gays aren't this low, but their sometimes openess about personal matters is flat out repulsive.

[The Rhythmosaur]

Oh dear! Black sheep like this you find with heteroes, too! Who cares, if men behave like this in relation to a women! In contrairy, we feel cool to do so (me not). Gays that have contact with me know: As long as they behave like ordinary people and do their pleasures only with equaly minded, they got no probelms with me and vice versa. What you discribe is just what many women have to face daily.
Even our german army turned to admit, that a normaly behaving soldier with special sexual preverences can be a soldier as long as he does not affect the duty and the social life of soldiers within the barracs. I know that precisely because I served at the medical service. In former times it was a reason not to serve to be gay.

[Joe]

Anyhow, what are your takes on homosexuals ?
Is it right or is it wrong ? Do you agree with the theory that states that some people are born naturaly " fay " ?
What do you guys think ?

Hmm... Good question. My general take on homosexuals is that they are human, just like me and you. There is nothing wrong with them. They just have a different taste in what we call the ordinary. Homosexuals are alright by me. The Christian Church may have a problem with them, but I do not. They can do what they want to do. And whatever that is is fine by men.

I do not believe that people are born "gay". This is because I think that everything that we do has an outcome on our life, and out lives are not planned out by God. But instead, God lays out different paths for us, and we choose the path. So, a person might be born gay, but I think it is more of a thing of experimentation (at the beginning). Then if the person likes it, they will continue on living that way.

Is being homosexual right or wrong? Personally, I do not think it is. However, that is not up to me to decide. I hold no grudge against them. Anybody can choose how they want to swing. But, God might not be so forgiving (or that's what church people want us to believe). The only thing that I hate about homosexuals is those damn "Gay Pride" parades. Look, people know that you are gay. You do not have to have a freakin' parade to express it! I can't stand homosexuals who think that they have to prove that they are gay by dressing up and doing those parades. Do you see us hetero sexuals having parades? No, because that would be wrong because minorities always get to do and have more things (in a public or media sense, ie. Black History month, Women's TV, but that is a whole different thread. ;) )

So... Yeah. Being homosexual is alright by me. Just don't rub it in people's faces.

[happy_doughnut]

Originally posted by goodman
Out of curiosity, Mena, what do you think? I dont see any reason to respond to a topic that the person who created it doesnt even have a comment.


I have many comments, actually. It just like to reply to threads I make afterwards. :)

As far as my responce goes, well, here's my ' humble ' opinion :

As far as the laws of nature go, homosexuality is wrong, since the purpose of every living biological being is the perpetuation of their species. Homosexuality denies them that.

In the laws of man, homosexuality is both wrong and right, because the laws of man are completely plasmatic and pseudo-real, thus, obeyed only when man feels like doing so ( laws were created so that men would obtain some common social ' boundries ' that would deny them to do as they please, without regarding the consequences ). As a result, people who like homosexuality find it right, while people who are disgusted by it, call it wrong.

In short: One simply cannot categorize anything in this world as ' right ' or ' wrong ' because these are mere opinions. As different people, we all have our own distinct views on everything and cannot always reach a point that actually concludes something to be ' right ' or ' wrong' because we will not all agree. Therefore, I think, that the asnwer to Homosexuality being right or wrong cannot be answered in such a manner.

Personally, I don't agree with homosexuals, bisexuals ect. ect.
I just don't think it is the way things should be.
Of course, I don't go around hating them nor do I try to offend them, but personally, I cannot stand to be around people whom are like this. Honestly, they disgust me.
At many times, people say that I think in such a way because of my religion. Religion is very often brought into this matter. However, this isn't the case with me. I simply cannot be around them because I feel utterly uncomfortable.

With that being said, you can clearly see that I don't agree with their ways, and that I don't like them.
However, if they choose to be that way, that is none of my concern. They can go ahead and do as they please.
Don't get me wrong, I don't ' hate ' them nor do I want to offend them. But what can I say ? I'm an open person this way. I just like to keep my distance.

[Rei]

Originally posted by Mena




Of course, I don't go around hating them nor do I try to offend them, but personally, I cannot stand to be around people whom are like this. Honestly, they disgust me.


Disgust is a strong word. If you really don't want to sound offensive as you said above, I suggest you to not use this word, because it really sounds like if in the end you're offending them.

[happy_doughnut]

Yes, it is a strong word, and I am fully aware of that.
Let me rephrase that.

When I see a homosexual ( you know, like when a guy in dressed like a girl or vice versa ) I just look away so that I won't allow my mind to drift off into offending words.
However, when I see two people of the same sex dishing it out in public, I'm sorry but to me, that is disgustiing. Nowadays things like these are normal, but there are times when they stand there kissing each other ' hard-core ' and get stares, they get completely offended ! That is something that completely angers me. If they don't ( and this goes for anybody ) want the stares, then they should avoid doing things that would induce people to do actions such as those.

In the end, and I say this again, they can do whatever they please. I just like to stay away from people like this because it's just uncomforting for me and I'm not going to deny it nor go back on it.

[The Rhythmosaur]

(@Mena: Like you told me: You just read the last few...)
What I was trying to say a few posts ago was that most of them behave NORMALY - you don´t relize it unless they tell you. After we just had such an nice conversation (PM), imagine, I´d tell you, I was (I´m not)? Would you, as we call it in Germany, fall off all clouds? But is is possible, that somebody talking this way I do is gay. Most gays make in every day life no difference, only those who do propaganda for homosexuals in a negative way. But those want to provoke and enjoy the rumour they cause.

Ya Rhythmo

[Rei]

Well, I've known many homosexually oriented guys in my life and some of them are still good friends of mine.
I think many of them act like that only to show they don't have to hide themselves behind masks to be accepted. Knowing some of them personally, I'm sure this is the reason for many of them to act like that. You can find it annoying, yes I understand very well what you say, but straight people do the same thing all the time, but it's hard to notice because you categorize them as "normal".
This doesn't mean all straight people act like that, as it doesn't mean all homosexually oriented people act like that as well.
Depends on the person, but in some cases, like cases of gay people, it's more evident because you find them "strange" or different" from your usual experiences.

[The Rhythmosaur]

Exactely. That´s what I said before: Man act very often in that way in relation to women. We stare, we google, we kiss, we make obscene jokes and only a few women care. But who´s gonna listening to them - it´s "normal"! Rhythmo

[Ice Cold]

I have to say I see your point. It's not many times that women come up to me and tell me my butt looks cute or anything (darn).

It's just that being a male, I'm not prepared to be approched that way. From a male or female.

Well my final comment is: I don't necesarily approve of homosexuallity, but it is not my right to condemn them either.

[The Rhythmosaur]

Live and let live...

[jbaseley]

what bible do you read it mustnt be the holy bible because you seem to have an idea that homesexuality is fine by God when in actual fact it is clearly stated in the bible as sin and doesnt God hate sin.

[Infernal Mass]

http://www.humorbomb.com/vf-pics/pic/rknigh.jpg

[Sid554]

Originally posted by jbaseley
what bible do you read it mustnt be the holy bible because you seem to have an idea that homesexuality is fine by God when in actual fact it is clearly stated in the bible as sin and doesnt God hate sin.

I thought God didn't hate at all

[Sleazy P Martini]

Originally posted by Kabuki Magnifico
http://www.humorbomb.com/vf-pics/pic/rknigh.jpg
ROTFL :laugh: :laugh: Where did you find that pic of Yoda's parents?

[Sid554]

Kabuki, wtf is that?

[jbaseley]

hed doesnt hate the people he hates their sin.

[Joe]

God hates the sins people commit.
God condemns people.

Jesus loves all.

But aren't God and Jesus the same thing?

[Black Heart]

I don't think we should enter religious matters, at least if we're not experts enough to quote Bible without misunderstanding and stuff like that.
Maybe it's better to keep this more on a personal plan. I don't think people here are prepared enough to drag religion into this debate.

[BlackThornn]

..That pic is wrong in so many ways! *falls over laughing*

[Gadzoox]

Originally posted by Kabuki Magnifico
to each their own

Couldn't agee more.

[kupoartist]

Personally I've always taken science as the truth. Therefore i've always tried to find scientifc reasoning behind "phenomena".

Personally, I do not believe being Gay is somthing that people aquire. Its somthing that develops during birth, due to the effects of certain hormones on the brain (ie. Female Hormones). Its true that in many cases of birth lots of different Hormones are thrown at the body, a few weeks after conception the brain can be effected by these. The effects vary differently. In some guys it could simply promote shyness for instance. It depends mostly on where the brain is effected: A number of studies have shown that in Homosexuals, the shape of a certain area of the brain (no idea of a name) is closer to that of the Female brain rather than the male brain.

Personally I'd say experiences are only effectual Catalysts. Sure they intensify the "problem", or bring it out altogether, but they are not the reason behind it ever occuring.

Oh and as a personal note, I have a cousin who is gay. The idea that he could ever be evil is beyond me. The suffering that was evident as he grew up must have been pretty ****ty, and the "people" (- that word was edited btw) who continually knocked him down because of his own inner turmoil have a lot to answer for.

[Mosdevious]

Yeah to each there own, just keep it away from me!

God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve!

[Ice Cold]

LOL:laugh: Never heard that one before:laugh:

[happy_doughnut]

Originally posted by Mosdevious
Yeah to each there own, just keep it away from me!

God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve!

:laugh: :laugh:

Haha. That, I think , is the funniest thing that has been said in this thread so far ! :laugh:

[kamari-ice]

I didn't know that Kermet was like that.
:laugh: :laugh:
This is like the best thread, I cannot believe this.

[kamari-ice]

Me and my sis was cracking up at that muphet <kermet> and that bunny.
That was funny.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Sid554]

Originally posted by Mosdevious
Yeah to each there own, just keep it away from me!

God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve!


How is your post anything but utter contradiction?

[Lava42000]

Hate the Sin not the Person. Homosexuals are not born the way they are, they choose to be that way, just because they are that way does not mean you have to hate them. I personally don't like homosexuality but I do not hate homosexuals, I hate homosexuality. Hate the Sin not the Person.

[happy_doughnut]

Yes, Goodman is right... again O.O''

Originally posted by Sid554



How is your post anything but utter contradiction?

About this... if you think about it, it is no contradiction at all. Mosdevious simply stated that everyone should be as their ' heart desires ', but that he doesn't want them ' close to him ' ( at least, that's how I enterpreted it ) .
Basically, it's what I say just in much fewer words ( I wish I could be more succinct sometimes :disturb: ) . So, therefore, he is not contradicting himself, for he is not reinstating the opposite of what was priorly said.

[Sid554]

Perhaps contradiction was the wrong word. It just seemed to me like he was saying "Do your own thing" or words to that effect, in the first line of his post and ....... Oh forget it. Kabuki's right, I do need to lighten up.

[Gadzoox]

*patpats Sid554; and hands him a pair of hover boots!* :D

[Sid554]

Originally posted by Gadzoox
*patpats Sid554; and hands him a pair of hover boots!* :D


:laugh:

[happy_doughnut]

Heh heh. There ya go ! :laugh:
Hmm... perhaps I should get a life and stop playing ' post detective ' :laugh:

BTW: *whisper* Kabuki is never right about anythin' . Trust me on that one :D

[Infernal Mass]

Originally posted by Mena


BTW: *whisper* Kabuki is never right about anythin' . Trust me on that one :D

http://www.manifestation.org/~ill/images/funny/coleman.jpg

[Ice Cold]

Hate the Sin not the Person. Homosexuals are not born the way they are, they choose to be that way, just because they are that way does not mean you have to hate them. I personally don't like homosexuality but I do not hate homosexuals, I hate homosexuality. Hate the Sin not the Person.


I'm with you all the way Lava.

[BlackThornn]

Uh, Ice and Lava.. you're wrong. Just gonna say that much.

All Homosexuals do not all just "choose" to be as much. It has not been PROVEN that it is a factor that is included from birth, but it is surely not a matter of choice, or there would be about a quarter as many out there. It's not a sin, otherwise god wouldn't have made them that way FROM BIRTH.

Dislike it if ya will (I know I'm pretty uncomfortable.. and if any dude came on to me he'd be missing teeth after the encounter..) but don't hate it. That's just a sign of ignorance. People hate what they don't understand.

[Ice Cold]

Nobody is hating anybody. I hate the fact that their is a gay factor in the world. It doesn't help anyone. But I don't hate gays. I don't approve of their actions, but they are humans with souls.

I can't hate people that disagree with my faith. No one would EVER want to be a Christian including myself if hating those who had a different mindset was put up with.

All Homosexuals do not all just "choose" to be as much. It has not been PROVEN that it is a factor that is included from birth, but it is surely not a matter of choice, or there would be about a quarter as many out there. It's not a sin, otherwise god wouldn't have made them that way FROM BIRTH.

You say it is not proven to from birth, but then go on and say that God made them that way from birth?:peoples:

[BlackThornn]

I go on to state my opinions, opinions based on having friends who DIDN'T WANT to be gay, but in retrospect had tendancies toward that from when they were children. In a tight knit group of five friends two turned out gay, and they didn't freaking want to be; and we were all raised practically the same.

They did not choose thier sexual orientation. THAT is where I state you being wrong. Just because lazy scientists haven't managed to give irrefutable proof yet (they're on fundamentalist payrolls or they just don't bloody care) doesn't mean it's not true.

[Lava42000]

Hey Blackthorn, You can relate anything you want to a "disease" a "chemical inbalance" or "psychological problems from birth" all you want, those are just excuses people use. My opinion is part from the bible and part what i would say. I Hate when people sin, Homosexuality is a sin, therefore i hate when people do homosexual things, but i do not hate the person for that. Homosexuality is a sin:"Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin." Leviticus 19:22 NLT And if any of u arent familiar with how that was quoted its from the bible also known as the book of GOD. The definition of detestable is "Worthy of Hatred" therefore I hate homosexuality.

[kupoartist]

Originally posted by Ice Cold
You say it is not proven to from birth, but then go on and say that God made them that way from birth?:peoples:

lol. the classic ignorance that ****s me completely off. God makes mistakes. except it.

[Lava42000]

Originally posted by BlackThornn
I go on to state my opinions, opinions based on having friends who DIDN'T WANT to be gay, but in retrospect had tendancies toward that from when they were children. In a tight knit group of five friends two turned out gay, and they didn't freaking want to be; and we were all raised practically the same.

They did not choose thier sexual orientation. THAT is where I state you being wrong. Just because lazy scientists haven't managed to give irrefutable proof yet (they're on fundamentalist payrolls or they just don't bloody care) doesn't mean it's not true.

If your friends didn't want to be gay, they didn't have to be. We don't need scientists to tell us that homosexuality is not a disease. Addiction, is a disease. Depression is a disease. Homosexuality is a choice. And saying that someone is ignorant for not "understanding a homosexuals mindset" is ignorance in itself because it is refusing to be open minded to everyones opinions. The bottom line is that homosexuals choose to be who they are; I don't care how many childhood friends you have who turned out to be gay even though they "didn't freaking want to be", they did want to be or else they wouldn't have become homosexual!

[BlackThornn]

The bible was written by men. Not god. These guys did not want to be gay and they were not raised gay. They spent years hiding it and trying to "overcome" it like it was a test from God, which is what they'd come to believe. Religions brainwashing was making them reject the way God made 'em. How could they be making excuses about something they don't want? Why would they CHOOSE something they don't want?

Artist: Shh. Don't say that, the universe will end. :D

[BlackThornn]

Originally posted by Lava42000


If your friends didn't want to be gay, they didn't have to be. We don't need scientists to tell us that homosexuality is not a disease. Addiction, is a disease. Depression is a disease. Homosexuality is a choice. And saying that someone is ignorant for not "understanding a homosexuals mindset" is ignorance in itself because it is refusing to be open minded to everyones opinions. The bottom line is that homosexuals choose to be who they are; I don't care how many childhood friends you have who turned out to be gay even though they "didn't freaking want to be", they did want to be or else they wouldn't have become homosexual!

Don't you be saying what other people are thinking, you little zealot. You don't know. And you didn't see the ****ing anguish these guys went through before they finally accepted HOW THEY WERE BORN.

[Lava42000]

Blackthorn, the bottom line is, if they said they didn't want to be gay, but they turned out gay anyway, they lied to you when they told u they didnt want to be! I could tell someone "I didn't want to kill them I swear!" but then i still killed them, that is my choice.

[BlackThornn]

Originally posted by Kabuki Magnifico
:laugh:

the reluctant homosexuals..that's some funny stuff.

What, you think every gay guy ends up like he was born and raised in polk street? Societal reprecussions alone are usually enough to make anyone not want to be gay, let alone that we were all raised with the "goal of life" being a wife & kids in mind, and now that's unattainable for 'em. It's not really that funny, Kabuki.

[BlackThornn]

Originally posted by Lava42000
Blackthorn, the bottom line is, if they said they didn't want to be gay, but they turned out gay anyway, they lied to you when they told u they didnt want to be! I could tell someone "I didn't want to kill them I swear!" but then i still killed them, that is my choice.

Impossible to lie when you are practically brothers with a person, and you see the pain and conflict every day.

Bottom line is: You're wrong, and you've been brainwashed.

And I know this is inappropriate for the forum, but you are lucky that this isn't a debate ROOM instead of a forum, otherwise you'd be in a world of hurt for even implying that you would harm my friends.

[Ice Cold]

I go on to state my opinions, opinions based on having friends who DIDN'T WANT to be gay, but in retrospect had tendancies toward that from when they were children. In a tight knit group of five friends two turned out gay, and they didn't freaking want to be; and we were all raised practically the same.

You have had a direct experiance with homosexuallity, I have not. I am basing my opinions on principles, not experiance. I have told you how I felt, and will leave it at that. I can do nothing more.

In the world there is homosexuallity. There is nothing I can do about it but tell you what the Bible says. THis thread is a great debate and need more ideas like this.

[Lava42000]

Blackthorn, this may be kinda blunt, but if your friends each have a d*ck then they can have a wife and kids. It is their choice whether or not to like men or women! Do not try to bombard me with all that "your narrow-minded" crap, people have their own free will, its always been that way and hopfully it always will be. I am not dissing gays, i am just saying they have a choice, i think the choice they make is wrong but do not think they are a bad person, they just made a bad choice. If a gay guy comes up to me and has a regular conversation with me then i'm cool with it, but if he starts hittin on me then i'm gonna hit him hard enough that the dream of a wife and children wont be reachable, gay or not!!

P.S.: I think kabuki is hilarious.

[Lava42000]

did i ever say anything about hurting your friends? it was a theoretical situation given to show that humans do have the characteristic of choice. i would not make any of this personal to anone, this is all in a general state of mind

[Reid]

This topic seems to be such a big issue all the time.

I think it would be great if people could just other people do what they want to do and leave it alone.

I went to a Christian school last year (even though I'm not much of a Christian :P) and one day a speaker in chapel (pretty much an assembly that discusses different topics) discussed how the media portrays lies, etc.

The guy actually seemed halfway intelligent until he brought up "some basic lies presented by the media", one of which being that "we should tolerate homosexuality".

Of course, over the course of the day talking to different people about it you really get to see all different types come out.

I'm of the mindset that whatever your sexual preference you're still a human being to be treated as a human being and respected as a human being.

You'd really be surprised (or maybe not) at the large amount of ignorant folk that believe that because someone is gay they should be subhuman, have no rights, even be killed.

I grew up in a fairly liberal household and have gay family members (not immediate however), so maybe it's just my background that makes me swing toward tolerance and fair judgement of all people.

Anyway, that's just my two cents.

[kupoartist]

Originally posted by Kabuki Magnifico
btw: i was luaghing at the fact that someone mention people being gay and not wanting to yet still being gay..what the hell is that about.

when you're constantly told somthing is evil, and will send you to hell, you'd try your best to push down the feelings that you naturally get, and pretend they don't exsist. Ultimately, that person will never suceed, and will either have to simply accept, or effectivly self-destruct by whatever means necessary. But as long as we don't see them turn to drugs, self-mutilation or suicide, its ok to call them evil right?

[Lava42000]

I do not believe that gays should be killed or anything of that nature, thats horrible. Like i said in my very first post about this, I hate the sin, if someone tries to force that sin upon me then i will not like that. But a person is a person no matter what, they can be the biggest gay in the world and worshp satan, never the less, they are still a person with a persons rights. We all have red blood and are composed of moslty the same organs, yes were all human, but this debate has turned into whether or not people have the choice to be gay. They do have the choice just as they would have to choice to worship satan.

[Infernal Mass]

Originally posted by the_artist


when you're constantly told somthing is evil, and will send you to hell, you'd try your best to push down the feelings that you naturally get, and pretend they don't exsist. Ultimately, that person will never suceed, and will either have to simply accept, or effectivly self-destruct by whatever means necessary. But as long as we don't see them turn to drugs, self-mutilation or suicide, its ok to call them evil right?




if somebody is going through all that they are mentally unsound.

[kupoartist]

Originally posted by Kabuki Magnifico
if somebody is going through all that they are mentally unsound.

Perhaps they are. But its only the people I mentioned who got them there.

[Reid]

I think that worshipping Satan and being gay are far too different choices to be comparing in that way.

[Lava42000]

Have any of you ever known any alcoholics or drug addicts? well maybe some of you know all the pain they go through and how they are actually chemically dependant on these things. I have seen my uncle go in and out of rehab and after two years finally get off of alcohol. He was able to do it because he didnt want to be an alcoholic anymore so he sought help. People outcasted him, people shunned him, people judged him on being an alcoholic so he got help and he beat it. Now you are trying to tell me that a homosexual cannot change what they are? they are not chemically dependant on anything. If a homosexual really didn't want to be homosexual then they would do something about it. If they truly did not want to be like that then they could get help. even if they were under suffereing from what other had done, if they deep down did not want to be gay they would be able to stop it. Homosexuals can choose!

[BlackThornn]

Originally posted by Lava42000
Blackthorn, this may be kinda blunt, but if your friends each have a d*ck then they can have a wife and kids. It is their choice whether or not to like men or women! Do not try to bombard me with all that "your narrow-minded" crap, people have their own free will, its always been that way and hopfully it always will be. I am not dissing gays, i am just saying they have a choice, i think the choice they make is wrong but do not think they are a bad person, they just made a bad choice. If a gay guy comes up to me and has a regular conversation with me then i'm cool with it, but if he starts hittin on me then i'm gonna hit him hard enough that the dream of a wife and children wont be reachable, gay or not!!


It is not thier choice wether or not to like men or women.

Could you go out and look at a guy, then up and say "Dude.. I wanna have hot kinky buttsex with that guy" just because you wanted to make a choice to do so? No. Hormonal impulses are not a matter of free will, they are a matter of completely subconcious factors of the brain, factors that are utterly out of human control. Maybe one day they'll have an "anti gay" pill, but that's in the distant future. For now, it's not a matter of choice.

As for Wife and Kids not being attainable.. Yah, sure.. they have the choice wether or not to drag some poor unsuspecting woman into a sham marriage, then make her life and whatever children's life (probably concieved through artifical ensemination or something) miserable for the rest of thier days, and basically bring NO additional happiness to the world.. But there's the whole factor of them wanting to not be at least a little happy, or not wanting to take another person down with 'em. One of them (named Daniel) has chosen to remain alone for all his life so far because he doesn't want to acknowledge his nature, but he doesn't want any woman to be harmed by making a farce relationship. THAT is a choice, but it's a choice to deny his NATURE in favor of CULTURE and his own ideals. He knows he's gay 'cause he gets turned on by men and not women, but he refuses to follow through with what his body is telling; he's now been diagnosed with unipolar depression, and looks like he's 40 when he's something like 28 because of all the stress and sadness in his life. That is not a choice that anyone would make.

[Lava42000]

thankyou kabuki

[Ice Cold]

Alright, this thread is getting pretty deep. Let me ask another question.

If you think homosexuallity is unavoidable, would it be wrong if you picked homosexuallity freely?

[Lava42000]

the stories of your friend are sad, i'm sorry, i wouldn't want anyone to go through something like that. But maybe gays arent strong enough to change. One of my friends used to be really turned on by one of out teachers, and what did he do? trained himself to not think about her like that and not like her anymore, and wouldnt ya know it, it worked! probably because hes human, a human, just like all other humans, with the right to free choice

[kupoartist]

Originally posted by Lava42000
One of my friends used to be really turned on by one of out teachers, and what did he do? trained himself to not think about her like that and not like her anymore, and wouldnt ya know it, it worked!

thats ever so slightly different. you can't compare a crush on an individual to a sexual preference for and entire gender.

[Lava42000]

well to reply to ice's question (which is a breath of fresh air caus it was gettin pretty negative in here) I think it is wrong just because thats not the way u should be. This isnt an opinion based on the bible either, if you have ever looked at a guy and a girl look at how they would "fit together" when doin the hibbidy dibbidy. I am only fourteen so i wouldnt really know yet, but when a guy and a girl are havin sex they look to fit together pretty well. Also, has anyone ever noticed that weird occurance when a guy put sperm in a girl and it fertilizes her egg and she somehow reproduces and makes a child. i do believe that involves 1 man and 1 woman, hmmm... interesting...

[BlackThornn]

If you picked homosexuality freely then that's a lifestyle choice. Like a haircut.

Like those guys with spiked haircuts, y'know the ones with tufts of hair sticking straight up with hair gel?

It's not the choice that might suit you, but it's still a valid choice. God isn't sending all people with spiked hair to hell.

What I became so aggravated about was that after seeing all of the pain, conflict, confusion, and eventual refusal that one of my closest friends went through, somebody comes along and says that he had a free, easy choice of wether to be miserable or not. That's what got me incensed.

Strong enough to change.. that would imply overcoming a natural impulse, would it not? Natural impulses are not free will. And not thinking about a teacher "that way" and not thinking about every attractive person (to you) that way are completely different things. Again, could you train yourself not to be sexually attracted to any women?? Could you train yourself to like guys?

If it's a natural impulse, and something to overcome, why is it there? Why would god put it there as a "test" for some and not others? Completely random?

Failing to "overcome" being homosexual, even IF it is something to overcome, is not something God would send you to hell for. Not if it weren't a test every human had to pass.

[Reid]

That's wonderful but the difference between sexual orientation and trying to give more respect to your teacher by not being sexually attracted to her are incredibly different!

Why would you supress being with another person who could make you happy because a bunch of religious zealots think that's wrong?

Look at other supression (because you're saying that's the way that homosexuals should live):

Catholic priests aren't allowed to marry or make love to anyone, so their hormones get pushed back to where they become sick enough to pursue and sexually harass altar boys!

Denying your feelings, or trying to change your sexual orientation is unhealthy and often results in very bad things happening in turn.

Also, if someone arguing against homosexuality could just quote or explain what the Bible says against homosexuality (Sodom and Gaommorah) and why it'd probably be good for everyone to hear.

[Lava42000]

I have been saying this the whole time, homosexuality is a choice, even if they somehow naturally felt the urge to like guys it could be overcome. Gay people that choose to be gay "freely" (although all gays choose freely) are training themselves to like guys; are they not? I could say that i was gay right now and train myself to be gay, it wouldnt be that hard, but i am going to stick with what is right. When i say right i dont mean by america's standards or the bibles standards, i mean by human standards. If everyone were gay and lesbian we would not reproduce anymore and would ultimately die off. Blackthorn, what u said about failing to overcome and how come homosexuality isnt a "test" for all just proved my point. God did not put homosexuality their, it is a human choice which is why he would send you to hell for it. Unless of course u repented which is why jesus christ is so awesome because he allows u to make mistakes.

and the other thing, the catholic priests that molest little boys are not examples of christians and just because they are not allowed to marry does not mean their free choice to like women is takin away.

Well i have to go now, it has been nice debating with all of you, none of this was meant to be personal and i hope you all did not take it that way. Blackthorn, I hope your friend endures and turns to whatever it is makes him happy, if its homosexuality, deep down he chose tha and now it is probably accepted to him as his lifestyle, i pray that he will find hapiness somehow. Have a good day everyone, i'm sure i will talk to u again.

[BlackThornn]

*sighs, shaking his head* Y'know, it's been so damned long since I've actually had to argue with a religious fundamentalist about homosexuality that I'd forgotten how impossible it is to undo the brainwashing they go through.

Lava.. Believe what you will. But Homosexuality is not a choice, neither easy or hard. God chose to "make" homosexuals for variety, either that or it is simply an evolutionary fluke. Either way it is natural, and it is not evil. It is not a sin.

Other than just saying this, I'm done arguing with you, Lava. Trying to do that I find akin to yelling at a tape recorder that is set to rewind/playback on an endless loop.

[happy_doughnut]

Originally posted by Lava42000
I have been saying this the whole time, homosexuality is a choice,

*laughs* Oh, but it is my friend :laugh: .


Originally posted by the Chimichanga :D
they are both considered abominations..in that way they are the same.

Yes. That is exactly right, Kabuki.

[BlackThornn]

Mena.. Kabuki.. I really hope that one of your kids doesn't turn out to be gay.. for his or her sake..

[happy_doughnut]

Oh do not worry. Since I'm fully aware that they are not born to be that way... they won't, for they will know better than to do so. :)

[BlackThornn]

Just depressing. I really thought you were more open minded and intelligent than that. *sighs*

[kupoartist]

oh come on ffs. think sensibly. Why would anyone consciously make the choice to be ridiculed by idiots, hidden away from everyone and run the risk of never finding true happiness? Oh and BTW, the three most apparently Gay guys in my school also happen to be the three most religous (and in my school, I'd say that only about 20% are really religous, with at least 40% being of no definate Religous leaning at all). Personnally I think their just very scared about what they must face, and hope for some kind of salvation. One of them contemplates suicide and also is known for drinking large ammounts of alcohol.... and people wonder why I see no attraction in religon.

Oh and I think its strange.... the ones sticking up for the people in question are mostly people who know and interact with such people: Ask yourself this; Are they sympathetic because they've had Homosexuality pushed in their face, or is it just simply a matter of friendly, likeable people keeping to their own kind and keeping as far away from the apparent idiots as possible?

I know which answer I favour...

[happy_doughnut]

Originally posted by BlackThornn
Just depressing. I really thought you were more open minded and intelligent than that. *sighs*
:weep:

Well, you may be right. My ' intellegence ' and capacity of being able to sustain a ' good ' debate may not be as strong or as vast as yours. Hell, it may not even measure up to half of your standards when in debate of your intricate theories.
But here I go again :) :

In my little brain, I think Homosexuality is just as ' social ' as the next thing. Many people who become homosexuals (I will refer to them as human-experima) when they grow up have become so because:

1) They grew up without a mother, thus, never really know the opposite sex (sexual incompetence may also be caused by this)

2) Strictly social and psychological: Human-experima call a "mate" the person which will complete them physically and spiritually, and they can't accept the possibility that they will not find this person simply because it will be of the same sex (bisexuality can also be caused by this).

3) Psychosis: Y'know, some bolts leave the skull, too much air going in, too much weeee. Animals go psychotic too.

4) The number of the persons of opposite gender is very small, either in populace, or in the social places the human-experima hang out. As a result, they are in the company of men too much, and go homosexual (that's why jails and army camps have a lot of homosexuals).

What really puzzles me with human homosexuality, however, is the fact that some, but not all homosexuals act with the way referred to as " gay ". That is, talk with a very altered female tone of voice, do extreme gestures, and such. I find that to be rather odd.

[kupoartist]

This is going to be quick and probably useless, but anyways... (need sleep)

1. never heard of that in any situation. usually makes the person in question over emasculate.
2. perhaps my brain is too tired or stoopid, but I can't actually work out what your saying here...
3. Possibly Prejudical. Psychosis would be caused by repeated bashing by others (happens to anyone). No records of Homosexuals running into Churches with Samurai swords.
4. Usually I hear of this creating more testosterone filled weirdos than Gays.

And with your final observation, I'm as puzzled as you ^_^... but hey non-gay guys act in plenty of different way as well.

[Sid554]

This thread is STILL going on?

[Infernal Mass]

Originally posted by BlackThornn
Mena.. Kabuki.. I really hope that one of your kids doesn't turn out to be gay.. for his or her sake..


that'll never happen, if it does i'll chokeslam the little dirty bastard. :laugh:

Nah! lighten up Blackthornn, since when did you become the advocate of homoerotic tendencies. I'm sticking with my first statement - to each their own. Everyone has the right to be happy, who cares what others think. The ones that worry about what others think are the screwballs.

[BlackThornn]

Arguing with zealots gets me two things: Cranky and parinoid.

I was kinda thinking "..hey, waitaminute" about that abomination post.

And I'm not an advocate! *laughs* I'm just defending what I think is right. I don't want/like any friends of mine being subjected to crap like "I'm disgusted by you. You're going straight to hell." 'Ats all. :D

Mena, I didn't mean intelligence as in book smarts or being able to sustain a debate (which I think are both quite high, actually). Simply the fact that you keep thinking that it's solely from choice or environment is what's depressing.. I would have figured you as being able to wrap your mind more easily around the "birth" concept.. But.. In retrospect, I should have said either "lack of thorough thought on the matter", or simple lack of "close" experience with homosexual people. Sorry. *points to first sentence of post*

Anyway.. on with the point-by-point analysis, hmm?

1- Uh.. I grew up without a mother. I ended up being one of the biggest pus--h--... err.. Horndogs.. you'd ever know.

2- ..I guess I'm more tired than I thought too.. I am having a hard time understanding what this one's saying.

3- Yah.. animals go psychotic, but psychosis USUALLY burns out after a while.. That'd be trippy, to be all "flash" gay then "flash" straight again. It'd probably f*** with your head something royal too. I've also never heard of an animal going psychotic and just humping other male animals, instead of just either humping everything in sight, or going nuts and attacking.

4- Usually I hear of this creating overly "macho" guys, parinoid about turning into just that. At least in army camps. But you're right.. Environment can change an individual. (Thing is, I never said that it was ALL instances of "birth homosexuality")

In prisons, however, I think it's pretty much a matter of choice. *shrugs* I mean, those guys aren't exactly moral. They're a bunch of horny half-wits who see violence and dominance as a way of life.. and apparently they haven't been properly introduced to thier hands.

It doesn't puzzle me.. 'Cause the fact is if you took one of those "femmy" gay guys into the lab you'd find a much increased level of estrogen in thier system. I might be wrong but I'm guessing the more "butch" a gay dude is the more normal biochemical ..uh.. "layout" *..shrugs* and the more subtle imbalance that causes it is, if any.

Though, there's also the fact that some guys are just wierd. I mean, look at Eddie Izzard (one of my favorite comedians). He's straight, but he dresses up in women's clothing and wears makeup and ****. He doesn't have a lisp or nothin, but still. Humans is wierd. :roll:

[kamari-ice]

The Kabuki's thread.

[happy_doughnut]

Kamari : ?

Anyhow, very well.
I think everyone is a ' zealot ', in one way or another :) .

In actuality, I have had many close encounters with Homosexual people ( same goes for Bi's ect. ect. ) . I mean, I DO live in CA. after all http://www.westwoodi.net/~smilies/contrib/lynx/magwink.gif .

I can apprehend what you're saying, actually. In fact, I do realize that many of the theories which state Homosexuality as being something that is so from the start, has many points which could make them correct. However, I personally, do not see things to be that way.

Your points are indeed very reasonable. Yet I cannot help but see many flaws in that of the laws of man.
I also know myself very well, and I am fully aware that I can argue for a very very long time, and that I don't have the best of tendencies when it comes to analyzing things point by point :disturb: .

So with that being said, I'll let it be with my last couple of thoughts :

1.) I reiterate, I don't hate Homosexuals. I don't see why hatred should be a factor involved in this issue. But alas, they ( and everyone else ) can do what they please. They can go hump the first thing they see if they wish to do so. After all, it doesn't affect me.

2.) I think Homosexuality is something that is chosen. Mainly I think this way because of personal experiences. Many of the people that I know whom are like this, did not start out this way, rather, they ' became ' this because... well, they had issues. However, note that I said many, which means, that I cannot speak for all of them, because doing so would be utterly ridiculous.

3.) Again, I don't hate them. I just don't find myself to be comfortable around them. This is, again, a very personal way of thinking. If and when the time comes that I must socialize with them, I won't offend because that is not what I want nor intend to do.
I think they're ' different' ... and yes, sometimes I think they're gross.
Yet they do no harm to me, so why should I in any way harm them, right ?

4.) They are people. People, just like everyone here. I just think they're ' weird '... different . But then again, we are all weird in distinct ways if we think about it. Just like everyone else, they have different thoughts, feelings and opinions, but in the end... we are all just people trying to get by.

That's that :) .

[BlackThornn]

Originally posted by Mena

Kamari : ?

..I second that ? and raise a :peoples:


3.) Again, I don't hate them. I just don't find myself to be comfortable around them. This is, again, a very personal way of thinking. If and when the time comes that I must socialize with them, I won't offend because that is not what I want nor intend to do.
I think they're ' different' ... and yes, sometimes I think they're gross.
Yet they do no harm to me, so why should I in any way harm them, right ?


I must point to my first post in this thread. I am not exactly uncomfortable, but it's not like I can't get unnerved when I see a couple of guys making like they're in the back of a car in high school. And I *really* despise the gay guys or lesbians that look at straight people with disgust, and voice it unabashedly; believing themselves and thier habits superior when they clearly are not. Y'know.. kinda like Mac maniacs. :P

I am so vehement about the subject because I have friends that are gay and my fiancee happens to be bi. They are not abominations, they are not going to hell (I might be after I get through with anyone who says that to my face, though), and they didn't choose to be that way. :)

[Serj]

I don't care about people and there ***gotry. I've have a good friend and He's been my friend over for 6-7 years now and he admitted to me a couple of weeks ago that he was indeed bisexual. So in reality, our friendship didn't change or anything. Thats his lifestyle and I really can careless. He's still my friend no matter what.

[Frozen]

Originally posted by Kabuki Magnifico
to each their own


kabuki: http://imbiss-coding.de/smiliez.de/smz/cl/cl_20.gif it's perfectly normal for women to be bisexual, because they are all beautiful love creatures.

Amen.

But I prefer straight ones :D

As for me, I've got nothing against homosexuals. I've got a bisexual female friend, and another lesbian friend, who is an adoptive mother. Not that I agree with all that, though. I think that there is some purpose for us have been created men and women, otherwise, we should all be of the same sex. I think that homosexuality is wrong and unnatural. But that's what I think, it's only my opinion and I mean no offense to anybody with this.

by the way....... *hugs Mena* :D

[merylsilverburg]

I didn't exactly read this entire thread, only up to the 2nd page, so if I am repeating what some of you guys said, then I apologize. Anyway, here are my thoughts:
It's not wrong to be gay, les., or bisexual or whatever. They are still normal human beings, so they should just be treated just the same. The only difference is that they like guys or girls or both. I don't have a problem against them; it actually saddens me when I read stories of people getting killed just for being gay or a lesbian. Calling them f*gs is also inappropriate too and very immature and just proves that you're ignorant. They were just born that way and it's their nature and no one can change that. If you don't accept it, that's fine and if you do, then hey, cool.

I also agree with some of you that gays or lesbians show their "pride" too much though. I mean.....I don't have a problem with the Gay Parade, but here are my thoughts on why I think gays and lesbians try their very best to express themselves:
It's because of ignorant people who can't accept them for who they are, which is why they try so hard and why they have parades to show their pride and all. They just want to make sure that everyone knows that they are the way they are and that they're proud of it. Sure, I know that some of you guys say that "Okay, so you're gay, there's no need to keep showing off you're pride" but in their case, it's not so and it's all because of ignorant and discriminatory people who think it's wrong. If everyone could just understand that they are the way they are.....then they just might lighten up on the "pride" thing.

As for me, I don't have a problem with them at all, though sometimes when I know they are gay, lesbian, or bisexual I get a little uncomfortable, but that's because it's just something that I'm not used to. In my mind, I'm just thinking "Oh wow...this person is "gay, les. or bi"' but in reality.....I don't care. I'm totally cool with them being whoever they are. However, if they keep pushing it (like making out with their significant other almost ALL the time just to prove it again and again) then I would get slightly annoyed. If I were to have a friend, I would like to have a gay friend more than a lesbian friend. Here's why:
Gay guys are just more better to talk with because they're not as uptight as lesbians. What I mean is....when you encounter a lesbian, they really do try so hard to prove that they like chicks and all men suck. I mean, there are a few lesbians who come into the place where I work and they all have that "Women Rule" vibe. It's annoying. While on the other hand, there's this gay guy who comes in and yes, he will beat you to a pulp if you offend him but otherwise, he's intellectual and kinda open to talk with. He's more of the "male" counterpart in the relationship, if you guys know what I mean. But, yeah.....in the end, there's nothing wrong with gays, lesbians, or bisexuals and though you don't have to accept them for what they are...they're still human and they can't change the way they are, no matter how much you force them.

EDIT: I had just finished reading every page and I have to say: I'm quite furious. I usually don't like to get mad, but after what that Lava guy has to say.....damn, I'm quite pissed. Look...I see his point, but s/he doesn't understand that they cannot change who they are....it's not a choice! If it was a damn choice, then why do so many people suffer when they are gay and do not want to be gay to be considered "normal", but end up to still being gay? It's not because they're not "strong enough" to change themselves...it's because they can't. I'm tired right now and getting cranky, so I'd better stop.

[Frozen]

Heh, I'm glad I'm a friend of someone as wise as Meryl-chan :D Definitely, opression brings all that kind of reactions, if you may call it that way, and I'm pointing towards the gay parades and such.

And well, definitely ignorance and stupidity is what brings all these kind of problems. Although I already said what I think about homosexuality and I stand to it even if I am called ignorant for that, is just what I feel deep inside me, that I'll never understand why homosexuality exists, if we are men and women, and are biologically "manufactured" to complement each other, and I'm not just pointing only towards sex if that's what you folks are thinking :D I mean, in general. But well, definitely, everyone's costumes, traditions, beliefs, and behaviors must be respected and accepted, as long as they don't bring harm or trouble to the rest of the ppl.

The problem is that ppl is stupid and they all want to force their beliefs above everybody else and that's why what happens happens. That's why I think the romans were so cool. They had it easy :D

[merylsilverburg]

Thanks, Frozen-sama. ;) But, really....I don't have a problem with a person if they don't like homosexuals, but it just really saddens and slighty angers me when they continue to call them names or say they're disgusting (not and I repeat not pointing any fingers) or try to shun them for being who they are. It's not their fault and it's just really sad to hear their stories of their suffering or the abuse they had to take. What's worse is if their own parents can't understand about their situations....then it's just depressing. I mean...sure.....it's not normal to be a homosexual......but there are many things that people do that are not normal either or a part of the society we live in. Homosexuals are just very unique individuals (if you want to put it that way) but they're still human.

[Solidus]

I think it's completely normal. And I think this thread is offensive to others, can a mod close this?

- Solidus, report done.

[Spirit]

I dont think this is a subject that needs to be closed. Personally I like girls... a lot and I don't mind gay people at all. Its them trying to hit on me is what pisses me off. If you're gay, fine but please check to make sure the people you're hitting on are as well =P

[Frozen]

I don't either see any reason for this thread to be closed, we're supposed to be talking about the matter between mature, intelligent people.

Meryl-chan, I know that at least you didn't point any fingerst o me :D I also think it's sad that ppl discriminates homosexuals and that is real bad. But as I said, mmost of people is stupid nowadays. I don't have problems with homosexuals either. As I said before, I have a lesbian and a bisexual friend who are dear to me.

I've never had a gay friend, or at least that I have noticed, but I don't think I would have a problem with that, but as Spirit said, if one of them begins to mess up with me I'll beat his a§§ down. Otherwise I'm cool :D

[Cannibal Clown]

I always feel terrible when a real deep and controversal thread like this is open, and i have nothing intelegent to say. I have no real aquaintences that are gay or lesbian. I have never been around anyone like atht, and i have no experience being in those kinda situations.

I still like to try to just picture everyone as a normal person, and i get really aangry at people who don't take matters like this in a mature way. But allin all, i would feeel oquard around a gay or lesbian person. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but that's just the way i am.

I do though, have a really good friend who is Bi, but i never see that side of her, and only hear stories, so it doesn't really effect me. But i do feel odd talkignto her, knowing that she does have odd little after schoiol hobbies like that.

I heard about stories from before i came to highschool about a couple of guys who put a gay person in a hospital and nothing rea;lly happenedf to the guys who did it. That pissedme off a lot, bvut i also tyhough to myself if i would go up and defends them if i was there.

[Mistah Big]

First of all, you choose to be gay. That's how it goes. You're not born being gay. You can say that I'm wrong all that you want. And most of the time it's guys that are confused, or guys that have never gotten any women that turn gay(in my experience anyway) I don't go out and beat the crap out of a gay guy or anything. I just think it's nasty to see a guy and guy kissing, but hey, that's just me. I personally think it's not a good thing to be gay, mentally and healthwise. But once again, that's my opinion and I don't go out and enforce it on anybody.

[Carlito]

I don't want this thread to be closed just because I think some serious discussion, other than talking about movies or videogames, is good.
But just a note: be careful when you talk of other people in a certain way when you say "It's my personal idea". The fact you're expressing yourself doesn't mean you can say whatever you want. It's not limitation of free speech, but respect. Respect towards people you don't know, mainly. Your idea, being this a public place, doesn't necessarily involve offences or calling people "disgusting". If you want to say such things, don't post at all, or just try to control your way of talking. It's not your right to judge and many people here expressed some ideas that sound more like judgements than mere opinions.
Please, keep this on mind and respect others' choices.

[BlackThornn]

First of all, "Mistah Big", you're wrong. And I suspect you've only ever even encountered homosexuals in passing ("seeing guys kissing", etc.)

I'm not gonna bother dredging up this argument again, but presented in such an immature little way I also suspect you're about sixteen. Go out and have some life experiences before you post an opinion on a board like this.

Not all homosexuals are born that way, but the FACT is that it is not a choice, concious or subconcious, in most, or at least a great many cases.

[Mistah Big]

Originally posted by BlackThornn
First of all, "Mistah Big", you're wrong. And I suspect you've only ever even encountered homosexuals in passing ("seeing guys kissing", etc.)

I'm not gonna bother dredging up this argument again, but presented in such an immature little way I also suspect you're about sixteen. Go out and have some life experiences before you post an opinion on a board like this.

Not all homosexuals are born that way, but the FACT is that it is not a choice, concious or subconcious, in most, or at least a great many cases.

Heh, actually I know some. Actually I'm 18, almost 19. And I have heard and seen alot of things in my short life:) Well once you have been all messed up, of course you won't want to go back to being straight. Because all you would know is being with guys, and trying to get with a girl would make you feel like you're doing the wrong thing.

[BlackThornn]

..Key word, kiddo. SHORT LIFE.

Just because you've come across a couple of confused teenagers doesn't mean you automatically know wether or not it's a choice.

Oh, and by the way.. That post? Made no sense. Probably why I'm not flaming you.. *chuckles*

[Mistah Big]

Originally posted by BlackThornn
..Key word, kiddo. SHORT LIFE.

Just because you've come across a couple of confused teenagers doesn't mean you automatically know wether or not it's a choice.

Oh, and by the way.. That post? Made no sense. Probably why I'm not flaming you.. *chuckles*

Heh, keyword Chuckles. What's your point?

Heh, when did I ever say they are teenagers?:)

Heh, sorry, I guess I have to start speaking your language. *clears his throat* Yo Yo Yo, I thinks that once you get wit a guy, you don't know anything else from that G-Slice. Since you have never been wit a chick before Yo:) Because every gay dude that I know has never been wit a chick before.

[Rei]

Maybe you don't know many homosexually oriented people, but you know, there are many, the greatest part of them, that actually had experiences with women and suffered a lot because they were not made for having a relationship with them and discovered it after being together with a woman.

[Evil Parrot]

Originally posted by Mistah Big
First of all, you choose to be gay. That's how it goes. You're not born being gay.

Were you born hetrosexual? I'm pretty sure you were, as were I. When you stared going through the 'change of life' as a teenager, I bet you didnt have a choice with the sex of the person you were attracted to. Its the same with gay people. They didnt 'choose' who they were attracted to, their instincts and feelings drove them in that direction.

I used to be homaphobic (also known as homophobia:laugh: ) until i met some gay people about 5 years ago. I realised then that I was being quite shallow in my opinions and should accept people for who they are, and not their preference in partners. Judging them for being different is the same as judging someone for having a different religion or colour.

What I'm basically saying is, gay people are normal. We shouldnt think of them as anything but that.

[Mistah Big]

Look, I'm just telling you the truth. I don't really care if you agree with me or not. Just telling you like it is.

[BlackThornn]

Well, gosh darn. You must have THE highest level of intelligence I've seen in a while, Mistah Big. -_-

Don't speak your goddamn ebonics and claim it's MY language. And what you're telling is not the truth, you are not a scientist (you haven't even become a sophomore in college yet), you aren't gay (are you?? Hmmmmm?) and you obviously do not have anyone that you CARE about that is gay, that you saw go through that change.

What you are spouting here is nothing but your own uneducated little opinion.. and the truth is that you are mucking up the serious and mature conversation that was STARTING to spring up in this thread, after zealots like Lava left.

[Mistah Big]

Originally posted by BlackThornn
Well, gosh darn. You must have THE highest level of intelligence I've seen in a while, Mistah Big. -_-

Don't speak your goddamn ebonics and claim it's MY language. And what you're telling is not the truth, you are not a scientist (you haven't even become a sophomore in college yet), you aren't gay (are you?? Hmmmmm?) and you obviously do not have anyone that you CARE about that is gay, that you saw go through that change.

What you are spouting here is nothing but your own uneducated little opinion.. and the truth is that you are mucking up the serious and mature conversation that was STARTING to spring up in this thread, after zealots like Lava left.

So if I was a scientist, everything that I say would be true?? Where is the logic in that?? No I'm not a sophomore in college, what's your point? I'm not gay, what's your point? I do know three guys that I grew up with, that recently turned gay or came out of the closet(whatever you want to call it) Heh, I could say the same about your opinion:) Straight Pride:cool:

[Cannibal Clown]

it's amazing how fast a serious argumental discussion can turn into an irrelevent cat fight between two members.

Perhaps both of you shold take a little rest and think things over a bit.

[BlackThornn]

*chuckles* Sorry, CC. I just can't abide ignorant fools who proclaim thier opinion about something to be fact without even backing it up with solid points.

*slaps mistah big on ignore* There we go. Problem solved.

[Cannibal Clown]

Whatever works i guess.

[Ruby Moon]

Recognizing the difference between facts and opinions requires a certain open mindness... I think this wasn't the point of the thread though. Carlito has a good point in his last post: whatever you think of people you may consider different, you shouldn't call them names and judge because of your experience. Nobody's free to judge others just because you made a different choice in life (if it's a choice, because as other members said, many homo people are not choosing their way of being, but they only try to follow their personal nature). I doubt some homo or bi person would be happy to post a reply reading some of the ideas expressed here... :peoples:

[Lava42000]

Hey Blackthorn, "Zealots Like Lava" haven't left, they have just gotten sick and tired of dealing with people who can't bring them cold hard facts on the subject of homosexuality. One fact I do know that has been repeated throughout history over and over is the fact of human choice!

[Mistah Big]

Originally posted by Lava42000
Hey Blackthorn, "Zealots Like Lava" haven't left, they have just gotten sick and tired of dealing with people who can't bring them cold hard facts on the subject of homosexuality. One fact I do know that has been repeated throughout history over and over is the fact of human choice!

True, very true:)