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Old May 22nd, 2008, 02:10 PM   #1
jjmoohead
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Bioshock Coming to PS3

So its been pretty much anything but officially confirmed. However its all over the net now and is in the PSM UK magazine that will hit the shelves on June 6th.

Now admittedly this game didn't really impress me all that much and I really think it got a bit of an advertising bump from most of the big review websites. However I am a little intrigued by them saying that the game is supposed to be better then the 360 version.

Does this mean its just going to look better cause of the waiting period to release it or does it mean that there is more content? Either way, a game I once cared nothing about, now has my attention. Does it mean I will by it? I will wait for more details before I make judgment.
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Old May 26th, 2008, 12:48 AM   #2
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I'm glad more people will get to play what was my favorite game of 07 but I don't think it'll make much of an impact sales wise. PS3 games don't seem to cut it in software sales, even if the version is superior. I'm interested if there is extra content in it, if it will make it way via Xbox Live or be PS3 exclusive.
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Old May 26th, 2008, 09:47 AM   #3
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Yeah I don't think it will sell an unreal amount of games by any means. Lets face it, there are already way to many FPS games on the market. You have to remember that the PS3 doesn't pertain to just one type of gamer either. There are so many different styles of games on the PS3 that you don't see a huge amount of first day buyers for many games.

With the 360's main focus being FPS since thats what the US demographic plays, any time you have even a slightly above par shooter it will sell like its the only game available. In some cases because it is. Not saying the 360 doesn't have other games, its just that the core of the best sellers are FPS.

The thing we are seeing this generation is that if an 360 game is going to sell well, it will do so within the first week. Its a good judge on how well the game will do. If it doesn't have an exceptional first week, it won't do well overall. With the PS3 however, the games sell well over time. It doesn't have to be an exceptional first week. The proof of this is in the attach rate. PS3 started off at launch at around 1.5:1 and now is closer to 5:1. The 360 started off around 5:1 at launch and is now at 7:1.

You buy a 360 today and you your looking at getting 1 of 7 games, Halo 3, Bioshock, Mass Effect, Gears Of War, The Orange Box, GTA4 and COD4.

You look at most peoples 360 collection and I bet most of them have these games. There is nothing wrong with that, they are great games, but something else that is similar with them other then the majority being FPS is that they all sold a lots in their first month and have since slowed down in weekly sales.

On the other hand, with the PS3 you are looking at games like GTA4, COD4, Ratchet and Clank, Uncharted, Resistance, Warhawk and Motorstorm (or even GT: P now)

The difference is that in the 7 big games listed for both systems (yes I realize that there are others that could fit in here) that the majority of the ones on 360 are FPS and only 2 out of the 7 on PS3 are FPS. So you see the PS3's best games give diversity. Which means not everyone is going to pick up every single title. Some don't like racing, some don't like FPS, some don't like platforms. Its only reasonable to see that they won't sell a bunch the first week cause not everyone plays all those styles. What this means is that you have lots of different demography in the PS3 community. Some like racers, some like FPS, some like platform, some like RPG. Not many love them all though. So what you see is games not selling fast early, but gradually over time. Look at Uncharted, it didn't sell huge at the start, but is still to this day selling consistently.

If you take me for example I have never been a fan of FPS on consoles. I don't like the controls after playing games like Counter Strike on PC for so many years. It was this reason and this reason alone that I didn't get a 360 in the beginning cause the only really solid games they had were FPS and I didn't play FPS on consoles. In fact I didn't play FPS on consoles at all until COD4 when a friend of mine convinced me to pick up so we could play online together. Surprisingly I enjoyed it although still not happy with the controls. It did allow me to try out other FPS games on the PS3 though that I would have otherwise let slip past.

Now don't get me wrong, the 360 is a good system, it has fun games. However the owners are hardcore and you give them a simple game with simple gameplay and simple story and it will sell like mad. Its actually a pretty impressive formula done my MS. They could release a halfassed version of Halo 4 and it will sell Millions the first week. Although some would argue that they already did that with Halo 3.

So in conclusion (wow this went way longer then intended) your right, I don't expect bioshock to sell nearly what the 360 did, there are just not enough hardcore FPS people for it to make a huge dint. The general thought when it comes to PS3 owners is that they are a very well spread out demographic of game lovers, where the 360 are hardcore FPS fans. Games won't nessessarily sell huge on the first few days for the PS3 but we will see large sales over time. On the 360 though, we will see large sales early, but practically stop selling after that.
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Old May 26th, 2008, 02:55 PM   #4
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You do know there are just as many different styles of games on the 360 right? Yes FPS makes up a significant chunk, that's always been MS bread and butter but the 360 has just as many diversified games as the PS3. Saying its all FPS would just be the same thing as saying all the PS3 has is third person shooters. It also helps that FPS games perform very well control wise on the 360, nothing to match a PC but the set-up is pretty well. From my experience with FPS on the Sony platform since the PS1 days, they never felt or controlled exactly "right" which is why MS has gotten most of its success from FPS, the fact they control really well on the 360 controller. Plus with online gaming being how huge it is these days, MS Live system only makes it a better fit.

I feel if you had a 360, you'd have a much better response and time with a game such as CoD4.

As for sales, I agree there too. But if PS3 was in MS position in terms of sales and power like the PS2 days, the same thing would happen. "If it doesn't do well in a week, it's nothing." All that would change is the face and who's sitting on the throne, so personally don't feel this matters as much.

I own all those 360 titles (except Halo 3, I stopped caring for the series when Halo 2 was a bomb) but I have twenty other games that aren't even remotely FPS games, or even shooters to mask the FPS chunk by miles. Also, CoD4 on the 360 still manages to sell a ridiculous amount, despite being months old. Which brings me to another fact, publishers and companies don't want games to "sell well overtime" with how much it costs to make games these days, you want that investment back as soon as humanly possible. That's the nature of business and one of the reasons why the PS3 is still in a sore spot.

Online gaming isn't for everybody, and not all that huge on PSN so Warhawk I feel is an acquired taste game for being online only, and racing isn't as big as it uses to be so Motorstorm is also a bit moot as well. Considering that game didn't live up to the hype. Games like Dead Rising and Lost Planet, coming out on the 360, managing to sell millions and not be FPS games at all. While the PS3 version of Lost Planet underperforms and didn't make the sales. GTAIV and CoD4 also out performed the PS3 versions by leaps and bounds, which is what the companies want. A game to sell as fast as possible so they can make back that investment quickly, and go on to produce/make other games with that money. Games selling overtime doesn't count as much in this generation.

Some PS3 users like racing, some like third person shooters, some like racing. How does Lost Odyssey, Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon (RPG's), Dead Rising, Lost Planet, Crackdown, (third person games), Project Gotham Racing 4, Forza Motorsport 2 (Racing) grab you? And all these games sold very well. So I can throw the same argument you are throwing at me, the 360 has just as much game diversity. Uncharted also still sells well to this day consistently because it's one of the few high profile games on the system worth playing, it also help that it's exclusive. Whenever a multiplatform title comes out, the 360 version out performs, while the PS3 version is in the back. A game still raking in sells is good, but as I said the videogame industry is shrewd. These publishers and companies want games to sell as many copies as soon as possible, if they don't they may not give that company a shot at this game again, or worse close them down or even lay off some people. Selling a trickle over time is not what's desired. I don't agree with it, but it's the nature of business.

I'm a tad bit offended by the fact of "give them a simple story, with simple gameplay and it'll sell like mad." this can imply for PS3. What do you do in Uncharted? You shoot some dudes in the face with guns and follow a story that is akin to a Jerry Bruckheimer or Michael Bay film, which are easy to follow. What do you do in Resistance? You shoot aliens in the face while told what to do every step of the way. The stories of those games are not complicated as well, so Sony is just as guilty of doing this. It's not a goldmine tapped only by MS, EVERYONE does it. Why? Because it brings in the cash. So it seems to me you just not played all that the 360 has to offer and are making baseless assumptions because the 360 is not your console of choice. Play Bioshock, Mass Effect, Eternal Sonata, Ace Combat 6, and Lost Odyssey and get back to me. The Halo 4 half ass this game formula really only applies to that game, because of how rabid the fan base. Just like how you can release anything in the Final Fantasy line on a Sony Platform and regardless of how half-assed or junk it is, that game will also sell like hot cakes laced with cocaine.

There are just as many 360 owners who don't go all hot and bothered just for FPS. This is just making baseless accusations. FPS make a huge chunk of this market, yes but that's also because it's what's extremely popular now, just like platformers were in the days of old. If the PS3 had a more installed base, a better online service, and not getting trash versions of FPS games on multiplatform releases, FPS would be doing JUST as well on that platform. I think CoD4 being one of the PS3's highest selling games, even more so then Uncharted, an original IP that's not an FPS already proves this point.

Again, there are plenty of 360 games that sell over time as well, but it's not needed when you have that install base that can buy them. If a game sells a million or half a million in a week, the goal of the publishers and companies has been met and they are happy. There are still games in the top 20 or so lists that are older 360 titles as well, just the same for the PS3. If a game is good, regardless of what it is the game will still take in sales.

Plus, while Bioshock may be an FPS that game goes leaps and bounds beyond "simple gameplay and simple story." You'll know this once you play it. There's a reason why it was one of the highest selling games of 07 and got quite a bit of GOTY awards, it being a shooter was not the end all reason.
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Old May 26th, 2008, 09:16 PM   #5
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Yes I am aware that there are many different styles of games on the 360. I am also aware that many different styles are not nearly as talked about or highly praised though. I clearly stated that "Now don't get me wrong, the 360 is a good system, it has fun games." However I don't get how you can argue that the most celebrated and highly touted games on the system are a majority FPS. I am not really sure how saying all games on PS3 are FPS though, most of the top games are not FPS at all. You will also notice that the non-fps games also don't sell at the same rate as FPS's do for the 360. There is the odd acception, but for the most part its the FPS games that sell Millions the first week, while the others sell well, they don't sell like mad. I will dissagree with the controller comment though. I personally don't feel the comfort of FPS on 360. I have never been a huge FPS console fan, but if I had to choose, I would chose the PS3 controller. However thats personal choice.

While its true I don't own a 360, my roomate does. I have spent many hours using the system. He owns both Cod4 and Halo3. I choose COD4 on PS3 for the controller alone. The game is solid on both systems but I just find it comfortable in my hands.

I also disagree how you say the if the positions were switched it terms of sales that the same thing would happen. We can look back on the companys consoles history to show just that. Many of the PS best selling titles sold fairly slowly and consistently. The first couple MGS titles for example, Gran Turismo, Devil May Cry. The only real acception might be Final Fantasy. Grand Theft Auto would really be the only acception to that but even that didn't happen until Vice City and San Andreas. In fact with the acception of Madden and the above you don't see many titles from sony near the top in those catagories. What do you see on top though? Halo 2 and 3.

I think you mis understood me about the "if its doesn't do well its nothing", comment. What I was saying is that if the game didnt sell well in the first week, it seems that on the 360 the game won't sell well overall. However many games that didn't sell well in the first week of the PS3 are still selling consistently. I used Uncharted as an example. For the most part looking back on history, Sony owners won't buy a game unless it has a proven track record or at least has a good following over time. However if the game has proven it self, it will sell, and sell well. On the other hand, it appears that xbox owners will get their hands around anything that has a nice looking box cover. Thats not a bad thing either by any means.

Your right, companies want money right away and not over time. However consistent income also helps with development of the next title. I am not really sure where sony is in a "sore spot". They have been doing really well over the last quarter and as I showed you before game sales are on the rise and increasing increadably well. Did you not see EA's sales figures? The Sony brand was the best selling on all 3 platforms, and thats individually, not on all 3. Sonys own titles and gaming partners are also doing really well. Its not 2007 anymore. Games selling overtime is just as good as selling lots now. Money is Money and if its $10 today or $10 next month its still $10. I don't agree with you that companies will shut down or stop making games for systems cause the game doesn't sell a million the first month. In fact we have yet to see that happen. You used Uncharted as an example. Well we have not seen any slow down from David since making the game. They knew and understood that the game would sell slow, but they also knew that because they put in such a huge effort that the game would pay off. We are already seeing this trend on the PS3 this gen. Don't make a game half assed or it won't sell. HAZE anyone? However, make it good and good things will happen. Nobody has left, nobody has been fired. So that reasoning just doesn't work. On the same note, MS knows they don't have to do anything special with Halo 4 to bring in boatloads of money. Sadly it will sell another 2-3 million the first week just cause it says Halo on the box.

What do you mean online gaming is not that huge on PSN? I don't have the NA stats in front of me but it was announced today that Half of the userbase in Japan now are online with their PS3's. NA numbers are close to that. Its doing extremely well. You obviously have not been online with games like Warhawk or Motorstorm in a long while, the games are still very popular. They also just both got updates not long ago which has brought even more people back.

Its no secret ported games to the PS3 were absolute garbage last year. I won't argue that. However that is hardly sonys fault. You also can't blame sony fans for not buying games that really were not worth the money. I mean your fact that it games like Dead Planet and Dead Rising sold millions just furthers my point that 360 owners will buy anything good or bad. I mean critically Lost Planet was not great, Dead Rising was better but far from greatness. Saying that GTA4 out performed the PS3 by leaps and bounds is just rediculus though. Many review sites all said that the performance and feel of the game has an edge to the PS3. COD4 aswell was pretty much right down the middle. I guess if a leap and a bound is the equivalent to equal then it must be true. Your fact that multiplat games outperform on the 360 was news in early to mid 2007, not any more though. Not now that companies understand the system a little better. GTA4 is a great example.

I didn't say that ALL 360 owners only played FPS. I said MOST. You can see that in sales figures. True, every once in a while a game will sneak in there and do better then expected but I won't take back that you give a 360 owner a simple story with simple game play and they will buy it. In fact put a new fancy helmet in there and it will sell millions (Halo 3 anyone?) I also didn't say the 360 didn't have other games, but its hard to argue that the Majority of 360 owners are geared towards one style of game. Luckily you have over 10 Million people in the US with a 360 so games like the ones you listed will still sell a million copies, where the FPS games will sell 2 - 3 million.

I am sorry your offended by the give them a simple story comment offended you. You obviously don't fit into the MOST category I was referring to and thus have no reason to be offended. I am curious though? Did you every play Uncharted? I mean if thats a simple story everyone in the world of gaming is huge amount of trouble. I mean seriously, check out the bonus videos you get after completing the game, there was a lot of work that went into the story of that game. If that story was simple, then every game out there on all consoles is simple. As for resistance, like I said, not a big fan of FPS on consoles. Really I only like COD4 and that was a friend influence.

You are right about one thing though, you could make a garbage FF game and it would sell, you know why though? Cause for the last 15 years FF games have proven themselves over and over again. Even the bad ones are considered to be great. However a game like Halo has already proven that garbage sells with a shiny box around it. The amount of work put into FF over the years will give that company the ability to shoot out garbage and make a profit, yet we have never really seen that in a FF game. Oh you could say the odd one wasn't great, but you can't argue that the amount of quality games to come out of that series is what sells it.

You are right that I have not played all that the 360 has to offer cause I can play it all on my PS3. I have no need, especially now, to go out and get one. Like I said, its a great system, I play the one here all the time, but there is no need for me to go buy what I already can get. I don't feel its the same the other way around, but to each his own.

I don't agree there are just as many non FPS owners and FPS fanatics on the 360. I think sales of games like Halo and Bioshock prove that. The number might be close to even, but its not even. Hence why I use the words like Majority or Most. Meaning more then 50%. In fact thats not cool that you generalize me saying things like that and Referring to it like I am saying ALL. I also agree that FPS sells well on PS3, but so does every other type of Genra, they all sell pretty equal when you look at total sales of games in each catagory. You can't argue that for the 360 however. FPS dominates that across the board. Also I never said Bioshock had no story, so don't put words in my mouth.

To come back to this cause its at the end of your post. And the basic point I made before. Game companies know that games on the 360 will sell a million copies early in their life cycle. Its proven. Which is also why these companies don't put in the extra effort to make the games exceptional. They make them good, but not great, and it doesn't matter. They will sell! Sony developers know that won't happen for them though, unless they go above and beyond. We have already seen that this year too. It really amazes me what 360 owners will pay for, MOST of the games are only OK. Yes many PS3 games are JUST OK, but we don't buy them.


Anyway, I didn't mean for this to turn into a console battle. I tried to respond to all your stuff, but it was sorta all over the place. I tried not to repeat myself or at least go back and add thoughts from your post into mine in the corresponding area. Glad to have a good heated debate though, its been a while. Its fun.
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Old May 26th, 2008, 11:42 PM   #6
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I never ever denied the fact that the chief selling games on 360 were FPS. Anybody can see it. Every console has had strength, MS has always been MS, Sony has always been RPG (although that doesn't seem to be all that true for them at the moment) and Nintendo was always.....well Nintendo. So I'm not seeing how I denied it from looking back at the post, now it feels like your putting words in my mouth.

Then you should probably take the advantage of having a 360 there and trying other games. Rent them and try them out. I'm not trying to seem overly confrontational but how many 360 games have you truly tried out? If it's just Halo 3 and CoD4 then you’re just scratching the systems surface.

Yeah, but that was back in a time when console development cost less, each generation the costs go up thus the need for a return fairly quickly. So I personally don't think that applies as much anymore, which is why in my personal opinion, console development is livelier on the 360. Unless the game is just going to be utter shit from the get-go (licensed game for example) they are assured to make some money developing for the 360. Halo 2 and 3 just happened to be on the Xbox console (it was originally going to be on the MAC) so I think the game would have become a major seller regardless, I think MS just saw the opportunity. So I think that's more on the side of being unfair to MS owners when saying that.

I think what your doing is making some rather large assumptions concerning fan base. What you are describing is gamers not in the know and ones who buy shitty games. Which is on every platform, it's not an MS phenomenon. I'm getting your point JJ and can see where you’re coming from but to me it's sounding too much like fanbase assumptions. When the "hey, that box cover looks cool. I'll play it" happens regardless of system. The difference here is that the 360 has the bigger install base and game purchasers to make those kind of bone headed decisions on game purchases.

Consistent income does help and I wasn't trying to say it isn't (I know you didn't say this but I'm just repeating myself a bit so I don't sound like one of those guys that goes a million sales in a week or fail.) but that quick return is what most companies and publishers prefer. Sure shutting them down or firing may not happen, sure. But there may be more pressure on the company to make craptastic titles to waste their ability just to make that return, or they may not even give them a chance to make a game they really want, or a sequel to that game that didn't perform as well as required (Beyond good and evil folks?). So while consistent over time does work, and I'm happy to see it works for the PS3 but you can't always rely on it. You have to make games with a desire to be a big seller or do extremely well in a shorter period of time, because the moment you don't match up with what a publisher wants (the guy who has all the fricking money and gives you milestone payments on game development) may be hesitant to support your next game that could possibly be good for the industry and instead wants you to make 50 Cent 2: Lets shoot up some foo's in Iraq.

Although to prove a point, Clover Studios (Okami, Viewtiful Joe 1 and 2, God Hand) was closed down for this very reason. Yeah the games were quirky, but because they didn't meet expected sales and had a good following (especially the Viewtiful Joe series, people ate that series up) they closed them down. Now with development costs being even higher, the system you suggest may not be as viable and these games were for a Sony system and they had that "If it has a good following and proven itself, it will sell." Well, Clover proved themselves and got shit canned. So I feel my argument has merit as well.

It's still not enough to compete with MS Live. In terms of ease of use, features, and online gaming Live takes the cake. I have a feeling the PSN will have a bigger surge then now and rival. I personally believed if Sony got more serious about PSN and went balls out with it, you could bring even more people to it. The case today seems to be now when it comes to a game with online play, the people saunter to Live service. PSN is doing well, yes but it could do a lot better.

Actually, in a way it sort of is Sony's fault. Sony's machines have ALWAYS been difficult to develop for; they never seemed to give developers much leeway in terms of developing on the system. Sources say development on the 360 and Wii are a hell of a lot easier. But this is where I end on Sony; there is actually a simple solution. Develop the game on the PS3 first and then port it over to 360, the companies that have done this have reported much better results across the board. So in my eyes, it's about 50-50 on the development thing. Your view on Dead Rising and Lost Planet is purely opinion though, they may not have been the triple A everybody gotta buy this thar game but they were quality titles exclusive to the 360 and sold great. I don't put them in the "we'll buy anything area" I put that in the "We buy good games." which is what they are. I don't see how buying two games that are in the 80's range of review scores as buying anything, that's still considered a great game. Which in every console generation, there is more of those 80 or 70 range games then 90's. So it's not buying everything we see, it's just buying good games. The 360 has more of those range games, as well as games in the 90's then the PS3. There is more on offer, so I think you saying "buying anything" is somewhat false. The 360 simply has more to play.

By GTAIV outperforming the PS3 version leaps and bounds, I meant by sales. The 360 version performed much better sales wise then the PS3. That's what I meant. Sorry I didn't make myself clear.

Again, Halo 3 is really the only huge example of that buying FPS with nothing change mentality. I feel your using this game WAY too much to prove your point. Halo has always been retardedly popular and doesn't take much to make people buy it; other shooters on the list have done more to prove themselves from shooting. (Gears of War, The Darkness, and Bioshock being shooters but doing more to separate themselves and not making just another FPS that does nothing significant like each Halo release.) It's just like Sony gamers being geared solely towards RPG's, each console has that "bread and butter game" that a lot of the fanbase goes toward.

I own a PS3 and Uncharted was one of my favorite games of 07. I enjoyed the story, but it felt like National Treasure or some other pop corn action flick. There's nothing wrong with that, in fact it was pretty awesome but I'm sorry the story was pretty simple. Which is what I felt was the point, making a summer blockbuster game and trying to do it better then the movies.

I'm sorry but "bad ones are considered to be great" should not compute. That's more akin to console loyalty "then proving oneself." The series really hasn't been all that great since the Nintendo era. My favorite FF of the Sony generation was 9, but that's because it was more in the spirit of the ones from the Nintendo era. I've personally felt that the FF series has been derivative for a long time, there are tons of other RPG's out there that I feel out class it, so yes I can argue the point but that's because it's my opinion. Just like it's your opinion on the Halo series being garbage in a pretty box. It's the exact same thing JJ.

I personally feel the 360 has more on offer then the PS3 (my game collection furthers my feelings) but again, to each his own like you said.

Again, I'm not arguing that FPS sells most on the 360. It's why I called it MS "bread and butter genre" each console has one. I also don't remember saying that you said Bioshock had no story; my point was it was more then simple FPS shooting gameplay that elevated Bioshock to the top of the sale charts, that's all I was saying.

How do you know for sure that 360 developers are intentionally half-assing it and then going "Okay, that's enough. Let’s go get lunch." That sounds way too far fetched. No game developer starts out with the intention to make a half assed or bad game, development time, publisher pressure, pressure to release before other big games on the market dictates this. It sounds more to me like you’re putting too much favor in PS3 developers. They really do have to go above and beyond, yes but who are you to say that 360 developers aren't putting the same level of heart and effort into it? I understand your point, 360 developers CAN do this and it can certainly work. But how do you know for sure? For that matter, how do I know for sure? Thus is the mystery of game development.

I wasn't turning it into a console battle either my friend just talking I suppose.
Yeah, sorry about that, I tend to ramble and spread myself out in conversations. I can always count on you for some debates JJ. Also, I'm not trying to belittle your opinions or views when I say "baseless accusations", I'm just a little blunt I suppose. I'm not trying to stir up any bad blood or anything.
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Old May 27th, 2008, 11:13 AM   #7
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I didn't mean to put words in your mouth if thats what it came across as. I was just trying to point out that the heavy hitters on the 360 are FPS games. I agree there are great games out there, its just that when it comes to the biggest sellers historically xbox is a FPS machine. You have a point that with a user base at the 10 Million mark in NA, that it might not be the majority who are buying these games. It just looks like it on paper to me, but I will accept your reasoning.

I didn't mean to make it sound like I have not played other games. My roomate has I think 8 of them, but the majority are launch games that truly lacked anything worthy of playing time, much the many of the PS3 launch games. Other then that he has Forza, and Gears of War. He has a couple others like guitar hero 3, but we prefer Rockband (which I already have). As I stated before, the games are fun and the system is good, it just appeared to me that FPS dominated the console, cause thats what xbox owners want.
Beyond those games, most of the other stuff I touched on with the 360 has a PS3 counterpart like NFS and Burnout. Or I already own on PC like the parts of Orange Box or GRAW for example.


I guess if the companies are expecting to make a huge amount of money then anything but a quick start would be a disappointment. I don't think that the companies expect it though. I think David Jaffe put it best when he said that he never expected Uncharted to fly off the shelves. He knew though that the game would sell over time. He went on to say that games like that or new IP's in general are an acquired taste and sell by word of mouth. Uncharted doesn't still sell well today cause its the only thing available, but because people are seeing that hardly anyone doesn't like it and when they give it a chance fall in love with it. We may see good sales with the sequel though as has been the historical trend with PS owners. I think you would find that if you dug into some of these companies, that they go into new IP's with simular feelings, most are happy to break even early and build a fan base. There is an exception or two of course, but I think its more of a general feeling. I think thats why your already hearing about sequels to games that didn't make sales headlines.

Is console development really livelier on the 360? Not to start a my games are better thread but wouldn't it be fair to say that the upcoming releases on the PS3 seem to be stronger? I realize there are some nice titles coming but, I don't know if I can agree with that statement (at least 2008, early 2009)

I don't believe your example of Clover proved anything.(wow sorry if that sounded harsh, not my intention.) You have to remember too that Capcom shut them down, they didn't end themselves. It was the board of directors at the big company that ended the little company. In fact I believe I read on Joystiq that the head guys at Clover split after the release of God Hand cause they had filled their obligations to Capcom. Plus those clover guys have already opened an independent studio although I can't think of the name at this moment. All this caused speculation that Capcom shut it down cause the big guys left and not cause they were not paying the bills. We have not seen the last of the Clover guys. Their unique experiences will live on. Do you really think they would separate themselves from guaranteed paychecks just to make the same thing?

Agreed MS Live is better the PSN, I have no doubt, but for $50 a year it better be. Although the wide spread reports of the COD4 issues on Live has not done anything but add flame to the "mine is better then yours fanboy BS we see online (not you and me now)" In case you didn't hear COD4 has been having connection issues for the last 4 months or so on Live, games dropping and such. I think some of the issues were corrected lately but other then that and some lag issues its been better overall.

There has been some PS3 issues too, but the companies statement said themselves that the biggest problems have been on Live. Again that was about 2 months ago. I think what the misconception is that PSN has nothing going for it. (not saying its you saying this) For a free service that can offer a quality online experience I have no complaints.

The reason development on 360 is easier is because its the same system that PC's and the original xbox have used for years. Developers didn't have to learn anything new when making the games. I don't agree that the PS2 was nearly as difficult as you are implying, but it was pretty evident that the companies learned and learned well. There are still excellent titles being released on the PS2 today. You are correct in stating that the development on the PS3 has not been easy, but those same developers who say it was hard at first, also have come back and said that they see so much potential in the system. I have not heard many people actually come out and say its extremely difficult. Many have said they had some issues during development but you have to understand that this is new technology. Sony took a chance on something new and we are only seeing stuff that has scratched the surface so far. I mean lets face it, a game like MGS4 would never run or look like the PS3. There isn't the space (unless you made it into 5-6 disks) or the processing power. Hideo Kojima said that himself. I agree though it was sonys fault for trying something new, but in the end it will be worth it. Its like you said, developers found they develop on PS3 first and it even makes the 360 versions look better. They are already learning.

You said that my views on Dead Rising and Lost Planet are purely opinion. Is it not fair to say that you saying they are good games is also in fact opinion. I don't think I said Dead Rising and Lost Planet were buying anything games either. What I did say is that the 360 developers could make anything and it would sell.

While there are things to do on the 360, admitted there are more games, hell there better be with the kind of head start they got, what I am worried about personally is the future of the 360. I realize there seems to be some solid titles coming out, but it would be pretty hard to argue that 2008 and early 2009 go in favor of the PS3, beyond that is anyones guess cause we have not heard much or anything about it yet.

Lets be clear too that if anyone was expecting PS3 to outsell the the 360 on GTA or any multiplat game then they are kidding themselves. Is it cause the 360 version is better. No!, its because the install base is bigger. Its a known fact that the PS3 attach rate for GTA was much better then the 360's. Is a simple fact that there are more people with the systems so more should buy it.

I guess where I disagree with the simple story is in the research and development of that story. Its not like they just said hmmm lets make a game about treasure. Many of the games elements are based on actual written legend which I thought was pretty cool. The way the game was developed to was pretty special. Its basically the first of its kind. I hope they do it again. Again if you read what I said about David Jaffee (creator of Uncharted), it was never there intention to make it a blockbuster game on day one, it was a game that would take time to be loved and game 2 would hopefully be the bigger movement.

The only big difference between Halo and FF when it comes to your opinion and mine is that you yourself said that the Halo franchies didn't do it for you. Your opinion is your opinion when it comes to what you like and don't like. The biggest difference though is that each of these FF games gives you hours and hours of RPG experiences and you won't get a game that can be beat in 4 or 5 hours. Lots of thought and development has been put into each and every one of the FF games. On the other hand Halo 3 was slapped together pretty quickly in terms of game development and didn't do much to further the series. It was one of the biggest complaints of the game, it was the same thing just in a newer box. However the FF games have continued or brought new stories each time out of the box, giving fans something to enjoy. For me 7 was probably the best, and 9 might fall in the top 5. Everyone has an opinion, but I still don't see how comparing Halo to FF is even fair when it comes to history and quality. I mean FF has had more then double great titles then Halo has titles. Thats like saying National Treasure is equal to Starwars.

If I said 360 developers are intentionally half-assing it then I am sorry, I didnt mean it that way. What I was trying to say was they could half-ass it and they would still do well. Although when you look at Halo 3 you almost wonder if your statement that no game developer starts out with that intention..LOL jk jk You see I feel this way cause we have already seen it. Not so much lately, but definitely early. We see the same thing on Wii, but the difference is there that the Wii community doesn't pay for it, but traditionally the MS people have (not everyone). Its nothing against the owners, its just that MS gamers are pretty hardcore for the most part, its hard to deny that. If MS pushes a game publicly and does advertising its amazing the kind of following it will get. Even if its not great in the end.

Final thoughts, I have not considered this to be a you vs me debate. I just realized how it was looking to others if they were reading. Its a great discussion and one that is taking me a freaking hour to respond too lol. We have way to many topics to cover in one post LOL. Also its all good about the post, I think we have some point by point discussion going on now. Lastly, being blunt is fine, I am not offended. One mans baseless accusations are another mans thesis. Looking forward to your response.
(Had to shorten, was over 10,000 characters lol)
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Old May 27th, 2008, 03:27 PM   #8
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When i move up to ps3 this will be easily one of the first games i get, im sure you guys are pumped big time!
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Old May 28th, 2008, 03:23 PM   #9
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Just read the following!

2K Games have spoken up about BioShock on PS3 and reconfirmed that the game is due for October 2008. The game will have all the standard port stuff with the additional DLC and patches from the previous 360 version. However, Christoph Hartmann, president of 2K, assures us there's more coming: "Over the coming months we look forward to revealing the new features and content that will make this a must-have game for its new audience, as well as for those who enjoyed it on the other platforms."

There you go goodman, PS3 purchase by October lol.
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Old Jun 12th, 2008, 04:42 PM   #10
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Crikey, without wanting to get too involved in the console wars, which always seem a bit too like two men shouting at each other across a supermarket, I have to say that Bioshock is an amazing concept of a game and it's good that more people will get to play it. Of course, I played it on the superior platform; the PC!
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