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Old Jan 25th, 2007, 12:44 PM   #1
Hylas
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Thumbs down Basch is a fashion failure

Let's discuss this very important aspect of FFXII: Basch and his style. His sense of fashion (or rather the sense of fashion of his creator or rather the fashion style that has been chosen for him by his creator or whatever you like to call it) is a total disaster. He's like skater meets Mad Max meets Street Fighter meets something else. I hate his shoes (?) in particular way.

What do you think?
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Old Jan 26th, 2007, 10:44 AM   #2
IcyMourdor
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May I ask what the particular way is?

Anyways, I supposed someone had to be the rough, "tank" type of person. To be honest, the only two I think actually look GOOD is Ashe and Fran.

I suppose spending all that time in the dark, you forget how to dress yourself.
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Old Jan 26th, 2007, 03:12 PM   #3
Pu the Owl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcyMourdor
the only two I think actually look GOOD is Ashe and Fran.
Why would Viera, who are supposed to be all "natural" and in touch with the purest aspects of nature, dress like fetishists and gothic lolitas?That's something I really don't understand about Fran's charater design... If with good you mean fitting the character and her role in the story, then no, Fran is not very good. If with good you mean other, ahem, things, then I can agree

And Ashe, well, apart from the awful flashy pink miniskirt, I guess she's ok. I like they did not try to make her a pleasant or cute character at all costs, like it often happens with heroines in many other Final Fantasy games. But, maybe it's the colors, everytime I see her I think of a diseased person.

I think the best work with design has been done with Balthier. The detail used for his outfit is amazing and very refined, from clothes to accessories. The scary thing are the bracelet and rings, which are cute but sort of... misplaced? gay? Not that this is a problem in my eyes, in fact with Freya and Vivi he's now a fave of mine. But these rings and bracelet are sort of question mark in the general picture.

I'm not sure all characters are mixed well in the general design. Some styles are odd if you look at them from the perspective of another character's style. But I guess that's a very Japanese thing to do, to mix so many and varied elements together.

BTW, Basch looks better with beard IMO. It gave him an aura of dignity and respect that he lacks in his, as Hylas called it, "skater meets Mad Max meets etc." version. It's a great character to deride, but not in a malicious way. I did that all the time, while playing. The "Oh look, here comes Basch!" kind of comment, or "Basch is a bit like Super Mario and He-Man rolled into one!" or "Look at the way he runs with all these bulging muscles!". Tank type of characters are always great to have a good laugh, but this is just me
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Old Feb 7th, 2007, 06:55 PM   #4
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Vaan is wearing the world's most pointless waistcoat (it's hardly keeping him warm or protecting his modesty now is it?). It's hard to criticise the poor guy of course. Like turning up for work and finding your usually picky boss unable to criticise your uniform because actually, you're only wearing a fig leaf on your front side and are covering everything else with any available leafs.

Ashe looks like the girl who decided to play dress-up with her Big Sister's clothes. Only her sister was a transvestite hooker whose fetish for women's clothing was so great that she thought cutting clothes to shreds was a valid form of self-harm.

Balthier looks beyond acceptable, which is an achievement these days. Though those quasi-sandal boot things have got to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panuru
But these rings and bracelet are sort of question mark in the general picture.
Square-Enix are not ones to fuel the fires of Yaoi fanfiction

Fran is completely and utterly brilliant. Promotional shots of her should be distributed upside down so that randy guys on slow connections get fooled into experiencing sexual arousal from a woman with foot tall rabbit ears. The funny thing is, I swear they're photoshopped into every promo, like the guys at Square-Enix are purposely sabotaging what is an ugly mysogonistic nightmare of a character design and turning it into the circus sideshow of the century. Fran is designed to turn you into a Furry lover.

Basch is another victim of dress-up time. I haven't played FF12 yet, but from the outfit, I'm guessing his father is a notorious armorer in the land of Ivalice. You know, because it never occured to him that actually, the stomach is a good place to protect from magic arrows and sharp swords. Does he specially tailor for the chest-burster generation, who must experiment with strange alien eggs but don't want to ruin their armor? Or actually, perhaps he was fully aware of the stomach deficiency, but he didn't want to compromise the homoerotic dehabillitation effect that wearing a half-fastened girl's blouse has on opponents? So whilst the Ivalice in FF Tactics is The War of the Roses, FF12 is set in a time akin to some battle in Greece? A really sweaty, manly battle?

Penelo is probably one of the more normal looking characters. Well, by normal I mean 'fits into the FF third girl stereotype'. The Selphie Tilmitt one. She's loud, tomboyish and sports silly hair and something tight fitting and yellow. She also has a bottom that seems simultaneously far too big for what she is wearing yet far too inhumanly small at the same time. And what is with those giant leather bracelets?

Edit:
I think the general point is that Square-Enix thinks that because consoles are pumping more and more polygons every generation, they absolutely must up the detail level on their designs by over nine-thousand. Only, the best way they've come up with to do this is to put as many different outfits on a single character simultaneously. Oh for the days in which characters wore clothes composed of 384 dots.

Last edited by kupoartist; Feb 7th, 2007 at 07:05 PM..
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Old Feb 20th, 2007, 12:07 AM   #5
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*after reading the above post* ...makes a lot of sense
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Old Feb 20th, 2007, 12:19 AM   #6
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Yeah, I wonder why some characters' style doesn't fit anywhere, because they wanted to make it so very complicated and they ended creating something that is a total denial of any existing style. Why couldn't they come back to something simpler and neater?

Vaan is like Aladdin with bleached hair and trekking shoes. Penelo looks like she's wearing what Rikku discarded in FFX. Reddas and Ashe must be buying their stuff from the same shops since their style is matching perfectly. Balthier's sandals are pretty bad, and looking at him or Basch galloping happily among ice and snow with the shoes they have is just painful.

BTW, did I mention how pointless I find the whole armor fashion in FFXII?
In the Ivalice of the game they have advanced technology (example? futuristic airships etc...) but they couldn't come up with anything better than these ancient Roman/Byzantine/Medieval-like pieces of metal or leathery materials, with a touch of I don't know what else to spice things up. And in many cases, the results are very pointless and silly looking. Take Reks. How stupid is his combat oufit? It's beyond stupid and pointless. It doesn't cover vital parts, it doesn't cover anything you're supposed to protect in combat, it must be also pretty uncomfortable to wear. It's just an imitation of combat armor. What about Vossler? Ok, at least he seems to have decent shoes, but... How is a warrior supposed to survive when he has to dress like that? Why making them wear origami or lego bricks instead of solid and versatile armor pieces? If enemy doesn't kill them, then shame surely will
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Old May 15th, 2007, 03:50 PM   #7
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I agree. I think that pink shirt thing under that comes out in the front, with the white ruffles, is just not cool. I much rather his original design, the design that should have been used, but Square-Enix wants to appeal to the mainstream, blah!

Basch (orig. design):
http://img53.imageshack.us/my.php?im...albaschgj4.jpg

Fran is... well she is hot. No complaints there. I really don't like Penelo, or Vaan, but I really like Balthier. Balthier is my favorite character. Basch would have been my favorite if they would have stuck to his original design. Ashe is okay, but she comes second to Balthier. Just my opinion, though.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 09:08 AM   #8
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Haven't played the game myself but I've looked at the high-res art pieces of characters from the game and plenty of videos. How the main characters are designed is nothing new, I personally think Sqaurenix has not made very many good character designs ever since they entered the 3-D realm. FF7 the characters look pretty normal, with Cid being my favorite since he looked like something a guy of his type would wear. Then FF8 branded into "let’s make everyone look like cosplayers and hey, big scars on your face makes you hardcore, super hardcore." Then there was Zell, he and Mike Tyson had to be the only two alive to ever think that god awful face tattoo was cool. Then FF9 made everyone look sorta like muppet babies, but I didn't mind as much since the FF9 was lighter hearted then most. Then FF10 gave us Meg Ryan in space age soccer clothes and a cross eyed shrine maiden.

I could make plenty of jokes about Vaan, but all I can really do is point and laugh until I choke on my tears. Sqaurenix has made bizarre character after bizarre characters that clothing options even for a fantasy game look god awful and make no practical sense in a combat situation. Fran would die from blood loss from all the skin she reveals and Vaan must hate his chest/stomach because he displays his scrawny figure with pride. Then like somebody else mentioned Basch must like getting stabbed in the stomach, because he's totally open. Then Ashe looks like a high school girl wearing all the trampy clothes she can find to rebel against daddy, her face also annoys me she just looks...annoying.

Then Balthier looks the most normal of the lot when compared to the setting and style of the game. His clothing is light and perfect for the fast fighting type of guy he is, his sandals don't make much practical sense but a small detail I can forgive. I can forgive whatever little things Balthier may have wrong when everyone else look like the seventh circle of cosplay hell.

I wish for once SE would make characters that still stand out from everybody else but their clothing practical for a combat situation. They also need to stop with the gaudy colors, bright yellow jumpsuit on Penolo? It makes me want to stab my eyes with a fork. I also wish the main character you play didn't look like the worlds biggest doofus and also sound like it. I know people out there will go "OMG Vann LOOKS UBER GAY!" but last time I checked virtual game characters do not have sexual orientation. Vann just looks out of place, his armor is stupid as hell and he just looks like an uninspired and "let’s make another feminine looking guy but he may be a bit girlish but he is hardcore as hell. So hardcore that he can kill a large dragon with a sword and then eat its young even though his appearance gives no evidence of that and looks like he just came from an anime convention." His armor still makes no practical sense, his legs and hands are protected yet his chest has nothing but a small vest, one well placed stab to this guy’s chest and he'd be dead.

I also haven't been impressed with how the characters are voiced either, despite some of them having veteran voice actors. The only guy whose look and voice I like is Balthier, he sounds like the smooth rogue he is and his entire character is just nicely constructed from his look to voice and personality.

But yeah in conclusion I haven't been too pleased with character design once they entered the 3-D realm and voice acting since FF10. But I haven't really liked FF in years and was highly disappointed in 10 so I'm probably not the best guy to ask. I do like how the story for FF12 is about political strife then saving the world, too bad the guys saving the kingdom in FF12 look like the Cosplay Brigade.
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