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[Spank-A-Thon]

Great post Meryl! Allow me to add my own comments.

Originally Posted by merylsilverburg

Ah but you see, that's in England and it's normal for those terms to be used. I mean, if I were to go to England and have someone say that to me, I wouldn't be offended since it's a common term...nothing to get worked up about.
But, here in the States, there aren't many people who use "hon" or "love" or "babe" as non-sexual. Older people, yes (like, the other day, an older woman referred to me as "Hon" but that didn't disturb me) but not younger ones, unless they're brought up differently. A lot of men in the States tend to use "babe" as in "Damn, you're hot! I want some of that". Or "honey" or "sweet cheeks" or "baby", etc. Yes, it's true that couples use it but that's 'cause they're couples...they're using these as pet names with each other.
But as I said before, younger people use it at times, but it depends on the person. If the person, male or female, use "hon" or "babe", you'll just have to see what the person is like...whether they're coming onto you or something.

So basically, a lot of what is deemed acceptable behaviour is down to your environment. For example, in many parts of Africa is the norm for women to be always topless whilst that would be considered unacceptable in the UK. I would imagine (although I could be wrong) that in Japan it would be dishonourable to address a man as "love" like women here 'Oop North do. Its obvious that societal norms dictate how behaviour is interperated and thus is acceptance.

Originally Posted by merylsilverburg

Yes, well...women tend to be more cruel, heh.

Yet men can be equally cruel in different way. Or as I prefer to think of it, if you're an arse - you're an arse irrespective of sex, colour, race or any other way of classifying a person!

Originally Posted by merylsilverburg

Uh..well...I'm not overly-sensitive but if I were to get a wolf-whistle or a "Hey baby", I'd say I would be stunned/irritated. That's because women don't really know whether these remarks are actual genuine compliments or if these guys are just saying it just to "get some". Women do have to protect themselves. Of course, there are dumb women who fall for it and get screwed over, but that's another story.
For me, I'd say the best compliment would be to get a "look" (not like, bulging eyes and very obvious movement of eyes, but more a side/hidden glance)...not actually a voiced out opinion...but that's just me though, everyone's different.

Of course a lot of male behaviour is almost inherently genetic in that over the years men have been expected to wolf-whistle, whilst women have expected to hear it - that of course doesn't mean it's correct or acceptable. But again, due to my environment a wolf-whistle is relatively inoffensive compared to some offerings I have heard. I guess it's hard for me to understand the significance of such things given a) my sex, and b) my environment.

Originally Posted by merylsilverburg

OMG, how friggin' true!! Women do take control of the reins in a relationship (with the exception of those balanced, "We're equal" couples). Men are so casual (at times) and women are more sly and/or cunning. Seriously, I couldn't agree more. I haven't seen a couple in a while where the man is actually the "man" of the relationship.
In the restaurant where I work, there's about 88% of the couples that come in where the women dominate. It's always: "Get this!" "Get that!" "Order this! I want this!" "Don't order that, I don't like that dish!" "Don't get that, it's too fattening and I'm on a diet!" "Get a carry-out box!" "Tell her I want to order that...GO ON! Tell her!"......hey, why don't they goddamn do it for themselves if they're so great?! And then, there are some where the guy *tries* to take charge and the girl is like "Go sit down, I'll order!" and the guys sit down!! And it ends up the chick orders something the guy doesn't like but OH! They eat it anyway in fear of the wrath of their so-called "significant" other. What the f*ck is that about? And these are the so-called "sweet feminine girls"...please...they're such losers they have to get a guy where they can use as a toy since they can't get someone with real opinions and a mind of their own. Sure, it may be "no big deal" to some but I have to see and hear it everyday, so I get very irritated...especially since I can't stand those women to begin with.

Uhh, I don't know how to reply to this other than this had me laughing for a while!

Originally Posted by merylsilverburg

Yes but there are times when it's so the guy can have an ego or confidence boost. It makes them feel "needed" and "smart". And who says that females don't ask guys to help them on purpose so they can also "repay" the sexual favors?

This was in reference to the DIY comment - and I loved your closing comment! However, it should be duly noted that this DIY comment was meant in jest as an attempt to lighten the mood...

- S

[Spank-A-Thon]

Firstly, great thread Mena - it's been a while since we've had a meaty topic here!

Originally Posted by kupoartist

Women are constantly competing to gain the attention of some male out there. They wear certain clothes, walk a certain way, wear a certain perfume all for this reason. Erm.. yeah, so basically my point is that in this respect there is equality - except that far, far more women try to catch attention like this. For every guy who is concerned with his appearance there are two girls. Actually, scrap that because probably about 95% of the females I know who're around my age are concerned in these ways and maybe 25% of guys are. Also, females go far and beyond what males do. What is the male equivilent of waxing your legs?

Shaving your balls...? Ummm, anyway - equality is the point. Men and women try to attract each others attention in different ways. But I do think your statement could be construted as insulting to women by suggesting their beauty regime is dictated to them because of men. Maybe some women simply like to feel good for themselves? I appreciate where you're coming from Kupo - but it does come across as somewhat sexist due to your very first line...

Originally Posted by kupoartist

Who owns the Porn shop and the seedy bar? What is the ratio of Men / Women on the executive board of Interflora? How can any of these things be counted near the sort of power that male dominated governments and corporations wield? I don't see as if any of these acts, even cumulatively equal any power at all.

Kupo, equality and power is not simply about money, or who runs a country and so forth - there are many more subtle nuances. Allow me to post a hypothetical situation.

I'm President of the USA and I'm having problems with Cuba. I discover that my wife, the First Lady, has been having an affair. This devestates me, I'm angry, I make bad decisions and the result is I affect the lives of millions.

Okay, this is a really far-fetched situation but as the "most powerful man in the world" do I really have power? I may be able to determine the lifestyle of millions of people, but my wife has the power to make me happy - or even worse, make me sad.

My real life girlfriend said something to me a couple of months ago. Her words were "It's scary how much you make me happy - but what's even more scary is how you have the power to make me unhappy". That really hit home. I have a better job and earn more money that my girlfriend and that could be viewed as power - but its not. She pointed out that we both have the power to make each other unhappy; and that to me is real power.

Originally Posted by kupoartist

Interesting fact (and thats genuinely not sarcastic ^^) but how does this demonstrate power? A lot of your examples talk about sex or seduction, but I see that more of a male weakness than a female power.

As mentioned before, the DIY comment was made in jest - sarcasm is very hard to convey in writing I guess.

Originally Posted by kupoartist

And one more thing - an interesting fact that Meryl's long (I mean, probably the longest post I've ever seen a forum) reminded me of. It is a socially accepted "fact" that women talk far more than men even to the point where "women talk to much". Yet, it's a scientific fact that men talk more than women. Men dominate mixed sex conversations and are far more likely to interupt females than males. If this conversation were in real life, Meryl wouldn't have been able to finish saying what she just did ^^ . That is the real male dominance in practice, the kind of thing that leads to what Mena experienced.

You should meet my friend Max, once she get's going - NO ONE can get a word in! Lol...

- S

[Spank-A-Thon]

Sorry for the triple post but otherwise this would have been one amazingly long post!!! Anyway, this next bit is simply some light-hearted humour. There is some truth in it, but sterotypes have to have some element of truth....

Anyway, enjoy and DON'T TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY!!!

If you stay home and do the housework...you're a pansy.
If you work too hard...there's never any time for her.
If you don't work enough...you're a good-for-nothing bum.

If she has a boring repetitive job with low pay...this is exploitation.
If you have a boring repetitive job with low pay.....you should get off your lazy behind and find something better.

If you get a promotion ahead of her.....that is favouritism.
If she gets a job ahead of you......it's equal opportunity.

If you mention how nice she looks......it's sexual harassment.
If you keep quiet..........it's male indifference.

If you cry............you're a wimp.
If you don't.........you're an insensitive bastard.

If you make a decision without consulting her.........you're a chauvinist.
If she makes a decision without consulting you......she's a liberated woman.

If you ask her to do something she doesn't enjoy.......that's domination.
If SHE asks you.........it's a favour.

If you appreciate the female form and frilly underwear......you're a pervert.
If you don't..............you're gay.

If you like a woman to shave her legs and keep in shape...............you're sexist.
If you don't..................you're unromantic.

If you try to keep yourself in shape................you're vain.
If you don't.................you're a slob!

If you buy her flowers.............you're after something.
If you don't....................you're not thoughtful.

If you're proud of your achievements........you're full of yourself.
If you don't....................you're not ambitious.

If she has a headache............she's tired.
If you have a headache.............you don't love her anymore.

If you want it too often.........you're oversexed.
If you don't................there must be someone else.

- S

[kupoartist]

Originally Posted by Spank-A-Thon

... it would be dishonourable to address a man as "love" like women here 'Oop North do.

Ah yes, a valid point this one. Social attitudes change between societies. Incidently, I don't think the whole getting called "babe", "darlin'" and the rest applies Do'n South. Probably something to do with us being emotionless southern types ^^

Originally Posted by Spank-A-Thon

But I do think your statement could be construted as insulting to women by suggesting their beauty regime is dictated to them because of men. Maybe some women simply like to feel good for themselves?

Well, I was kind of copying your exact words (sorry about that, imitation is pretty lame ^^) so I suppose I could say that your original statement could have the same implication for men... and to be honest I stand by my original statement. The "femanine need" that some girls have to spend so much time and money is, to me, a product of social conditioning. Or perhaps it's the other way round and therefore these things are humanly innate but repressed in males by society. I guess that's part of my weird idea that the human gender gap is self-constructed and that naturally, men and women have far more in common than society allows them... whatever. It's probably best if I just shut up and let people's eyebrows lower a bit ^^

Originally Posted by Spank-A-Thon

Okay, this is a really far-fetched situation but as the "most powerful man in the world" do I really have power? I may be able to determine the lifestyle of millions of people, but my wife has the power to make me happy - or even worse, make me sad.

I guess the reality is that there are many types of power. I still personally believe that good old fashioned Frankie Goes to Hollywood Brand "Power of Love" has only finite, small scale effects though. It's the kind of stuff in the foundations that has very little effect on the larger picture. Perhaps that just shows a lot about my values or my apparent inability to form relationships or something. Meh.

[Deathwatchz]

One of the things i find so interesting about this whole topic is that you could state almost anything you want concerning either sex, wether it be double-standards, common practices, or the total oddities, and apply it to whatever is being discussed. There are so many variables in the human race that you can't really apply anything to anyone in general without knowing them, because it is all a biased reaction. Yes, it is commonplace for the current day american male to catcall, but this applies to men between the ages of 15-50, and only covers about 50% of them anyway. (making up the stats, just trying to state my point) I don't really like taking sides in this matter, because i think it is close-mided for me to hold common practice against someone who deserves respect. I try and be as sexist as I am racist, not at all.

On the other hand, as for the reason this was brought up, I do feel that those men who take matter too far, and are making derogatory comments in means of intimidation, probably out of spite for some action made against them by some woman in the past, are causing totally unnecessary strife. They are taking out their anger on all women, and unfortunately distressing people like poor mena here. As for these bastards, they should be treated like rapists in central america. (rape a woman there, and your D*@K gets turned into string cheese) I think that these people simply take their efforts too far either because they are simply doing it to cause distress, or they are the type who don't want to hear "no". They have made multiple attempts to catcall, and have failed in these attempts, so they continue in their endeavors, yet their efforts are corrupted with bitterness. Some guys like that might have had to deal with nothing but teases, who lead them on and leave them hanging, but i still dont think it justifies their actions. O well, nuff sed.

[Redpyramidhead]

You people are impossible. I am angry again. My second post was completely ignored and ppl continued with useless bickering back and forth. Look it is THIS SIMPLE! ALL HUMAN BEINGS WHICH INCLUDES BOTH SEXES have a complete and utter disregard for respect of eachother and it needs a lot of help if we are to grow as human beings!!! Women and Men are meant to fit together and create a beautiful spiritual bond in my opinion to fulfill eachothers lives... complete eachother. I think this is important. A sexual relationship is a thing to be cherished in itself and sought deeply for all of its pleasures. On the other hand, a platonic relationship is supposed to be all that it can offer as well so we learn from eachother. And at the same time, if you ever find a special someone I think that they should be your best friend.

Anywayz, with all that said, be proud of who you are. Don't feel bad for what other members of your sex and the human race have done. Just stand up and make a difference. Be a real man and be a real woman. Be a real human. PEACE BROTHERS AND SISTERS!!!

BTW, I whistle or smile occasionally to girls walking by. I do not mean anything diragotory by it.

_RED_ stuff

[merylsilverburg]

Originally Posted by kupoartist

And one more thing - an interesting fact that Meryl's long (I mean, probably the longest post I've ever seen a forum) reminded me of. It is a socially accepted "fact" that women talk far more than men even to the point where "women talk to much". Yet, it's a scientific fact that men talk more than women. Men dominate mixed sex conversations and are far more likely to interupt females than males. If this conversation were in real life, Meryl wouldn't have been able to finish saying what she just did ^^ . That is the real male dominance in practice, the kind of thing that leads to what Mena experienced.

Hehe, I realized I went a little overboard there. ^^;;; Sorry. But anyway, maybe it's true that if I were in a conversation with mixed sex I wouldn't be able to finish my conversation. But, it seems to me, a lot of women do interrupt quite a bit...and women are really opinionated or can't stop once they start. For example, if I were saying what I said above, I'd probably would try to go on even if someone interrupted me...since I'm already on the roll and in the middle of the discussion, there's no way you can stop me...unless you're louder than me or you slap me down, but that'd be just plain rude. But I'm not arguing that males may dominate/interrupt the conversation if a women were speaking. Since men tend to use their loud voices to overpower a women's, it may be possible that the female's voice gets drowned out. But heh...who said that women can't get all shrilly and high-pitched which would subdue the men?

Originally Posted by Spank-A-Thon

So basically, a lot of what is deemed acceptable behaviour is down to your environment. For example, in many parts of Africa is the norm for women to be always topless whilst that would be considered unacceptable in the UK. I would imagine (although I could be wrong) that in Japan it would be dishonourable to address a man as "love" like women here 'Oop North do. Its obvious that societal norms dictate how behaviour is interperated and thus is acceptance.

Yeah that's most likely it. But I mean, I think going topless even in the States would be unacceptable, of course, unless you're in a nude colony/beach or something. But that's beside the point. What I'm saying here is that I agree; it's probably the whole difference in culture and how everyone is raised.

Originally Posted by Spank-A-Thon

Yet men can be equally cruel in different way. Or as I prefer to think of it, if you're an arse - you're an arse irrespective of sex, colour, race or any other way of classifying a person!

How true!

Originally Posted by Spank-A-Thon

This was in reference to the DIY comment - and I loved your closing comment! However, it should be duly noted that this DIY comment was meant in jest as an attempt to lighten the mood...

- S

Oh! I'm sorry, I had no idea your DIY comment was just for laughs. ^^;; Yeah, it's hard to tell sarcasm online...

BTW Spank, your "Contradiction List" was very enjoyable and honestly had some truth in it!

Originally Posted by Deathwatchz

On the other hand, as for the reason this was brought up, I do feel that those men who take matter too far, and are making derogatory comments in means of intimidation, probably out of spite for some action made against them by some woman in the past, are causing totally unnecessary strife. They are taking out their anger on all women, and unfortunately distressing people like poor mena here. As for these bastards, they should be treated like rapists in central america. (rape a woman there, and your D*@K gets turned into string cheese) I think that these people simply take their efforts too far either because they are simply doing it to cause distress, or they are the type who don't want to hear "no". They have made multiple attempts to catcall, and have failed in these attempts, so they continue in their endeavors, yet their efforts are corrupted with bitterness. Some guys like that might have had to deal with nothing but teases, who lead them on and leave them hanging, but i still dont think it justifies their actions. O well, nuff sed.

Deathwatchz, you're not wrong. Thanks for bringing up this point because I actually forgot to think of this part of the topic. What you said is very true. Which is probably why a lot of women tend to act "defensive" when encountered with such behavior. Guys do tend to take things too far when rejected and start acting in brasher ways to gain the "respect" or "attention" of the woman they're seeking or after. Of course, a lot of these guys are usually maniacs with some serious problems thinking they can get away with what they do. So, Mena being harassed like this by these sort of guys is completely and utterly wrong.

Originally Posted by Redpyramidhead

You people are impossible. I am angry again. My second post was completely ignored and ppl continued with useless bickering back and forth. Look it is THIS SIMPLE! ALL HUMAN BEINGS WHICH INCLUDES BOTH SEXES have a complete and utter disregard for respect of eachother and it needs a lot of help if we are to grow as human beings!!!

Red, calm down! I don't see anyone bickering/arguing on here. Maybe there were a bit of some "heat" going on in the beginning (like the first page), but I'm thinking that Spank, kupo, and myself (which I'm assuming you're reffering to ) are just discussing the whole "male and female relationship" but nothing more. We all have our differences, our opinions, and I'm sure we all respect it. If we were truly bickering and arguing, I'm sure it wouldn't be as calm/light-hearted as what appeared above (smilies, NO CAPS, and so on). And I perfectly understood what you're saying Red (even your second post) but you know...human beings are probably never going to get better with time in this day and age...yes, it sounds cynical but it's true I'm afraid.

[goodman]

I think there is one thing we can all agree upon, no matter what, and that is that Happy Doughnut has been a big part of this forum for a good while, so the thought of her not being a part of it would be really tough, so lets do our best to show understanding and appreciation for her in anything involving her, especially life situations...

[Deathwatchz]

i dunno goodman, i dont think that the topic had her so mad at us that she's gonna leave, and i think that the standards of everyone here are high enough that we dont need to be reminded to support our brethren.. I just think everyone got off topic a little and started discussing man vs. woman 4 a few. hope it didnt really get to her THAT bad tho....

[goodman]

I see she posted in another forum yesterday, which is good. Hang in there HD, i think i can speak for us all when i say we want you to be happy, and although i could interject a funny in there i wont, but have a good summer and get rdy for the college world, life is unfolding as we speak...

[Gadzoox]

Once I was driving past a constuction site and there were a bunch of old worker men sitting and having lunch and when I drove past them I wolf whistled at them out the window. They seemed to like it...