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[Vicious_2003]

Yes, its hard to call yourself a fan of punk music if you dont have some kind of knowledge/respect fo where it came from. But i dont see why theres so much resentment towards GC and Avril Livegne. I mean would you rather have them completely rip off bands like "The clash" etc . You may not like the sound of it but remember there are a lot of younger people who never got the exposure to the classic punk bands you did.

Im not a big fan of "GC" or Avril myself but i wouldnt like someone telling me that my bands are trash, and i dont know real rock just because I dont go around blasting Metallica or Led Zepplin all day. But i do get what your saying though. Like when GC is on TRl and theres all these young girls wearing there torn up classic t shirts and ties with colorful non mathcing socks posing as real punk fans. When you know there probably the girls that just got off the N Sync/Backstreat bandwagon. Kinda sad really

[merylsilverburg]

Originally posted by Vicious_2003

Yes, its hard to call yourself a fan of punk music if you dont have some kind of knowledge/respect fo where it came from. But i dont see why theres so much resentment towards GC and Avril Livegne. I mean would you rather have them completely rip off bands like "The clash" etc . You may not like the sound of it but remember there are a lot of younger people who never got the exposure to the classic punk bands you did.

Im not a big fan of "GC" or Avril myself but i wouldnt like someone telling me that my bands are trash, and i dont know real rock just because I dont go around blasting Metallica or Led Zepplin all day.

That's true, but I think that what real fans of punk music are saying is that if you're a true fan, you'd go back and look up all the classic and real punk groups of the past. I probably would if I was a true fan, but it's different for everyone. I understand what you're saying though.

But i do get what your saying though. Like when GC is on TRl and theres all these young girls wearing there torn up classic t shirts and ties with colorful non mathcing socks posing as real punk fans. When you know there probably the girls that just got off the N Sync/Backstreat bandwagon. Kinda sad really

Right, that's what I'm talking about. Those girls who say they love Avril and the others are the same people who listened to those pop groups and went crazy for them. When this punk wave came through, I was just thinking that true fans of punk must've want to spit at them.

[Vicious_2003]

Right, that's what I'm talking about. Those girls who say they love Avril and the others are the same people who listened to those pop groups and went crazy for them. When this punk wave came through, I was just thinking that true fans of punk must've want to spit at them

Those kind of people just jump on the next bandwagon regaurdless of how good the music is. They leech onto celebrities in hopes of living vicariously through them. Its not about music, its about image. Heck watch the latest TRl videos, more is focused on making the singer look and act sexy than on how good there song is or how good it is sung. And these teenie bopping morrons go for that shit, it really does make me sick. There are thousands of people all over the world that deserve admiration and we give it to people like Aguilara, Spears, Ruben from the idol show, Kelly. I mean give me a break, how shollow and mindless can you get

[Berserker]

I've got no problem with the music people listen to, but I do have a problem with the whole "I'm more punk than you because of the way I dress" -attitude. The same goes for all the hip-hop wannabes and pretty much every young kid nowadays. I don't know how it is around your area but it seems like everyone wants to be so damn tough they walk down the street giving everybody they see the eye and thinking their the mack-daddy and the own the s$#@. Mostly I can just laugh at their youthful stupidity but somedays when I have a bad day it really pisses me off. I guess it's the just the sign of the times or something I don't know.

It's cool when kids get to know the classics through new bands, like when those guys from sum41 keep telling their fans about how they're influenced by Priest, Slayer etc. IMO that's the way it should be give the older bands some credit for your worldwide succes most of the old bands never made shit of their music.

[Redpyramidhead]

Originally posted by merylsilverburg

That's true, but I think that what real fans of punk music are saying is that if you're a true fan, you'd go back and look up all the classic and real punk groups of the past. I probably would if I was a true fan, but it's different for everyone. I understand what you're saying though.



Right, that's what I'm talking about. Those girls who say they love Avril and the others are the same people who listened to those pop groups and went crazy for them. When this punk wave came through, I was just thinking that true fans of punk must've want to spit at them.

Avril Lavigne is punk?!?!?? What??!??!???


_RED_ stuff

[Pu the Owl]

Nobody's saying you cannot like Green Day, Avril Lavigne or Good Charlotte. It's a matter of (bad) taste: you can like whatever you want. The fact is that this music is being labeled as punk, while it has nothing to do with real punk music, first of all because of the message. Punk music has a kind of message that you can dislike, but that is not the kind of trite message of all these pseudo-angsty teenagers, that like to repeat all day: "I hate you! I'm so fucked up, leave me alone!". Jesus Christ, is that punk? And is it even more punk-style to dress up like billions of other teenagers? At the time punk was born, being punk meant being "different" not in a fashionable way... And punk music was so powerful because punk bands were involved, politically and socially. Now, saying governements suck ain't a very deep analysis, but still the greatest part of new punkish bands are unable to say something so banal. And if they say it, they don't dare to explain reasons and consequences. They can only repeat "This sucks, you suck, I suck, suck suck suck!" There's more polical accusation in country/folk music than in those punk wannabes, who in fact are more politically correct than anybody else on this planet. I bet even a Smurf could be less polically correct than them! And I'm sure that if thse punkish kids can manage to dress a little better for a day or two, the Pope could even decide to invite them

Spears is terrible as a singer, but at least you know what you have to expect from one of her albums. Aguilera is even more irritating than Spears IMO, because she even tried to sound clever in some songs (I mean, her producers wanted her to sound clever), which is utterly disgusting. And there are persons around, not only kids (which is scary!), who are saying "Oh, listen to Aguilera! She's very clever in this song, and sincere!". Please...

[MakgSnake]

Hey dan, yeah I did hear about him stopping the rapping things and just getting into being a producer. I didn't know about the acting thing though. BUT he should release atleast two more albums, then he can rest and all.

NEWAY, back to the topic. Britney getting a star eh........ well as most of us its hard to digest that news, but think about it.....may be she deserve it. Alright we can say she slept with 50 very well know people in the industry for that, who knows.......but we can also see she has a HUGE fan base! That must say something.... she is very very popular.

Its just one thing I DONT UNDERSTAND......all the people that I have met...and I AM NOT being sarcastic or anything... I have never in my life met a Britney Fan......... male/female.... I am pretty sure you people have but I havn't.......and I always wonder where ARE ALL THOSE PEOPLE who LOVE Britney to death..how come I have never met any of em. Its soo weird, when I think about it.

But she has sold albums and well is very very succussful, so I think she deserve it......I guess (Dont gang up on me now).

As for Punk Music.......... many people here are not agreeing that the new people in music whos music is called "PUNK"...is a bad thing. But isn't it possible that PUNK music can change......I mean does it have to STAY the way it was 10 years ago?....Cant it change or translate into something new?........Rap has changed in years and so has R&B, why cant Punk be in the system we call "Evolution"..... may be its growing. Just wondering........

[Vicious_2003]

Its just one thing I DONT UNDERSTAND......all the people that I have met...and I AM NOT being sarcastic or anything... I have never in my life met a Britney Fan......... male/female.... I am pretty sure you people have but I havn't.......and I always wonder where ARE ALL THOSE PEOPLE who LOVE Britney to death..how come I have never met any of em. Its soo weird, when I think about it.

Thats because most people who like Spears are afriad to admit it in public. The really hardcore fans will but most will just go out and buy the cd listen to it and never talk about it. Spears and Aguilara get trashed talked so much people wont admit to liestening to there music. If they were real fans of her music theyd say it loud and proud, but again there teenie boppers who are obsessed with her image, not as much her music. Also lets not forget there are a suprising amount of younger girls listening to spears minda music, im talking 10-13 young

I talked to a friend of mine not too long ago and I distinctly remember her saying "Spears is a slut i wouldnt listen to her crap". And the next week I walk in and shes got spears latest CD she just bought playing and she knows all the words. It truly is a bit strange

And as for Punk i realise what your all saying now. All I want to say is try not to diss the artists to much just because some of the people who liesten to them are posers. i realise you guys arent, but i hear it happen alot in everyday situations. Atleast Livegne has a voice and sings songs SHE wrote that have MEANING. I mean, she could go the way of aguilara and just sing about boyfriends and getting dirty

[Rei]

She got a Star, huh? Well, who cares? If this makes of her a satisfied person, let her be. Her music is so bad that I'd be worried about it: being her, instead of going here and there getting Stars and appearing in TV shows, I'd learn to sing

[stormshadow]

For once in my life I am speechless.

[Azuma_Ninja]

Come on Britney forget the star and get going with your main purpose in life. Adult Entertainmet

[Rei]

Originally posted by MakgSnake


As for Punk Music.......... many people here are not agreeing that the new people in music whos music is called "PUNK"...is a bad thing. But isn't it possible that PUNK music can change......I mean does it have to STAY the way it was 10 years ago?....Cant it change or translate into something new?........Rap has changed in years and so has R&B, why cant Punk be in the system we call "Evolution"..... may be its growing. Just wondering........

Well Makg, talking about Rap is one thing, and talking about Punk is another. Rap is a wider category than Punk is. Punk music is a sub-genre, and sub-genres very often depend on a peculiar period of time. Punk music is mainly a product of the 70's. In the 80's we had the New Wave, which was a sort of derivation of Punk and that also meant the "death" of the genre (like the name "new wave" itself says). Many other genres, like Goth and so on, are born thanks to New Wave and Post Punk music (which more or less were the same thing). In brief, real Punk music died with the New Wave, and this is one of the reasons you can't call nowadays music, even if it sounds like punk music, "Punk". There have been many sub-categories of punk, but anyways, as someone said, punk music is different in spirit. Dressing like Johnny Rotten is not being punk. It's being stupid

[MakgSnake]

But thats like your putting a STAMP on the Punk music that was created in the 70's and saying that was PUNK and NOTHING else could ever be anything close to it.

Its like saying the way I looked in 1984 was the real me and now I have changed in looks in 2003, I am not the real me, I have changed through time because the way I dress and the way my hair is now......... (<--- Am I making any sense there).?. Just like that........ other genres were created after PUNK, which and just because they dont sound EXACTLY like "PUNK" doesn't mean we cannot call it PUNK.

I guess from your theory or whatever it is...... we can only say, today's PUNK music is only the songs of 70's that are RE-DONE by today's star. Other wise anything like even sounds like PUNK should not be called that............ I say, why not!.! Things change, people change, but not their names.

[Rei]

Makg, that's not the point of my post.

Just take for example a sub-category of Jazz music, ok? Jazz music is categorised in sub-genres, and many of these sub-genres are connected to the period and location of their birth. If you take one of these genres, for example the "Bebop" (which is, if I'm not wrong, a product of the 40's) and imitate it, creating new pieces of music with same style and rhythm and everything to make them sound like original old Bebop music, that won't make of them music that can be considered part of the genre in any case. History of music works like that. It's discographers who often find useful to recycle old terms to gain the attention of the audience.
Punk is a sub-sub-sub etc... product of Rock music, as it is Grunge. But would you call a bunch of kids in large trousers and jumpers grunge nowadays and ouside a certain area? No way! While probably discographers will do it, in a couple of years, or maybe in ten years. They will label these records saying "Grunge is alive!" to sell more. The recipe can be called in a certain way if you have all the ingredients. If you start changing ingredients, only taking care that the taste is similar, average people won't probably notice, but that is not the original recipe. Speaking of a type of music like Punk, if you start changing the era (which in the first place is what made punk be so alive and effective), the purposes, the spirit, and you only preserve the very simple guitar riffs, the fast-paced rhythm, and the haircut, that won't make of it punk music.

Just to make it clearer, Punk wasn't a product of discographers. When Punk started to emerge, it was genuinely upsetting and "obscene".
While now we have kids with their mommies who send them to the hairdresser to make them look better on group shots, or we have producers who pay make-up artists and buy them expensive clothes and accessories to make them look genuine. Which is completely against the idea of punk spirit. Avril Lavigne, who's incredibly being labeled as punk everywhere, is probably the sweetest and most "innocent" rockstar ever (take these words with some irony...). The point is that she looks and sounds a lot more like Hanson than like a punk musician. And what about Good Charlotte and similar bands? They speak in interviews saying they've been bullied at school so they wanted to be different blah blah blah... Here I find the premises to be wrong. To confirm this, they go around playing songs which are all but upsetting, revolutionary, powerful especially speaking of content. They express a sort of teenage-angst you can find anywhere, from cartoons to MTV, because it's pre-made, it's fake, it's refined by those who spend money on these bands and it has to sound good enough to make teenagers think "Hey, that is just like me! From now on I'm Punk!" so that Good Charlotte & Co. can sell more. Do you call them punk only because of their clothes or because of the global sound? If so, Madonna could decide to make a punk album tomorrow and you'll have to call her punk too. That's completely wrong IMO.

[Pu the Owl]

Originally posted by Rei

being her, instead of going here and there getting Stars and appearing in TV shows, I'd learn to sing

For singers like Britney Spears, singing is optional and music is even more optional than the singing part. All they have to do is wear the right clothes to reveal their butts
But we already know that...