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Old Aug 24th, 2006, 02:54 PM   #1
Meiko
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Question Gedo no Senki: is it really that bad?

What do you guys think about the movie of Goro Miyazaki, without seeing it? After the release in Japan the reviews were very negative, but the movie is still top at the box office (beating PotC 2 isn't that easy!). People said the movie is boring and too serious, characters are flat and animations are not good. They said it's a shame Miyazaki senior could not direct it. I don't know what to think. I have only seen trailers, and it doesn't seem bad. Goro isn't Hayao, but I think we shouldn't be too strict only because he's his son. We should not make a comparison. I also think a Studio Ghibli movie is still above average animation, especially stuff like Disney.

Are you looking forward to it? Are you going to see it when it's out in your country? Do you expect it to be bad or not?
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Old Aug 25th, 2006, 04:23 AM   #2
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The gripe about the animation could simply be nit-picking, as it is still Studio Ghibli that drew it. Perhaps Miyazaki Jr. wanted a more classic feel/look to the film. From the trailers, it does look rather dramatic, but it is based on a series of books by fantasy author, Ursula LeGuin. I will still see the film if I can ever get my hands on it, but I don't think it'll be anytime soon. My expectations are neutral...I'll just watch it with an open mind and see how I feel.
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Old Aug 25th, 2006, 11:08 PM   #3
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Since all I can see in cinemas when I want to watch animation is Pixar or Dreamworks stuff, I'm really looking forward to this one, that at least I'm sure will be a real movie, with a real story and not a collection of funny gags and trite sentimentalism. Of course it is not Hayao Miyazaki, and Goro Miyazaki, not being an animator or a screenwriter or anything like that, could seem an inept to the vast majority of Studio Ghibli fans. But I'm still optimistic. I'm hoping this movie gets a better distribution than Howl's Moving Castle here. I had to watch the previous Studio Ghibli movie on DVD because of the terrible distribution, but I was really hoping to watch it on big screen
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Old Aug 25th, 2006, 11:21 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merylsilverburg
it is based on a series of books by fantasy author, Ursula LeGuin.[/color]
Is it based on all books?
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Old Aug 26th, 2006, 05:40 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebraman
Is it based on all books?
According to Nausicaa, the film is mostly based on volume 3 (The Farthest Shore) but bits of the first few volumes are probably put in the film as well.

Also, according to the Nausicaa site, Gedo may not be released in the US until 2009...because of contract issues of the Sci-Fi channel version (WTF?!)


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Originally Posted by Panuru
I'm really looking forward to this one, that at least I'm sure will be a real movie, with a real story and not a collection of funny gags and trite sentimentalism.
Is this a criticism upon all current Studio Ghibli/Hayao Miyazaki films? Or are you criticizing the Pixar and Dreamworks stuff?
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Old Aug 26th, 2006, 05:54 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merylsilverburg
Is this a criticism upon all current Studio Ghibli/Hayao Miyazaki films? Or are you criticizing the Pixar and Dreamworks stuff?
I'm talking about Pixar/Dreamworks. And Disney, too. Though I have to say some of the best Pixar stuff is good and I like it, I'm tired of them. Is it good to make every year the same movie, only changing a bit this and that detail, or character design? Is it good to have sequels and sequels and sequels of mediocre movies just because people will watch them in any case? No, it isn't. But that's what they do. For a 5-10 years old it can be ok. But I'm a bit older than that, I can't enjoy the same thing forever. I want animation movies to be good movies, not only cute stuff to look at.
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Old Aug 26th, 2006, 06:25 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panuru
I'm talking about Pixar/Dreamworks. And Disney, too. Though I have to say some of the best Pixar stuff is good and I like it, I'm tired of them. Is it good to make every year the same movie, only changing a bit this and that detail, or character design? Is it good to have sequels and sequels and sequels of mediocre movies just because people will watch them in any case? No, it isn't. But that's what they do. For a 5-10 years old it can be ok. But I'm a bit older than that, I can't enjoy the same thing forever. I want animation movies to be good movies, not only cute stuff to look at.
Well, Pixar and Disney are mostly collaborating on everything, so whatever Pixar creates, it's part Disney too. But, I know what you mean about these ridiculous CG-ed movies...it's this reason why I'm so disgusted with anything CG nowadays. These animators and studios don't give a rat's ass about the quality of the story; just as long as they have 3-D characters prancing about and trying to be funny, they're fine (examples: Madagascar, Hoodwinked, Over the Hedge, Chicken Little, blah, blah, blah...snore). Of course, the stupid audience is to blame too since they're so shallow now that anything retarded is considered "hilarious" or "a masterpiece." It boggles my mind.
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Old Aug 26th, 2006, 07:00 AM   #8
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Haven't seen it, but personally i'm expecting something along the lines of "The Cat Returns", except not, obviously. In terms of budget and competence, it would make sense that every second, non-Miyazaki film coming out of Ghibli at the moment would be more of a money spinner to raise funds for the next big thing (regardless what the critics have said, people went to see the damned thing ).

I'm not a fan of Goro Miyazaki jumping the queue. I think it's very cynical that they wanted to bring in a nobody with the right surname to draw people in. Regardless of Goro's competence (or lack of), the team at Ghibli can float a reasonable movie without A-class direction, so basically, it's probably a watchable film that you will most likely enjoy, but not regard as the best thing since sliced bread.

Meiko, in the meantime, content yourself with the fact that Only Yesterday is out in like 2 weeks. Not in the US of course, where it will never be released because discussing menstruation makes Disney swoon and hide the entire movie away in the big iron vault. I use this opportunity to do a "haha! Europe finally got something America didn't out of Japan!" dance.

On the subject of Disney / Pixar / Dreamworks, I can only really admire Pixar and something of what Disney used to be. Disney is truely down the pan now, Dreamworks' output is just dire. I kind of enjoyed the Shrek movies, but they're not nearly as clever as a lot of people take them to be and they're certainly not masterpieces. Dreamworks are usually trying to copy Pixar, which just goes to show that Pixar are that much better.

Pixar's output has been varied - far more so than Ghibli, definitely less copycat than Dreamworks - they've done stories almost entirely about fish, bugs, cars, monsters and what have you, and I don't believe they've got stale. I'm not a fan of CGI animation, because I don't really enjoy how it looks, but they're still good film-makers.

One thing I do hate - and this goes for all american animators - Voice Talent is taking yet another dive into the abyss. The actors doing voices in western animators aren't professional VAs, but names put in to draw fans. The prevalence of comic-type animation movies in the west is furthered by this. Most of the A-listers brought in for animation movies can't manage serious acting in live-action, let alone animation where granting a character life is solely achieved through voices. Dubs of Anime movies make me cry for that reason, and Disney's approach is to fill out Ghibli's movies with celebs because they don't trust that the movies can sell themselves.

Well, at least they're keeping their filthy talons off of Only Yesterday
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Old Aug 26th, 2006, 08:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kupoartist
In terms of budget and competence, it would make sense that every second, non-Miyazaki film coming out of Ghibli at the moment would be more of a money spinner to raise funds for the next big thing (regardless what the critics have said, people went to see the damned thing ).
Of course, and that's why they do what they do. But I think the real reason why people went to see it, regardless of the critics, is to see how Goro did...compared with his great father, that is. Pretty sad and nerve-wrecking, don't you think?

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I'm not a fan of Goro Miyazaki jumping the queue. I think it's very cynical that they wanted to bring in a nobody with the right surname to draw people in.
That's kinda unfair to say. If you read his profile at Nausicaa, Goro may be a nobody to you, but he helped set up the Ghibli Museum in Japan and served as the managing director there for quite a while. According to his blog, he was always interested in animation but never went into it due to his mother's wishes (his blog on his relationship with his father is also very sad too). Also, when production was beginning for Gedo, Goro led the team and drew out the storyboards. After they were approved by Hideaki Anno (from Evangelion fame) and Yasuo Ootsuka (from Lupin), the producer, Toshio Suzuki, felt confident that Goro could direct the film. Maybe in most cases there is doubt when someone with a popular/famous last name pops out of nowhere, but in some cases, it's unfair to accuse.

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Originally Posted by kupoartist
Regardless of Goro's competence (or lack of), the team at Ghibli can float a reasonable movie without A-class direction, so basically, it's probably a watchable film that you will most likely enjoy, but not regard as the best thing since sliced bread.
Your wholehearted belief and attitude in the team at Ghibli is somewhat fanboyish, no offense. Ghibli may be one of the best animation studios in Japan (and to some, in the world) but they are not of some higher realm or power. They don't have the full ability to carry over crap if the story/direction is crap. To say that the film could be potentially enjoyable just because of the Ghibli name, is a contradiction to what you said about Goro.

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Originally Posted by kupoartist
Meiko, in the meantime, content yourself with the fact that Only Yesterday is out in like 2 weeks. Not in the US of course, where it will never be released because discussing menstruation makes Disney swoon and hide the entire movie away in the big iron vault. I use this opportunity to do a "haha! Europe finally got something America didn't out of Japan!" dance.
It really is unfortunate about Poroporo but I don't think people in the US would enjoy it that much anyway. I mean, people bashed Yamada-kun to pieces, so why should they like this, which is somewhat similar? I think this film is okay, but it's not astounding. It's just a very mellow and somewhat dramatic film which I think is geared more towards females than males. But the beginning is rather good and very cute and the progression of Taeko is seen throughout.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kupoartist
On the subject of Disney / Pixar / Dreamworks, I can only really admire Pixar and something of what Disney used to be. Disney is truely down the pan now, Dreamworks' output is just dire. I kind of enjoyed the Shrek movies, but they're not nearly as clever as a lot of people take them to be and they're certainly not masterpieces. Dreamworks are usually trying to copy Pixar, which just goes to show that Pixar are that much better.
I didn't understand the whole hubabaloo about the "Shrek" movies. It's not that good...some parts are funny, but most are not. Another film that I was sick of hearing about was "The Incredibles" by Disney/Pixar. Some called it a 'masterpiece', I call it 'mediocre.'

Quote:
Originally Posted by kupoartist
One thing I do hate - and this goes for all american animators - Voice Talent is taking yet another dive into the abyss. The actors doing voices in western animators aren't professional VAs, but names put in to draw fans. The prevalence of comic-type animation movies in the west is furthered by this. Most of the A-listers brought in for animation movies can't manage serious acting in live-action, let alone animation where granting a character life is solely achieved through voices. Dubs of Anime movies make me cry for that reason, and Disney's approach is to fill out Ghibli's movies with celebs because they don't trust that the movies can sell themselves.
Oh God, the celebrity dubs of Ghibli films are horrible! When I bought Hauru and listened to the dub, I thought my ears were going to bleed. Not so much of the voice of Sophie (which I thought was okay) but that of Christian Bale as Howl. It's bad enough to put anyone comatose. I thought calling the celebs to do the voices for the traditional 2-D was fine (like back in the days of "The Lion King" or "Beauty and the Beast") but now, it just seems dumb.
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Old Aug 27th, 2006, 07:23 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merylsilverburg
That's kinda unfair to say. If you read his profile at Nausicaa, Goro may be a nobody to you, but he helped set up the Ghibli Museum in Japan and served as the managing director there for quite a while. According to his blog, he was always interested in animation but never went into it due to his mother's wishes (his blog on his relationship with his father is also very sad too). Also, when production was beginning for Gedo, Goro led the team and drew out the storyboards. After they were approved by Hideaki Anno (from Evangelion fame) and Yasuo Ootsuka (from Lupin), the producer, Toshio Suzuki, felt confident that Goro could direct the film. Maybe in most cases there is doubt when someone with a popular/famous last name pops out of nowhere, but in some cases, it's unfair to accuse.
Plain and Simple, Goro jumped the queue. No ammount of unfair pre-judging can outweigh the sheer unfairness of someone jumping into a job he has never built up to, over a industry full of people of great talent. His credentials are extremely weak, and it is clear that Suzuki has used the Miyazaki name to sell the film (why else is he appealing to the viewing public to go and see the movie to decide the father/son conflict? Suzuki's opinion on the matter is never a good angle on the debate. He is solely a buisnessman.) Who wouldn't despise being leap-frogged in that way? I know I would be practically seething put in the position of anyone who has sold their soul to such a fiendish industry, only to see someone shipped in for no apparent reason.
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Originally Posted by merylsilverberg
Your wholehearted belief and attitude in the team at Ghibli is somewhat fanboyish, no offense. Ghibli may be one of the best animation studios in Japan (and to some, in the world) but they are not of some higher realm or power. They don't have the full ability to carry over crap if the story/direction is crap.
On the contrary, a fanboyish attitude wouldn't undermine the importance of the role of the director. The core of Ghibli fanboyism is Miyazaki worship, the same way that all Directors unjustly recieve the full shining acclaim for a product of hundreds of minds. That's just the pathetic way in which the film industry tries to justify itself as an art form, because they need artists and not collectives. Any good team can make a brilliant product without a brilliant director. It's just that film critics can't stomach a decent film coming out a studio without a face attached to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by merylsilverburg
To say that the film could be potentially enjoyable just because of the Ghibli name, is a contradiction to what you said about Goro.
How so?

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Old Aug 27th, 2006, 07:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kupoartist
Plain and Simple, Goro jumped the queue. No ammount of unfair pre-judging can outweigh the sheer unfairness of someone jumping into a job he has never built up to, over a industry full of people of great talent. His credentials are extremely weak, and it is clear that Suzuki has used the Miyazaki name to sell the film (why else is he appealing to the viewing public to go and see the movie to decide the father/son conflict? Suzuki's opinion on the matter is never a good angle on the debate. He is solely a buisnessman.) Who wouldn't despise being leap-frogged in that way? I know I would be practically seething put in the position of anyone who has sold their soul to such a fiendish industry, only to see someone shipped in for no apparent reason.
Well we each have our own opinions about this matter. I mean, you don't have any proof that what you said above is the real deal...it's merely assumptions/speculations. We'll never really know what happened. I just personally feel otherwise; that maybe this was Goro's chance to show what he's made of. If what he wrote in his blogs is true, then this was his opportunity to get into a business that he always wanted to but never was able to. If this is the case, I just think it's unfair to be suspicious of the affair or to be doubtful of his abilities, just because the guy has a famous last name and lacks proper animation/directing credentials. If we immediately discredit him and not give him the chance to prove himself or to show his talent, then why should people bother trying anything new or taking a new position? That's my opinion.

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Originally Posted by kupoartist
On the contrary, a fanboyish attitude wouldn't undermine the importance of the role of the director. The core of Ghibli fanboyism is Miyazaki worship, the same way that all Directors unjustly recieve the full shining acclaim for a product of hundreds of minds. That's just the pathetic way in which the film industry tries to justify itself as an art form, because they need artists and not collectives. Any good team can make a brilliant product without a brilliant director. It's just that film critics can't stomach a decent film coming out a studio without a face attached to it.
Okay, I see what you mean and I do agree. But, maybe I'm just a little less negative because the whole idea of director vs. team thing doesn't really bother me so much. Film critics are douchebags wanting a big name director, but normal viewers are not without fault as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kupoartist
How so?
Because of what you said. You were annoyed that they chose Goro, since you feel he is a sellout, but yet you said that Studio Ghibli would be able to make a passable/manageable movie without a great director. If that's the case, then there's really no point in criticizing Goro's lack of credentials or that he may be a bad director. But what I'm explaining now was before I heard your reason (about directors receiving claim for something from hundreds of minds, etc.).
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Old Aug 29th, 2006, 12:13 AM   #12
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I am not a fan of 3D animated movies either. They just don't seem able to keep me interested. They also lack in the creativity department. You can make bugs, cars, toys or whatever you like talk, even eggplants, but I suppose that's not enough to make a good movie, so I agree on that with what merylsilverburg and Panuru were saying.

I don't know if Goro Miyazaki is a talented person or not, I'll judge him when I see the movie. I think that being the son of a famous artist can be helpful in some case, but it's also a double-edged weapon, because everything you do is automatically compared with the work of someone else, and the comparison will very likely contain some negative prejudice. Being this the case, it's almost impossible for Goro to be judged in a fair way, he will always be considered a second-rate artist.

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Old Aug 29th, 2006, 05:11 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meiko
Being this the case, it's almost impossible for Goro to be judged in a fair way, he will always be considered a second-rate artist.
Yes, and this is unfair. But the case here includes the fact that unlike his Father, with 40+ years of experience in the industry, he rolled up a little over a year ago. Whether he is the right man for the job isn't an issue, it's whether it's morally right to bring someone in who has no discernable established right to be brought in other than his surname. Anyone trying to find a single other logical reason for his employment will fall flat on their face.
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Old Aug 30th, 2006, 04:01 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kupoartist
Whether he is the right man for the job isn't an issue, it's whether it's morally right to bring someone in who has no discernable established right to be brought in other than his surname.
Once again, since there's no proof that he was brought in just because of his surname, the moral issue here is, once again, based on opinions. If you believe this, this is your own belief.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kupoartist
Anyone trying to find a single other logical reason for his employment will fall flat on their face.
You are free to believe what you want, but please acting so high and mighty like as if your reasoning is absolute...there's no need to criticize all those who are less cynical than you are just because they possess a little faith.
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Old Aug 30th, 2006, 05:47 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merylsilverburg
Once again, since there's no proof that he was brought in just because of his surname, the moral issue here is, once again, based on opinions. If you believe this, this is your own belief.
There's a distinct difference between me lacking proof and you failing to read it, or where it is unsaid for reasons of blinding obviousness, failing to recognise it.
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You are free to believe what you want, but please acting so high and mighty like as if your reasoning is absolute...
Care to counter my arguement rather tham just insult me? Because that's all I see here.
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there's no need to criticize all those who are less cynical than you are just because they possess a little faith.
So, who's the fanboy now then?
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Old Aug 30th, 2006, 08:17 PM   #16
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There's a distinct difference between me lacking proof and you failing to read it, or where it is unsaid for reasons of blinding obviousness, failing to recognise it.
Well gee, maybe because it is my own belief that the conspiracy that you are speaking of doesn't exist which is probably why I can't see/recognize the proof, right? So for people like me who don't "see it", that's why you have to present it if you have a valid reason that you want people to see. It's like those people who love their pop idols...those idols display some of the stupidest behaviors, but since the fans can't "see it" because they're fans, they don't see it. I'm not saying that I'm a fan of Goro Miyazaki, but I just can't see it anyway even if I do hate or like him. So, if you show it to me, I might change my mind since I have the proof. However, if your proof is based on your own assumptions anyway, then that's not going to change my mind since it's still proof based on your opinions. And BTW, I don't want to hear anything stupid or childish like "Well if you don't see the proof then you don't deserve to have it explained to you" or "You're too much of a dumbass for it to be explained to" or anything like that.

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Care to counter my arguement rather tham just insult me? Because that's all I see here.
Wow, why is it that everytime someone insults someone else and I insult them back, it's like I'm the first to attack them? I only said to you to stop acting so high and mighty only because you said that:

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Originally Posted by kupoartist
Anyone trying to find a single other logical reason for his employment will fall flat on their face.
You believe you are so right on this matter that anyone else who begs to differ will most definitely fail in finding a reason opposite of yours. Which is why I told you to just calm down because people can have a different outlook than you, so there's no need to act high and mighty and feel as if your reasoning is absolute and everyone must follow/listen to it.


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Originally Posted by kupoartist
So, who's the fanboy now then?
No, this is not fanboyism. I had stated earlier above that:

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Originally Posted by merylsilverburg
My expectations are neutral...I'll just watch it with an open mind and see how I feel.
If I were truly a fanboy then I would've said that: "Gedo is an uber-awesome film, even though I haven't seen it, and Goro Miyazaki is a hero and he's like the greatest director on the planet!!! He soooooo has his father's talent! Yeah! WOOT!" *takes a moment to breathe*

But I didn't. Why? Because I don't know how the film is going to be and I don't know if Goro is a good or bad director. For all I know, he could make one of the worst films in Ghibli history, but I won't know that until I see the damn film. I'm only arguing with you now because I just think it's unfair for you to accuse Goro of being a sellout when you don't have the proof (or since I don't see the proof yet). Am I actually really displaying signs of fanboyism just because I don't see the immoral acts you're accusing of? Or am I really a fanboy just because I believe in fair judgment? Or am I really a fanboy just because I have a little faith and think people deserve a chance and we shouldn't be so suspicious of their employment, regardless of their surname, middle name, secret name, or what have you?
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Last edited by merylsilverburg; Aug 30th, 2006 at 08:34 PM..
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Old Aug 30th, 2006, 11:37 PM   #17
Rei
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Like kupo, I think the choice of letting Miyazaki jr. direct the movie was very smart and cynical. But, I don't think this means the movie is bad. I think maybe people could be expecting different things. The best thing to do is not having expectations at all, especially expectations involving the "Miyazaki" brand. I'll judge the movie after watching it. I don't think the fact Goro Miyazaki is a newbie is evidence the movie is not good. The choice of the studio is cynical, but the man could be talented and I hope so: I prefer watching a movie with a clear eye and be satisfied later, maybe even surprised, than feeling clever saying "I told you this one was going to suck".
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Old Aug 31st, 2006, 05:30 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merylsilverburg
And BTW, I don't want to hear anything stupid or childish like "Well if you don't see the proof then you don't deserve to have it explained to you" or "You're too much of a dumbass for it to be explained to" or anything like that.
No, no. I'm going to make the decision not to reply simply because a fault of my own, that I really cannot be bothered to start the quote wars and try to match a post that long (which I will add, STILL doesn't argue against my points, just claims they don't exist. Which is amusing when you get so much milage out of them.). So sue me. This is for my sanity, yours and the sanity of every single onlooker who ALSO doesn't care where this arguement is going.
Quote:
Originally Posted by merylsilverburg
Wow, why is it that everytime someone insults someone else and I insult them back, it's like I'm the first to attack them? I only said to you to stop acting so high and mighty only because you said that:[/color]
The very first, minor insult was you calling me a fanboy. (sorry, but saying "no offence" really is a synonym for "woah, I said something which I know is harsh and baseless, but hey! if I say no offence i'm covering every base!"). In my reply, I challenge you to find a SINGLE retailiatory remark. There there was then a post each either way with nothing said. Then I posted a challenge. YOU said that I was "high and mighty". I responded to that. You cast stones in my direction twice before I ever did you, so stop acting like a saint.

These are the facts I'm putting forward, or choosing not to because I don't feel they need stating, that apparently have all gone unsaid in this thread or have no basis in truth:

1. Goro Miyazaki shares his surname with his father, Hayao Miyazaki.
2. The Miyazaki surname has recognition and will get people into cinemas.
3. Goro Miyazaki has no animation credentials prior to Gedo Senki.
4. Goro Miyazaki is the director of Gedo Senki, despite there being an entire animation industry who with between 1 to 50 years more experience than him.
5. Practically the entire publicity buildup to Gedo Senki has been about Hayao's distaste at the choice of Goro, the little scuffles and grumbles that both have made in each other's direction.
6. Toshio Suzuki has supposedly further marketed the film on the basis of seeing a great father / son conflict played out.
7. Toshio Suzuki is a buisnessman
8. Ghibli is a Buisness, not some pedestal occupying pillar of moral truth.
9. Buisnesses are all about making smart moves that sell more of your product.
10. The draw of the Miyazaki name would be classed as a "smart move".
11. Cinemas were absolutely packed with people to see Gedo Senki, far more than those who went to see a comparable inter-Hayao film like "The Cat Returns".

And yes I feel that "blind faith" is just fanboyism. Ghibli is a massive commerical concern, a smaller scale Disney, that spins money like nothing else. They're not above earning even more money, no matter how sweet a taste their films may leave in your mouth.

Feel free to have the last word here, but shame on me if i'm stupid enough to reply myself.

Last edited by kupoartist; Aug 31st, 2006 at 05:34 AM..
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Old Aug 31st, 2006, 08:28 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kupoartist
The very first, minor insult was you calling me a fanboy. (sorry, but saying "no offence" really is a synonym for "woah, I said something which I know is harsh and baseless, but hey! if I say no offence i'm covering every base!"). In my reply, I challenge you to find a SINGLE retailiatory remark. There there was then a post each either way with nothing said. Then I posted a challenge. YOU said that I was "high and mighty". I responded to that. You cast stones in my direction twice before I ever did you, so stop acting like a saint.
I'm sorry that I called you a fanboy. I really had no idea you were so upset about it because you never came off as the sensitive type to me. And yeah, maybe "no offense" means that way, but most other people usually understand, depending on how well they know them or how they said it, that they don't mean offense when they say it. Because of the context of my words, I thought you could kinda tell by my tone that I really didn't mean any offense towards you. But maybe my tone came off negative, so you got the wrong idea. So again, I apologize. And as for the challenges, I had no idea you were actually trying to challenge me since it seemed like you were just insulting others who disagreed with you.

And as for your points, I'm just glad to see that you pointed it out because, as unbelievable as it may seem, there were some points that I really didn't think about or see.
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"Have a little priest" ~ Mrs. Lovett

"Grim Reaper, you could not get the women? What was the problem? Didn't you reap them with your grim reaping equipment?"

"I tried that but the women, they all know hopscotch" ~ Eddie Izzard


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Old Jan 4th, 2008, 02:21 PM   #20
Pu the Owl
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I finally got to see this film and I must say I don't understand why is it rated so badly and considered an awful example of animation. I found it very enjoyable to watch. It surely isn't as original and dreamlike as old Miyazaki's works, but it isn't as bad as people describe it either. The animation isn't shabby as I've been reading all this time. The story is more classic than other Studio Ghibli stuff, it's more in the spirit of traditional fantasy tales - I haven't read the books which inspired it so I can't say if the written material is that way too. The narrative structure is simple and free of complex twists. The characters are also more archetypal, less in the realm of "real", like the ones of fairy tales. from some point of view reminded me of the kind of simplification of motives and stories of Ico and Shadow of the Colossus. I don't agree with critics affirming it's unidimensional and flat, as I don't agree with those saying the film in general is overly simplistic in an embarassing way. It's true that the tone is constantly on a more austere and somewhat cryptic level, almost lacks any kind of humour. It just works in a slightly different way that other Studio Ghibli movies, lacks some of the verve we've seen in their other works. I say Goro can do a good job if people will let him to. We just don't have to expect him to be the new Hayao: let him follow his personal path.
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