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[Ice Cold]

I've changed my mind about you Thornn. Your more open minded than I thought, I know I'm not always.

I believe that I was created by God. God created me to glorify him. Yes man does tend to take the focus off god and put it on himself.

THornn, do you believe in Jesus and the Bible?

[Cannibal Clown]

Don't you guys ever take the time and think, "What if they are all right, and that heaven and hell do exist and that about only %25 of all people will go to heaven and the rest will spend FOREVER in a place that is nothing more than a spiritual world where you go through pain and torment for alleternity?" Like think of it. You life is only about 80 to 90 some years long, and hell last you life to the one hundred billionth power. That's one f*cking long time. Do you really want to take that kionda chanse? Imagine never getting a second chanse, and forced to spend all of enternity burning, floating in sub zero temperature water, or drowning in a pit of snakes, of stuck in a circle of demons as they stick their thorned tounges down your throat. People think that hell is a hole under ground, where it's nothing kore than fire and demonds,but in reality, hell, in some christian beliefs hasn't even begun yet. All of those people who have died over the last couple of thousand years, might not have even gone to heaven or hell yet. It's believed that when the world is over with, then the dead shall be ressurected, and we all willbe judged at the same time. Then this world we live on will become hell, and all who don't cross to thropugh the gates of heaven go back to earth. Satan will die, and over three fourths of the world will be left on earth to feel never ending pain and experience unbelievable terror. And when the world does end, most of the people wont even know it. It's believed that every true christian will dissapear completly, leaving only their clothes, teeth fillings,and whatever they had that was not natural on the ground. Every one else will be left here,wondering what the f*ck happened as they soon realize that the end has come, and that they will vbery soon die, and go to hell. There is supposed to be some sort of huge thingy that happens, causing nearly all of the people left on earth to die, and the rest are pretty much doomed to go to hell when they die as well.

I'm not very smart when it comes to the bible, hell, heaven, what is supposed to happen afterwards, and what not. So if anyone can correct me on what i just said, please do so. I know that i'm not very clear on what the seven circles of damnation are, or how the devil will die, or ewhat all of the forms of tortor are either.

But i like to think of my christianity as a "Better safe than sorry thing."

Like, perhaps there is no heaven or hell, and when we die, we die. But if there is, i'm going to make sure that i know exactly where i'm going.

[BlackThornn]

I believe in Jesus because of my upbringing.. but the Bible was not even written by the SON of god.. It was written by a man, Paul the Apostle, I believe.. who probably had his own opinions, his own ideas.. and his own slant on writing it.

Men, looking to create order and safety, or to maintain and/or gain power, Idunno, took it upon themselves to declare Paul's words the word of God. This is wrong; 'cause God hasn't written anything.

The old testament is folktales.. I have NEVER put any real stock in that. God has far too much on his mind (come on.. the entire cosmos) to worry about one city, or one man, or even one world.

I think that god is utterly indescribable and incomprehensible by man.. and that we assume he made us in his image because we are the dominant species on this planet.. But even when I consider that I believe that Jesus was his son, a son that advocated nothing but love for other humans and kindness to all god's creatures, God has been MIA from any kind of direct intervention for millenia.

God was a guiding hand in evolution.. he gave the power of life (and life energy: IE the bioelectric charge that runs your brain.. or a soul, if you will) to EVERY creature.. not just humans. That's why I believe in an after life too. Paraphrazing Einstein: "Energy cannot die.. it can only change form.."

Anyway.. I've gotten off track.

I believe in Jesus mostly because he was the bastion of love and kindness for me in my early life. He was how I was raised. I believe he was the son of god because of that.. but even when logic prevails I think he existed.. just that he was a groovy guy that did his best to stop violence from completely and utterly destroying humankind.. and for that he somehow gained God's favor, if that's possible.

I however do not believe in the bible, at least not in taking it as the word of God.

I believe in a heaven and a hell, because while God is busy he probably at least has some judgement over who goes on to the "good" next life and who to a "bad" next life.. if nothing else than an attempt to filter out any bad influences from a higher plane. BUT, I think that the only thing god asks is that you try your best to be a "good" human being.. I don't think that any superficial differences (race color, lifestyle choice, homosexuality or masturbation... or eating pork or not being jewish) make the slightest bit of difference to him.. That's man talking. It is my personal belief that if you go through life not harming (or at least trying not to) all of God's creatures for a reason other than survival then you'll get into the pearly gates I was indoctrinated to believe existed. If you go around raping, pilliaging, conquering, and killing when there is absolutely no aspect of survival to it, then you are going to the fire, with all of the other universal rejects.

EDIT: Cannibal.. ugh. I'm sorry dude, but that's just kinda naive. Mankind invented those rules. A "Better Safe Than Sorry" attitude is all well and good, but that is just supposed to include you. You're not supposed to go around casting judgement on others and condemning them.

If you know the cheat sheet of getting into heaven, try and convince your closest friends so they'll go with you, if not, please just sit down.

...and it wouldn't be 25%. If you go by that crap the pope spouts every male ever concieved would be in hell, along with most females. The population of heaven would be in double digits while hell would be in the 80 digit range about now, and that's just for earth.. That's just inefficiency, man. Not something God's exactly known for.

[Vicious_2003]

(Just like to thank you guys for the mature and well thought out responses, for a minute I expected alot of Fu*k off's and no one cares, but I can see that you guys know your stuff. But lets face it one of the major goals of a religious is recruiting, I guess I worded it wrong when i said forcing thier religious on people. Recruiting ? I mean if we are gods creations whey doesent he drop by every once ina while or atleast give us a clear sign of his existance. Im not completely denieing the existence of god or a god. For all i know Booda could be up there. My point is there is no possible way for people to be even close to sure of the existance of heaven , hell, or even Jesus (As the son of christ) sence it is just about proven that a man that went by the name of jesus existed. I think that he was a brilliant philosopher who preached of good morals and was gifted in modern medisines. The uneducated isrealites at the time saw his doings and as many ancient people did related them to a higher religious power, eventually it became wide spread and all the details were added by scribes. Who basically glorified every thing that happened. But those are just my beleifs. But seriously without lieing how many of you were born into your religious and were TOUGHT to belive what you belive in be it christianity or whatever. Im guessign that over 89 % of you were tought form an extreemly early age to beleive whole haertedly in what your parents wanted you to, you werent given a choice . See I grew up with my mother who never exposed me or brain washed I mean tought me a religious . She has left it up to me . I am 18 now and I have been privlidged with a choice of what I as a person will belive in. And after a little research, yes I read the bible and allowed my father, a born again christian who is very very religious to try and turn me. But after lookign at what christianity has brought on the world ( look at the puritans they killed good honest people just because someoen called them a witch, and kepe in mind thats what your christianity used to be thats what america was founded on. And now after taking a good honest look at some religions I ask tell myself i need more, somehting substantial, lets face it an athiest and a Christian in a court are arguing over religioun the athiest could present tons of scientific findings that contradict what the bible says, and the bible would be unaccepted as any proof seing as how it has no authoer or facts to back it up. Bottom line is that any educated person that wasnt brain washed into beleiving one religious or another and wasnt just bottom line desperate and depressed looking for some hope would choose to be an athiest or atleast undenominational, i am a cross between the 2. And I know some of you will say because ive heard this before " I am 18 (or older) and I could change my religious in a heartbeat if I wanted to but I truly belive in this with my heart and sole my parents arent a factor in what I belive in anymore". But lets face it you grow up form the age 1 to 17, 18 or 19 believing blindly in what your parents have tought you your NOT going to throw away somehting that youve belived in for all your life its easier just to continue beliveing in it. And last thing is, you say its not a clear clack and white thing, how do you know, its like every single christian has it figured out on thier own, but lets face it god isnt 100 different people (representing 100 different people ideas of what he is) He is (If he exists) one man and has been for as long as hes existed therefor every religioun is a contradiction of the other and the odds a YOU ARE ALL COMPLETELY WORNG ABOUT HIM (Im no more right than any of you but atleast i admit that I just flat out have no idea who rules this earth you all belive in some book that has no proven significance and is prolly like i said a collection of wirtings about seemingly great things that happened glorified and greatly greatly Exaggerated without the application of modern scientific knowledge that disporves all of it. And jesus the great philosopher that he was quickly became the center of this book. (Anyways those are just my beliefs, I have mine U have yours, thanks for the feedback

[Killuminati]

i do not believe in a god, i think it is a bunch of made-up crap that some people made up to make a grab for power. thats all religon has ever been good for. bringing people power. look at medieval Europe, the pope basically had more power than the Kings of that time. I dont believe in science wholly either. i think that there are some things that science cant explain but i dont turn to religon for an answer. like if a "health miracle" or somethin happens and science cant prove it im not gonna go and say "musta been god/allah/whatever". i speak from a person who used to be a christian and was well educated in it. but now im 15 years old and have broken basically all ten commandments.
religon has only brought pain and suffering in my opinion. i think that alot of people believe in it just ato use as a beacon of hope to cling to. i mean tahts ok but if they blindly follow it i think they will lose part of themselves. anyway thats my take on things
peace out

[BlackThornn]

That's religion that is used to grab power, Xilophore..

Think about it.. There's quite literally trillions of cells working in the human body, and in every creature on the earth there are comparable amounts or vastly more. The sheer complexity of the galaxy and beyond... it cannot just be random.

I'm not gonna try to just convince you that there's a god, though. I mean, God probably doesn't care wether you agknowledge his invisible-man-in-the-sky magnificence.. as long as you don't go around hurting things too bad you'll be fine, I believe. You don't go around killing things left and right, do ya?

Again, RELIGION has brought pain and suffering.. More people have died in the name of religion than for any other cause.. but you're confusing organized religion created by man with whatever being started it all.

Weapon... punctuation, dude.. I can't even read that thingy.

[Sid554]

Originally posted by Weapon_XZ84
(Just like to thank you guys for the mature and well thought out responses, for a minute I expected alot of Fu*k off's and no one cares, but I can see that you guys know your stuff. But lets face it one of the major goals of a religious is recruiting, I guess I worded it wrong when i said forcing thier religious on people. Recruiting ? I mean if we are gods creations whey doesent he drop by every once ina while or atleast give us a clear sign of his existance. Im not completely denieing the existence of god or a god. For all i know Booda could be up there. My point is there is no possible way for people to be even close to sure of the existance of heaven , hell, or even Jesus (As the son of christ) sence it is just about proven that a man that went by the name of jesus existed. I think that he was a brilliant philosopher who preached of good morals and was gifted in modern medisines. The uneducated isrealites at the time saw his doings and as many ancient people did related them to a higher religious power, eventually it became wide spread and all the details were added by scribes. Who basically glorified every thing that happened. But those are just my beleifs. But seriously without lieing how many of you were born into your religious and were TOUGHT to belive what you belive in be it christianity or whatever. Im guessign that over 89 % of you were tought form an extreemly early age to beleive whole haertedly in what your parents wanted you to, you werent given a choice . See I grew up with my mother who never exposed me or brain washed I mean tought me a religious . She has left it up to me . I am 18 now and I have been privlidged with a choice of what I as a person will belive in. And after a little research, yes I read the bible and allowed my father, a born again christian who is very very religious to try and turn me. But after lookign at what christianity has brought on the world ( look at the puritans they killed good honest people just because someoen called them a witch, and kepe in mind thats what your christianity used to be thats what america was founded on. And now after taking a good honest look at some religions I ask tell myself i need more, somehting substantial, lets face it an athiest and a Christian in a court are arguing over religioun the athiest could present tons of scientific findings that contradict what the bible says, and the bible would be unaccepted as any proof seing as how it has no authoer or facts to back it up. Bottom line is that any educated person that wasnt brain washed into beleiving one religious or another and wasnt just bottom line desperate and depressed looking for some hope would choose to be an athiest or atleast undenominational, i am a cross between the 2. And I know some of you will say because ive heard this before " I am 18 (or older) and I could change my religious in a heartbeat if I wanted to but I truly belive in this with my heart and sole my parents arent a factor in what I belive in anymore". But lets face it you grow up form the age 1 to 17, 18 or 19 believing blindly in what your parents have tought you your NOT going to throw away somehting that youve belived in for all your life its easier just to continue beliveing in it. And last thing is, you say its not a clear clack and white thing, how do you know, its like every single christian has it figured out on thier own, but lets face it god isnt 100 different people (representing 100 different people ideas of what he is) He is (If he exists) one man and has been for as long as hes existed therefor every religioun is a contradiction of the other and the odds a YOU ARE ALL COMPLETELY WORNG ABOUT HIM (Im no more right than any of you but atleast i admit that I just flat out have no idea who rules this earth you all belive in some book that has no proven significance and is prolly like i said a collection of wirtings about seemingly great things that happened glorified and greatly greatly Exaggerated without the application of modern scientific knowledge that disporves all of it. And jesus the great philosopher that he was quickly became the center of this book. (Anyways those are just my beliefs, I have mine U have yours, thanks for the feedback

Dude,are you writin' a book or something?

[Vicious_2003]

Nah its just one of my favorite subjects. And being that I have a father who used to do drugs and race cars illegally, breaking commandments left and right, then suddenly he leaves my mother forgets me and has 4 kids with a religioun freak of a woman and suddenly he's all "I live to glorify god, non christians are lost souls" anyways...where was I, oh anyways thats my dad and hes been trying to turn me for the past 18 years. He cares more about his religious now than me or anyone else. And yet another thing crosses my mind, how can soemone selfish enough to create life in order to glorify himslef be a good person ?? or is vanity like a religious pillar or somehting ?. Dont answer that this thread is just about finished, religioun is too big a deal to be simply debated between a few ppl in a message board . Ill continue to belive what I belive as ofcourse will all of you fine people

[Serj]

I don't belive in god. I don't have a religion. I'm happier this way.

[kupoartist]

Originally posted by BlackThornn
Think about it.. There's quite literally trillions of cells working in the human body, and in every creature on the earth there are comparable amounts or vastly more. The sheer complexity of the galaxy and beyond... it cannot just be random.

whilst this is true, its not like the universe began 25 days ago. Over the period of Billions of years we know this universe has exisited, its entirely possible, if not certain that little acts of randomness will occur....

[007_JamesBond]

this is insane.

but my view upon religion are very simple, I beleive what I beleive and what I want to and no one can change my mind about what I should beleive. I do as I please and that is all

[Sid554]

Originally posted by 007_JamesBond
this is insane.

but my view upon religion are very simple, I beleive what I beleive and what I want to and no one can change my mind about what I should beleive. I do as I please and that is all

I think that pretty much sums it all up. Believe what you will.

[Vicious_2003]

Agreed

[BlackThornn]

artist: True that the universe didn't start 25 days ago, but it would be a stretch of the imagination, at least for me, to think that everything was completely random, and that animals, and humans, and whatever myriad of life out there, was the act of some cosmic accident.. and how did that accident (big bang) start from nothingness?

I understand where you're coming from being sceptical about god (I'm assuming that you're an atheist from your posts. ), and you make good points.. but it's pretty much a choice of "God exists, we're not accidents, there's something after our flesh expires" or "We're completely random. Everything's random, there is no purpose of existing and we are just a fluke that for some reason keeps reproducing and reproducing and reproducing.. There are no souls and nothing after our flesh expires, we're not gonna see our dead pets or family afterward and the concept of sentience is utterly pointless since the spark of thought expires with the body." I'd rather be erring on the side that there is a god.. not because I fear some kind of retribution (again.. the guy runs the whole universe.. I doubt he really cares.), but simply because the second is entirely too depressing..

007: ..uh.. you start off with "This is insane!" then end up with what seems to be an "each to thier own" statement?

..I don't believe anyone here is trying to convert. We are merely discussing our own views. Some more..... curtly.. than others, of course.

[kupoartist]

Originally posted by BlackThornn
I understand where you're coming from being sceptical about god (I'm assuming that you're an atheist from your posts. ), and you make good points.. but it's pretty much a choice of "God exists, we're not accidents, there's something after our flesh expires" or "We're completely random. Everything's random, there is no purpose of existing and we are just a fluke that for some reason keeps reproducing and reproducing and reproducing.. There are no souls and nothing after our flesh expires, we're not gonna see our dead pets or family afterward and the concept of sentience is utterly pointless since the spark of thought expires with the body." I'd rather be erring on the side that there is a god.. not because I fear some kind of retribution (again.. the guy runs the whole universe.. I doubt he really cares.), but simply because the second is entirely too depressing..

hmmm... I actually had a really bad arguement with a guy other this a few months ago. Strange thing is, he was the one telling me that our only purpose is to pass on our DNA and cop it ^_^ (though i'm not sure if that was a theory, or whether he just thinks about sex alot )

I don't believe in god, but I do try to look at things with a little more wonder than the classic Atheist would... as such I suppose I do try to be open to ideas (as long as the don't oppress or exclude...) Just don't expect to see me in Heaven or whatever if I'm getting it wrong

Edit: and I totally agree with how its either one choice or the other. In the end though, its a choice I'm probably not all-knowing enough to make

[007_JamesBond]

yes I know blackthorn but all I was doing was expressing my viewpoints upon the subject, thats all

[Vicious_2003]

Yah I try (Maybe not hard enough) to be open minded about everything, dont know where I end up, wherever it is I hope they have internet access